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Old 01-21-2012, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Mike Shanahan and Jeff Fisher are allegedly butt buddies.

Don't be surprised to see Fisher and the Rams give the Redskins a draft pick friendly deal to move up to #2 that doesn't involve anal lubrication.

BTW, in the new rookie salary cap era, even if a top pick like Newton or even Luck looks like a bust after a couple seasons, these guy can be cut outright without gutting a team's salary cap.

No team nowadays is handcuffed to a top draft pick because they owe him $50+ mil guaranteed in a backloaded contract.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
You do realize that as a Franchise we have only taken 3 QB's in the 1st round since the merger in 1970 right? It's only 2 if you don't count Kosar in the supplemental draft.

The fans of Cleveland are so scared of drafting a bust that they want to get a Franchise QB on the cheap. They constantly bring up the once in a decade stories like Brady in the 6th and Warner as an UDFA. I bet if you polled Cleveland fans on where is the best place to get a Franchise QB, the 1st round would come in last.

On theOBR, there is a HUGE group of Fans that want a RIGHT TACKLE with pick #4. I am not joking! The want Riley Reif or Kalil to fall to us.

So all you non-Browns fans have to understand what the thinking is of the average Browns Fan is:

1. QB's are not the reason Teams get better. It's the player surrounding them. No QB in the History of the League has risen the play of his teammates. he is COMPLETELY dependent on his surrounding cast.

2. Left Tackle is BY FAR and away the MOST IMPORTANT position i nall of sports, not just football. Who cares that we have the best LT in Football and our Offense averages a 29th rank since he's been here.

3. Marginal QB's (like Colt Mccoy) can win if given a 1st round pick at all 5 O-line positions and an all pro at all other offensive positions. But, all those All-Pro's need to be 4th rounders atg the highest. UDFA's are preferred.

4. Defense wins Championships!!

5. Free Agents all want to come to Cleveland. With our great weather, party life and phenomonal schools. Who wouldn't want to raise their children here and spend the offseason here?
Well not all Cleveland fans think that way, there are 3 or 4 posting in this debate who understand the importance of a QB and understand that you just keep drafting them till you get it right.

Those who don't believe in the 'Golden Rule' will never be convinced of its validity whether it is Cleveland or some other suffering city, they simply don't get it and never will. Fortunately, I believe Holmgren gets it and we'll see RG111 in a Cleveland uniform next season, making all these arguments rather mute.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I honestly don't think NFL is anything like other sports when it comes to location on where to play. Money speaks more so in NFL than any other sport, if you can offer a good contract and your facility is impressive and the staff makes a good impression then you can normally get free agents.

Also, there are some very nice cities in the Cleveland area... I know the weather isn't incredible but football is played in the fall/winter, when the players are done they can go wherever they want to train, and then get to do camp/ota in Ohio in Summer, which is much better than doing that stuff in Florida at that time of the year.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
I honestly don't think NFL is anything like other sports when it comes to location on where to play. Money speaks more so in NFL than any other sport, if you can offer a good contract and your facility is impressive and the staff makes a good impression then you can normally get free agents.

Also, there are some very nice cities in the Cleveland area... I know the weather isn't incredible but football is played in the fall/winter, when the players are done they can go wherever they want to train, and then get to do camp/ota in Ohio in Summer, which is much better than doing that stuff in Florida at that time of the year.
There are a very large # of FA's who are looking to join a contender, they won't sign with a chronic loser unless nobody else wants them or the money is so far above everybody else that they cannot resist it.
So Cleveland must either overpay considerably for a solid FA or accept that he won't come to Cleveland.
We can of course, sign FA's looking for a last payday before retiring and who aren't really interested in putting out a whole lot for a loser but just want to go through the motions before hanging up their cleats.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Cleveland needs to win before it can hope to attract top level FAs. If the money is roughly equal, most players would rather play for a contender instead of turning a perennial struggling franchise into a playoff team.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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why would top level free agents want to come to cleveland?

