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Old 01-17-2012, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Rams/Browns trade just makes to much sense.

Browns get their Franchise guy. Rams get their #1 receiver and more picks.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by djp View Post
see it more likely that the Rams just take Kalil now that they have Jeff Fisher, not wanting to leave him to Minnesota at #3 after trading down. Minnesota can then use the #3 pick as the hot spot and still get Morris Claiborne/whoever a few picks later. Cleveland would want to move up, not wanting Washington/Miami to get the pick in front of them, risking being left at the altar.

That is, if the Btrowns really like RG3 that much. And I realize that this benefits my team, so take it with a grain of salt.
Mike Holmgren loves Seneca Wallace more than his parents and RG3 is like Seneca Wallace x1000 on steroids.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Let's say Washington scoops up Flynn in FA, who does Cleveland have to be afraid of to jump them in that scenario? STL or Minnesota won't take RGIII, and
Miami is the only team with an even remote shot at getting up there, but the cost will be much steeper, and will STL or Minn want to move down that far and miss out on Kalil or Blackmon?


I mean, maybe they trade up because when your talking about your franchise QB for the next 13 years why risk it, but if Washington gets out of the picture I'm not sure they have to jump up those 2 spots.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
I also doubt we would have to give up the ATL first round pick to move up two spots, probably only our second rounder and maybe a future third.
Are you forgetting the Washington Redskins, Miami Dolphins & Seattle Seahawks ? Not to mention another team who could surprise and sneak into the mix ? If the Browns want RG3 they are going to have to compete with other teams looking to get up to 2 or 3. So that 2nd first rounder will possibly need to be in play (or a 2013 first rounder). Why would St. Louis trade back with you for 4, 37 & a future 3rd if one of those other teams is offering this years 1 & 2 + a future #1 ?

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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
Lots to do, but we have a ridiculously large amount of cap space and there really is no reason not to go wild in this free agent class.
Reason A : Washington Redskins.

Reason B : Philadelphia Eagles and the so called dream team.

Spending wildly in free agency doesn't equal wins. Spending wisely is the ticket. Look at my 49ers as an example of wise spending in free agency...we had a need at corner, so we spent a 3rd on Culliver and a couple bags of flaming hot cheetos on Rodgers. Philly traded for DRC and spent the cost of a small tropical island on Aso.

Cleveland should use some of that cap room giving extensions to players of merit and look to add pieces from the free agent market that are of good value and fit in with the scheme and vision of this team. Perhaps you splurge on a player or two....depending on who they are.

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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
I think Matt Flynn plays a large role in the RGIII sweepstakes. If Cleveland signs him then obviously you don't have to jump into the top 4 picks to get Griffin. You'd probably have to jump in front of Washington though, and Washington might want to trade up to secure him (much like people are talking about the Browns doing right now), but how high would be high enough? The Dolphins are the other threat, but of course they'd have to pay the most being farther down in the order.

If Flynn goes to Washington then you'd think that Cleveland would be much more likely to call the Rams/Vikings bluff and let RGIII slide to them without a trade up. Miami would have to give up a boatload to move up into the top 3 picks.

I also look at it like this:

-There are really 3 elite players the Rams could use at the top of the draft: Kalil, Claiborne, and maybe Blackmon.
-Kalil and Claiborne you have to figure at this point are going to be their top 2 targets (I think Claiborne will be considered BPA over Blackmon on most teams' boards).
-If they trade down to #4 then they should get one of those guys.
-If they have to trade down to #6 or #8/9 then they'll have to settle for a 2nd tier guy like Kirkpatrick, Coples, or someone else.

I think the top 5 picks are a lot more valuable in this draft than say picks 6-10 for a lot of teams. There really is Luck/Kalil/Claiborne/Griffin then Blackmon/Kirkpatrick/Coples/Richardson and then a bit of a gap right now it seems. This factor might make the Browns not have to pay so much to trade with the Rams compared to Miami or Washington. Then again someone like Kirkpatrick could really rise and screw this theory up, there's a lot of time between now and late April.
I said something along these lines earlier.

However, the Rams need to play it close to the chest and they likely will. They will likely try to get the most out of Cleveland that they possibly can and use other offers on the table to their advantage/as leverage.

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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Let's say Washington scoops up Flynn in FA, who does Cleveland have to be afraid of to jump them in that scenario? STL or Minnesota won't take RGIII, and
Miami is the only team with an even remote shot at getting up there, but the cost will be much steeper, and will STL or Minn want to move down that far and miss out on Kalil or Blackmon?


I mean, maybe they trade up because when your talking about your franchise QB for the next 13 years why risk it, but if Washington gets out of the picture I'm not sure they have to jump up those 2 spots.
Seattle is a threat to trade up. They sit outside the top 10 yes, but it is not out of the realm that they sacrifice a bunch of picks to get ahead of Cleveland. Last offseason they made there attempts to fix the line, get a #1 receiver and add another tight end...once they resign Lynch all that remains on offense is to get a QB. I could see them dipping back into the free agent market to add depth and some defensive pieces and move all their chips in to landing RG3. It may have to be by way of Minnesota as St.Louis may not want to assist them in landing a QB.

But if Cleveland sits still at 4 they could get screwed by Miami or Seattle making that move. Then they get stuck with a lesser prospect.

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Old 01-18-2012, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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The Browns have two firsts and a early second so if they trade #5 and #37 to the Rams they would still be able to get weapons for Griffin if they got him. They could even trade up again and get Richardson if he falls to about #10. If not they can get Kendall Wright (which would be best case scenario) or Michael Floyd, Sanu or Jeffery. Plus there are some top WR free agents so they could get Richardson by trading a 2013 1st round pick and get a Vincent Jackson in free agency.

Now an offense of:

Griffin - Richardson - V.Jackson - Little

The Browns offense would be explosive then! And this is a very possible situation as well.
It's sooo very unlikely that'll happen though. Just about every team in the league will be willing to give Vincent Jackson the big money if he decides to leave the Chargers and I doubt he'd pick the Browns out of all them. Specally since he's 99% likely to be signed before the Draft. Anytime you count on stocking your roster up with big time free agents your doomed to fail cuz it's unpredictable not to mention that sometimes even when you DO win in free agency it can work out completely different from how you expected (for examples ask the Eagles this year or the Redskins who've depended on FA for years and never got anywhere). Not saying the Browns shouldn't pick RG3 but they need to be smart so they can load up on talent later in the Draft. I mean honestly I think Washington will pick up their franchise QB in free agency since their not afraid to throw money around (Matt Flynn or POSSIBLY Peyton Manning) and i'm not sold that Seattle and Miami are convinced they need a QB bad enuff to give a kings ransom for one even RG3 so Cleveland may be able to sit at #4 and get RG3 if this offseason works out just right for them.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand how there can be trade rumors already for this guy even before Free Agency.

Remember, FA changes a lot of what teams can do in the draft. If Cleveland gets Matt Flynn, for example, there phone will ring off the hook.

Also, I'm not really buying into the hype of RG III. He had a magnificant college football season, but already so many people are rushing to compare him to Mike VIck.

Guys, Mike Vick is not a great NFL QB. Griffen is a very risky pick in my opinion. Very small, 6'2 220. Has been in a spread offense, that makes easy reads and throws.

There is too much hype surrounding him. Before him winning the Heisman, he was a 16-25 pick range. Now he's a top 5 lock?
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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6'2"/220 isn't that small. That's pretty average. Andy Dalton is that. Aaron Rodgers was that when he came out of Cal. The thing is Griffin is listed at that but in reality might be 6'2" or shorter and closer to 210. Whatever he is, he's skinny at that weight and can stand to add a few pounds so he can be more durable. Vick was a very raw passer coming out of college. Elite speed and athleticism, cannon arm, there really weren't any athletes like him at QB. He was never a pocket passer or viewed as one. Griffin I think can be a pocket passer like Donovan McNabb with his skills as a passer coming out of college. Incredible accuracy on downfield throws, has a great arm and is a little taller than Vick, more of a polished passer (though still raw). Vick never threw for 4000 yards in college like Griffin either, granted his offensive system wasn't nearly as stat friendly as the one Art Briles uses.
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand how there can be trade rumors already for this guy even before Free Agency.