on the flipside, why would we spend money on veteran players when we aren't close to competing yet? free agents should be guys you sign to put your team over the hump, not guys you sign to try and build a team.

when the browns start winning more games, then they'll be in position to sign free agents, and concurrently free agents will start wanting to come to help put the browns over the top and win.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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There are a very large # of FA's who are looking to join a contender, they won't sign with a chronic loser unless nobody else wants them or the money is so far above everybody else that they cannot resist it.
So Cleveland must either overpay considerably for a solid FA or accept that he won't come to Cleveland.
We can of course, sign FA's looking for a last payday before retiring and who aren't really interested in putting out a whole lot for a loser but just want to go through the motions before hanging up their cleats.
We were able to sign Bentley and Baxter when they were two of the biggest free agents in their class. They looked to be solid signings until they blew their leg out.

If we start to build a winner and convince players of a goal it won't be that difficult to sign free agents. This free agency will be a huge indicator of whether or not we can get free agents because we have many areas of need and there are large pools of players at a few of those specific needs.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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We overpaid BIG TIME for Baxter and Bentley signed here because he grew up here and it was hsi dream to play for the Browns.

We couldn't get Big time Free Agents to sign here to play with Lebron James, so I don't see them coming to play with Colt Mccoy anytime soon. :)
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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We overpaid BIG TIME for Baxter and Bentley signed here because he grew up here and it was hsi dream to play for the Browns.

We couldn't get Big time Free Agents to sign here to play with Lebron James, so I don't see them coming to play with Colt Mccoy anytime soon. :)
THANK YOU.

And besides them, that one year, Cleveland gets nobody. You basically get to pick through other team's trash.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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THANK YOU.

And besides them, that one year, Cleveland gets nobody. You basically get to pick through other team's trash.
Eric Steinbach?
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Eric Steinbach?
Meh, decent. So you're total of high level FA signings is now up to 3 in the past, like, decade at least.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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I don't believe we have actively pursued in free agency lately. We traded for Corey Williams and Sean Rogers and actually had spent a bunch of money around the time of 2007-2009, and Mangini didn't really look in free agency actively for whatever reason.

This year will prove whether or not we can get guys.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Meh, decent. So you're total of high level FA signings is now up to 3 in the past, like, decade at least.
Any team that tries hard enough will sign free agents. The money is all that matters.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe the browns fans are worried about giving up the 4th and 22nd pick for rg3. Who cares about the 22nd pick. Rg3 is going to be special
Says a rams fan lol
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I honestly don't think NFL is anything like other sports when it comes to location on where to play. Money speaks more so in NFL than any other sport....
Exactly so thats why you sign a deal with a team located in a state with little or no state income tax.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Hmm, it's frustrating that people continue to think that I'm against drafting RGIII, or that I think Colt is the answer to our QB concerns, etc.

If we make enough moves in FA to grab a quality starting RB, WR, and RT, then absolutely trade whatever to make sure we get RGIII. He will have the players around him to protect him as he grows.

But my arguments continue to be in the context of:
1. no FA signings of consequence (prior history indicates this is a definite possibility)
2. Hillis being gone (all but guaranteed by the local media)
3. having to trade the #22 pick to move to #2 to draft RGIII

In that scenario, I think he busts out because I believe that as a QB, your situation dictates success as much as your talent level. But, yes, I fully understand that without a QB, this franchise is going nowhere.

I think it's worth noting that this offense scored one (1) more point than the expansion team in 1999. One. More. Point.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Hmm, it's frustrating that people continue to think that I'm against drafting RGIII, or that I think Colt is the answer to our QB concerns, etc.
A sizable portion of posters on this site lack basic reading comprehension skills.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Hmm, it's frustrating that people continue to think that I'm against drafting RGIII, or that I think Colt is the answer to our QB concerns, etc.