Remember, FA changes a lot of what teams can do in the draft. If Cleveland gets Matt Flynn, for example, there phone will ring off the hook.

Also, I'm not really buying into the hype of RG III. He had a magnificant college football season, but already so many people are rushing to compare him to Mike VIck.

Guys, Mike Vick is not a great NFL QB. Griffen is a very risky pick in my opinion. Very small, 6'2 220. Has been in a spread offense, that makes easy reads and throws.

There is too much hype surrounding him. Before him winning the Heisman, he was a 16-25 pick range. Now he's a top 5 lock?


Where have you seen RGIII compared to Vick? If you can find just one place I'd love to see it.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Why would the Browns take him? Give McCoy another year. If he sucks then draft a QB in 2013 the QB class is deeper next year anyways.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Why would the Browns take him? Give McCoy another year. If he sucks then draft a QB in 2013 the QB class is deeper next year anyways.
The decision is already in on McCoy. He's not the answer. If they like RG3, then they should try to get him now. Who knows what the circumstances will be when the Browns are on the clock next year.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:46 AM    (permalink
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If he sucks then draft a QB in 2013 the QB class is deeper next year anyways.
People say this every year.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:25 AM    (permalink
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People say this every year.
And they're right 50% of the time!
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:51 AM    (permalink
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but 50% of the time, they are wrong every time
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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The decision is already in on McCoy. He's not the answer. If they like RG3, then they should try to get him now. Who knows what the circumstances will be when the Browns are on the clock next year.
Once McCoy is cut, replaced, or Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur say it, I will believe it, but let's not pretend like we know wtf is going on when we obviously do not.

We are all entitled to give our opinions, but presenting your opinion as fact is asinine.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Condescension is not going to help convince me. I'm aware of the existence of free agency, thanks though, WB.

Assuming we are active in free agency, I would still rather roll with McCoy this year and move up (if needed) in the 2013 draft for a QB if needed.

I prefer not to bring a rookie QB into the worst offense since the team came back in '99. Get some pieces at other positions this year, go after Tyler Wilson next year.
The trouble with this theory is that by adding supporting talent, you don't necessarily get to draft top 5, you can never guarantee 4 wins and 6 wins takes you to possibly #10 in the draft and trading down from there becomes much more difficult and far more expensive. Your saying, waiting till next year which could cost them the #10 pick vs this year which may only cost them a 2nd rounder or the 22nd pick in round 1, makes sense. I see no sense in it.

Even if a rookie QB has success in year 1, it usually takes 3 to 4 years before they can be called a finished product capable of taking a team all the way to the Super Bowl, every year you put off drafting a potential franchise QB, you are adding a year to that 3 or 4 year period, that's an awful long wait for us Cleveland fans.

Then there is the strong possibility that if the Browns gamble on McCoy and he fails, that Holmgren and the whole management team is fired within a few years and I doubt our management team is willing to take that risk unless they are absolutely positive that McCoy is the answer. You have to remember that continual losing does lead to empty stadiums and a huge loss in revenue and few owners ever put up with that fact.

The coaching staff will make the decision on McCoy not another year of playing, if they believe strongly that he can develop into a solid starter, you won't hear about Cleveland moving up for a QB, but if they turn thumbs down on McCoy, then they trade up at whatever the cost or sign Flynn. They aren't going to stand pat unless their belief in McCoy is absolute.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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The trouble with this theory is that by adding supporting talent, you don't necessarily get to draft top 5, you can never guarantee 4 wins and 6 wins takes you to possibly #10 in the draft and trading down from there becomes much more difficult and far more expensive. Your saying, waiting till next year which could cost them the #10 pick vs this year which may only cost them a 2nd rounder or the 22nd pick in round 1, makes sense. I see no sense in it.
I feel like we have this discussion every year in the team forum (since our QB always sucks). I disagree; in my opinion, you build the team first so you can place a young QB in a situation that gives him every opportunity to succeed. It's hard enough being a young QB on a good team, let alone a team like ours.

Just look at how many "good" QBs there are in this league...maybe 15? And that's with the dozen or so graduating each year. If there are 15 "good" QBs out of hundreds that try, it must be pretty freaking hard...why not make it as easy as possible?

If we get the talent in place this season and we are just a QB away for the 2013 draft, then trade the #1, #2, and a future #1 and get that **** done. Until we get to that point, I'd rather avoid another Tim Couch situation.

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Even if a rookie QB has success in year 1, it usually takes 3 to 4 years before they can be called a finished product capable of taking a team all the way to the Super Bowl, every year you put off drafting a potential franchise QB, you are adding a year to that 3 or 4 year period, that's an awful long wait for us Cleveland fans.
I agree, it can take 3 or 4 years, yet we want to be done with Colt after 2. Again, he has very little support around him, and I'm not saying he's the answer, but until there is a WR with legitimate NFL talent and somebody that blocks on the right side, what's the point in bringing in someone else? So they can have their confidence destroyed when they are leveled by T-Sizzle and Harrison/Woodley while their WRs drop the most passes in the NFL?

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Then there is the strong possibility that if the Browns gamble on McCoy and he fails, that Holmgren and the whole management team is fired within a few years and I doubt our management team is willing to take that risk unless they are absolutely positive that McCoy is the answer. You have to remember that continual losing does lead to empty stadiums and a huge loss in revenue and few owners ever put up with that fact.
The stadium keeps filling up every season for the past decade+ of misery and ineptitude, why would next year be the tipping point? No way do we turn over the entire FO unless we go 2-14 or worse.

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The coaching staff will make the decision on McCoy not another year of playing, if they believe strongly that he can develop into a solid starter, you won't hear about Cleveland moving up for a QB, but if they turn thumbs down on McCoy, then they trade up at whatever the cost or sign Flynn. They aren't going to stand pat unless their belief in McCoy is absolute.
I don't agree with that. If it makes sense to make a move they will, but they won't just draft or sign somebody that they don't believe in just because they aren't sold on McCoy. You don't go out and say, "hey, I don't really like Flynn/RGIII, but lets bring him in because I don't like Colt either." What sense does that make?
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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I feel like we have this discussion every year in the team forum (since our QB always sucks). I disagree; in my opinion, you build the team first so you can place a young QB in a situation that gives him every opportunity to succeed. It's hard enough being a young QB on a good team, let alone a team like ours.

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Well, no NFL GM's agree with your theory, they all go by the 'Golden Rule', never pass on a potential franchise QB when you have an opportunity to get one. Miami didn't follow this rule and Atlanta got Ryan. Atlanta has made the playoffs 4 years in a row and where is Miami?
Just look at how many "good" QBs there are in this league...maybe 15? And that's with the dozen or so graduating each year. If there are 15 "good" QBs out of hundreds that try, it must be pretty freaking hard...why not make it as easy as possible?

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See the above quote. Look at Miami and you see the results of putting it off. Look at all the teams with the 1st pick in the draft who got their franchise QB's and have won Super Bowls recently.
Detroit was 0-16 with zero talent but took Stanford #1 in the draft and now are a serious Super Bowl contender for years to come. You don't wait, you strike while the iron is hot.
If we get the talent in place this season and we are just a QB away for the 2013 draft, then trade the #1, #2, and a future #1 and get that **** done. Until we get to that point, I'd rather avoid another Tim Couch situation.

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So how is the 2nd rounder this year or the 22nd pick get us that much closer, giving up the bundle you are suggesting would put us in a position where we have practically zero talent around a QB with little hope to contend even with a solid QB.
San Diego failed with Leaf and drafted Rivers, Indy failed with George and drafted Peyton and I could go on and on. If a team fails when drafting a QB, you simply draft another one till you get it right no matter how many times you fail. There is simply no other way to be successful in the NFL.

I agree, it can take 3 or 4 years, yet we want to be done with Colt after 2. Again, he has very little support around him, and I'm not saying he's the answer, but until there is a WR with legitimate NFL talent and somebody that blocks on the right side, what's the point in bringing in someone else? So they can have their confidence destroyed when they are leveled by T-Sizzle and Harrison/Woodley while their WRs drop the most passes in the NFL?

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Again, the coaches aren't fools, they can tell pretty quickly if a QB has the ability or not. I'm not saying McCoy doesn't have it, if the coaches absolutely believe in McCoy then they won't draft another QB, they don't need another season to decide. That is just what fans think but coaches and GM's know if a player has the talent just by watching him in practice, that's why Quinn never got a shot with Crennel.