If we make enough moves in FA to grab a quality starting RB, WR, and RT, then absolutely trade whatever to make sure we get RGIII. He will have the players around him to protect him as he grows.

But my arguments continue to be in the context of:
1. no FA signings of consequence (prior history indicates this is a definite possibility)
2. Hillis being gone (all but guaranteed by the local media)
3. having to trade the #22 pick to move to #2 to draft RGIII

In that scenario, I think he busts out because I believe that as a QB, your situation dictates success as much as your talent level. But, yes, I fully understand that without a QB, this franchise is going nowhere.

I think it's worth noting that this offense scored one (1) more point than the expansion team in 1999. One. More. Point.


So then by your estimation the Colts shouldn't take Andrew Luck correct? Because that team is in SHAMBLES.

Do you realize that the Colts we 28th in scoring to our 30th? And Reggie Wayne is 33 and he and Garcon are both Free Agents. The Run Offense and O-line is TERRIBLE. They may lose Mathis also.

I guess Luck will not have success because the situation is much worse than that of the Browns.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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So then by your estimation the Colts shouldn't take Andrew Luck correct? Because that team is in SHAMBLES.

Do you realize that the Colts we 28th in scoring to our 30th? And Reggie Wayne is 33 and he and Garcon are both Free Agents. The Run Offense and O-line is TERRIBLE. They may lose Mathis also.

I guess Luck will not have success because the situation is much worse than that of the Browns.
There's a few key differences:

1. Andrew Luck (in the opinion of many) is one of the best QB prospects to enter the draft in 20 years. He is safer and more NFL ready than RGIII.
2. The Colts aren't giving up extra picks to move up and draft Luck.
3. You conveniently left out their best weapon, Dallas Clark. Dallas Clark >>>> all Browns WRs/TEs
4. By the estimation of nearly every Cleveland media outlet, Hillis (our "best" playmaker) is as good as gone. The Colts still have Addai (although I don't care for him) and a promising back in Delone Carter.
5. Garcon is pretty decent, although he tends to drop too many balls. At this point in their careers, he's much more established than Greg Little.

Is that enough? I'm tired of this discussion. Let me say it again, I'm fine if we draft RGIII at #4. He's a great talent that could be a great NFL QB someday. However, in my opinion, giving up the #22 pick to move up and get him would be a mistake as the offense has no playmakers to support his development. Situation + Talent = Success. Right now, the situation is ****. That's my opinion on the matter. Please stop making this into, "OMG, FtE hates Griffin. Doesn't he know that you need a QB to win?"
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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A sizable portion of posters on this site lack basic reading comprehension skills.
Lol, apparently...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JoeJoeBrown again.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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What would your best possible scenario for the Browns be if RGIII and Luck are both gone at #4? Just out of curiosity, I'm not backtracking this whole thread....
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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What would your best possible scenario for the Browns be if RGIII and Luck are both gone at #4? Just out of curiosity, I'm not backtracking this whole thread....
I'm not a Browns fan but I would assume Trent Richardson.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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What would your best possible scenario for the Browns be if RGIII and Luck are both gone at #4? Just out of curiosity, I'm not backtracking this whole thread....
Blackmon falls to them at 4 would be the best case scenario in that instance. Otherwise trade the Lions in an Atlanta esque trade for Kalil.
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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5. Garcon is pretty decent, although he tends to drop too many balls. At this point in their careers, he's much more established than Greg Little.
I'm not sure Garcon is a reasonable argument at this point. Pretty sure he's a free agent and I've read that he is interested in testing the market. Colts could lose Reggie Wayne and Garcon and Tamme.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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I hope we don't take RG3 at 4, and it will be a travesty if we move up to 2 for him. and guess what? It's not gonna happen. Holmgren takes QB's later and hopes to hit on one. He has said this multiple times. Sam Bradford, is an extreme exception because he absolutely loved him. I don't see the Browns mov ingup to 2 to draft RG3
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