The stadium keeps filling up every season for the past decade+ of misery and ineptitude, why would next year be the tipping point? No way do we turn over the entire FO unless we go 2-14 or worse.

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So did Detroit's fans but there is a limit to every team's fan. They have to have at least some hope or eventually or they just give up and stop attending.
Lerner has NEVER show a lot of patience with his manegent teams, he panics quickly and was quick to turn over his last 2 decision makers, thats why we have stunk so long.
One of the main reasons why GM's get fired besides long losing streaks is loss of revenue and Holmgren and his hand picked people have to produce ticket sales to survive, waiting another 4-6 seasons isn't in the cards for this management team unless they can give their fans real hope by drafting a QB, that is why they must be absolutely sure about McCoy.


I don't agree with that. If it makes sense to make a move they will, but they won't just draft or sign somebody that they don't believe in just because they aren't sold on McCoy. You don't go out and say, "hey, I don't really like Flynn/RGIII, but lets bring him in because I don't like Colt either." What sense does that make?
RG111 is a consensus top 5 pick in this year's draft, he isn't just somebody. GM's and scouts believe strongly in this guy or he wouldn't be up there that high. Now if he sinks down team's boards out of the top 10 or further, then I would agree that we have no choice but to wait a year and pray for better luck, but if he remains in the top 5, he will be our pick provided that they have come to the conclusion that McCoy isn't the answer, or they sign/trade for Flynn, whichever one they believe in more strongly.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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As has been stated numerous times in this thread, a good amount can change between now and late April. Thereís a lot of moving parts involved in the draft process and rumors at this point are pure speculation.

That said, Iíll explain this one from a Browns perspective. This team needs a quarterback in the worst way. I understand the desire to protect stockpiled picks and pardon Colt McCoy on the condition of working with no talent, but the latter just simply isnít possible for me. The Browns are one of the least talented offenses in the NFL. That much is true. It doesnít entirely excuse Coltís poor play this past season though. Certain things a quarterback does are independent of his supporting cast. For example, his ball placement has regressed and he hasnít lived up to his billing as an accurate passer. If Colt canít be accurate in the short-to-intermediate range, heís got a slim chance of surviving as a starting quarterback because his marginal arm strength leaves him little room for error. Also, heís not throwing the ball with anticipation or throwing his receivers open. Heís still throwing to targets instead of spots. And while the receiving department needs a talent infusion, there were still times they broke free of coverage and werenít rewarded with the ball. Honestly, Colt still looks shocked at the speed of the game, which isnít a promising sign for a young quarterback. He doesnít look comfortable in the pocket and just waits for a wide-open read before hitting his check-down. Separation in college and the pros are vastly different concepts. Colt still has the college concept ingrained in him and is scared to pull the trigger on what would be a stick throw. But the ability to complete stick throws is a required trait at this level. As it stands, the two professional qualities that Colt has shown in spades are intangibles and work ethic. Even still, those arenít strong enough indicators for me to ignore the weaker parts of his game and feel comfortable moving forward with him as a long-term answer. Until the quarterbacking improves, this offense is doomed to dismal production.

Thatís the reason the Browns should make a push for Robert Griffin III. He has a tantalizing skill set and the potential to be a solution for a problem this team has had since their return. Do I have some questions and reservations regarding RGIII? Yeah, I sure do. But, overall, I like the package I see. Heís got a big-time arm that can drive the ball downfield and should be able to cut through the inclement weather that rolls in from Lake Erie. I think heís got nice touch as a passer, too. His deep ball is underrated. Itís one of the best I saw in college football. With the NFL gravitating toward vertical explosiveness, thatís a big plus for him. And thatís without mentioning the dual-threat dimension he brings to an offense. When coordinators have a gifted athlete that can also pass, it adds a lot of multiplicity to an offense. To me, that package warrants enough confidence to select him in the top five. The most pressing questions around him will be answered at the NFL Combine and individual team workouts. Does he have a natural football aptitude? Can he digest a more pro-oriented offense after growing accustomed to a variant of the run-and-shoot? Can he continue to develop at diagnosing defenses? Will he put forth the effort required to quicken his progressions and streamline mechanical issues? His response in that environment will determine how a team views him because the raw tools are there to be cultivated.

Now, while Iím on-board with drafting RGIII, I think the Browns war room should be prepared to call the Rams on their bluff. Because, to me, St. Louis isnít the prime trading partner for Cleveland. First off, the Rams arenít a contender for his services given their investment in Sam Bradford and Fisherís preference for traditional quarterbacks. Itís plausible, I suppose. But itís a longshot. Plus, if St. Louis tried to strike deals with Washington or Miami, the Rams would be left picking from that second-tier of prospects. Given their expected interest in prospects like Blackmon, Claiborne, and Kalil, Iím not sold St. Louis removes themselves from a position to pick from the lot of them. And, in addition, thereís a chance Washington and Miami pass on St. Louis at two because Griffin will be available at three and can be had at a cheaper price. Odds are the market thins out before then, too. If Matt Flynn lands in any of these three cities, the other two are only competing against the other. Backtracking to the original premise, I would still consider moving up to two in order to grab Griffin, but twenty-two wouldnít be the centerpiece of that deal, which is what I think St. Louis is banking on.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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No matter whom is QBing, the Browns desperately need to shore up the right side of the line. Whether that is done later in the first round or earlier, I don't care. They need a RT and RG desperately.

I don't know if RGIII is the answer or not. I'm leaning towards "not". He's a freak athlete, but is he really a QB that can make the laser-like throws that the elite QBs need to make? I don't think so.

He could go the Cam Newton route, but he's not the biggest dude in the world and would end up getting beaten down with that pathetic right side of the line in Cleveland.

Luck would definitely be the answer. I think Barkley next year could be an answer.

My strategy would be to attack the line, RB, and WR this year on O and LB and DB on D (with maybe a DL or two). Both through FA and the draft.

Betting the farm to move up some slots to get RGIII is a bad idea, IMO.

A guy like Larry Grant would be a great FA pickup for the Browns LB corp.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Well, no NFL GM's agree with your theory, they all go by the 'Golden Rule', never pass on a potential franchise QB when you have an opportunity to get one. Miami didn't follow this rule and Atlanta got Ryan. Atlanta has made the playoffs 4 years in a row and where is Miami?
Immediate contradiction. Where is our Roddy White or Michael Turner? It simply isn't true that rookie QBs turn franchises around without help. Who on this team is capable of providing any help whatsoever? Hillis [gone], Hardesty [injured], Little [maybe], Watson [concussions], etc.

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See the above quote. Look at Miami and you see the results of putting it off. Look at all the teams with the 1st pick in the draft who got their franchise QB's and have won Super Bowls recently.
Detroit was 0-16 with zero talent but took Stanford #1 in the draft and now are a serious Super Bowl contender for years to come. You don't wait, you strike while the iron is hot.
Again, I don't see Megatron on this team. Where are the playmakers?

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So how is the 2nd rounder this year or the 22nd pick get us that much closer, giving up the bundle you are suggesting would put us in a position where we have practically zero talent around a QB with little hope to contend even with a solid QB.
San Diego failed with Leaf and drafted Rivers, Indy failed with George and drafted Peyton and I could go on and on. If a team fails when drafting a QB, you simply draft another one till you get it right no matter how many times you fail. There is simply no other way to be successful in the NFL.
In regards to your first paragraph, I'm proposing getting young talent in this draft. If the FO thinks they have the pieces in place, then next year they can make the big splash for the QB. Either way you are giving up high value picks.

Again, Rivers had talent around him. He sat for his first two seasons. In 2006 he became the starter with Tomlinson, Gates, a young VJax and a good OL. AGAIN, Peyton had Marvin Harrison and Marshall Faulk. We don't have any future HOF players, sans Thomas (and one guy on the OL isn't going to cut it, no matter how good).

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Again, the coaches aren't fools, they can tell pretty quickly if a QB has the ability or not. I'm not saying McCoy doesn't have it, if the coaches absolutely believe in McCoy then they won't draft another QB, they don't need another season to decide. That is just what fans think but coaches and GM's know if a player has the talent just by watching him in practice, that's why Quinn never got a shot with Crennel.
Coaches are never wrong about players...got it...that's brilliant...

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So did Detroit's fans but there is a limit to every team's fan. They have to have at least some hope or eventually or they just give up and stop attending.
Lerner has NEVER show a lot of patience with his manegent teams, he panics quickly and was quick to turn over his last 2 decision makers, thats why we have stunk so long.
One of the main reasons why GM's get fired besides long losing streaks is loss of revenue and Holmgren and his hand picked people have to produce ticket sales to survive, waiting another 4-6 seasons isn't in the cards for this management team unless they can give their fans real hope by drafting a QB, that is why they must be absolutely sure about McCoy.
A nice draft and FA class will bring fans back this year in CLE; it always does.

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RG111 is a consensus top 5 pick in this year's draft, he isn't just somebody. GM's and scouts believe strongly in this guy or he wouldn't be up there that high. Now if he sinks down team's boards out of the top 10 or further, then I would agree that we have no choice but to wait a year and pray for better luck, but if he remains in the top 5, he will be our pick provided that they have come to the conclusion that McCoy isn't the answer, or they sign/trade for Flynn, whichever one they believe in more strongly.
OK, so all GMs evaluate talent exactly the same...again, brilliant...smh
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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My strategy would be to attack the line, RB, and WR this year on O and LB and DB on D (with maybe a DL or two). Both through FA and the draft.

Betting the farm to move up some slots to get RGIII is a bad idea, IMO.
Obviously, I 100% agree with all of this.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Obviously, I 100% agree with all of this.
Obviously, you agree with him that RG111 isn't a top 5 prospect because I know he doesn't like RG111, time will tell if you are both dead wrong or right. Way too early in the draft process to tell for sure.
IMO, the Browns will draft RG111 or trade for Flynn whoever they strongly believe is the better prospect, they aren't going wait no matter what you believe they should do unless McCoy is the QB they are staking the team's future and their jobs on. You can bet money on their decision on McCoy, they are either fully committed to him or they are going in another direction, only time will tell their conclusion on McCoy.
I had these same arguments with a # of Lion's fans over Stafford.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I don't know if trading up to get Griffin is the right choice or not. I do know that the Browns shouldn't and probably won't sit on their hands this year instead of aggressively pursuing a potential franchise QB. Holmgren has repeatedly alluded to how it took him 5 years to get to the super bowl in Green Bay and 5 years to get there in Seattle - once he found his franchise QB (Hasselbeck). If they don't bring in someone this year (Flynn? Griffin?) then it will set the franchise back another year and it will be another year added to when the Browns feel they can compete for a championship.

Griffin I think is obviously a top 5 caliber QB in any draft. He has enough size, he has the arm, he can throw an accurate ball, he is mobile and athletic, he has the intangeables and is very smart. Most QBs come with some kind of risk, you can't find a star franchise QB without taking some kind of risk. The only question remaining I think is do the Browns like Griffin enough to the point where they would trade multiple quality picks to ensure that they get him?
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Just because I think this has gotten lost in the discussion: I'm not against RGIII, I'm against giving up picks to go up and get him.

If he were still there at #4 and we already signed (for example) Stevie Johnson and we can get a RB and RT at #22 and #37, then I'm all for it. But as of now, in our current situation, trading #22 to go get him would be irresponsible as he would have no young talent (outside of Little) to grow with.

That's my $0.02 worth...yes, I realize at this point it's more like $20.00 worth...
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Just because I think this has gotten lost in the discussion: I'm not against RGIII, I'm against giving up picks to go up and get him.

If he were still there at #4 and we already signed (for example) Stevie Johnson and we can get a RB and RT at #22 and #37, then I'm all for it. But as of now, in our current situation, trading #22 to go get him would be irresponsible as he would have no young talent (outside of Little) to grow with.

That's my $0.02 worth...yes, I realize at this point it's more like $20.00 worth...
Obviously I agree 100%. I don't dislike RGIII at all. I just don't think he's worth giving up a 1st rounder for to move up a couple of slots to get. If he falls to Cleveland, awesome, if not, get Trent Richardson a couple of FA WRs and draft a right tackle later in the round.
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