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Old 01-24-2012, 09:20 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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No burst off the snap??? Really??

I bet you a virtual dollar that Ingram is the defensive MVP of the Senior Bowl game.;)
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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I don't see why people are saying Ingram is too big to play OLB in the 3-4 defense.

Lamarr Woodley was 6014 266 at the combine (listed at 6-2 265 by the Steelers). Ingram is 6017 276 at the senior bowl weigh-in. Are we saying he can't drop 10 lbs? I bet he can drop 10 lbs by the combine if he wanted to.

A team drafting Ingram to play OLB will absolutely want him to play the Woodley role.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he needs to drop 10 lbs. I've met Ingram in person, he is the most svelte 276 lb. man I've seen. He carries his weight very well, it's all solid mass and he probably will put up a pretty impressive short shuttle time for being that big. The problem with him is his length. Only 6'2" and he has short arms.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:18 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
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I don't think he needs to drop 10 lbs. I've met Ingram in person, he is the most svelte 276 lb. man I've seen. He carries his weight very well, it's all solid mass and he probably will put up a pretty impressive short shuttle time for being that big. The problem with him is his length. Only 6'2" and he has short arms.
I didn't say he needed to drop 10 pounds, I was just pointing out that if he did, he would be essentially the same size as Woodley (well 3/8" taller) and Woodley has no problem playing OLB at his size. So if a team wanted Ingram to play OLB, the size wouldn't be the thing that keeps them away.

I think he would be a darn good fit at OLB for a 3-4 team that has one good pass rushing OLB already and would have Ingram as the #2 guy (ideal marriage of player and need is probably somewhere like Green Bay, but the Packers would probably have to trade up to get him.)

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Old 01-29-2012, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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I think he would be a darn good fit at OLB for a 3-4 team that has one good pass rushing OLB already and would have Ingram as the #2 guy (ideal marriage of player and need is probably somewhere like Green Bay, but the Packers would probably have to trade up to get him.)
We traded up (with NE) to get Clay Matthews in 2009.
Maybe TraderTed does it again, for the same position.

This team sucks without a pass rush >as teams only had to worry about #52. Nobody else could sniff an opponents QB.
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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No burst off the snap??? Really??

I bet you a virtual dollar that Ingram is the defensive MVP of the Senior Bowl game.;)
Ok, sounds good ;)

I wouldn't touch this guy near a 3-4, just cant beat anyone off the edge. Doesn't use his hands, has short arms anyway, doens't have good burst off the snap and just isn't physical enough as a rusher to be a good bull rusher like Upshaw is to overcome those things. He's versatile, but thats all he's got at this point for a 34
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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I'd be very wary spending a first round pick on Ingram. When I scouted him, all I could notice was the high amount of effort he needed to get anywhere. With little burst off the snap and average hand usage you really have to be a technician inside and I just don't see that with Ingram. He does have a few good pass rush moves he likes to go to, but I haven't actually seen them work much. Overall his limited upside just keeps him out of the first round for me. Do I think he will last into the second day? Probably not, the need for teams to rush the passer is at an all-time high.
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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I'd be very wary spending a first round pick on Ingram. When I scouted him, all I could notice was the high amount of effort he needed to get anywhere. With little burst off the snap and average hand usage you really have to be a technician inside and I just don't see that with Ingram. He does have a few good pass rush moves he likes to go to, but I haven't actually seen them work much. Overall his limited upside just keeps him out of the first round for me. Do I think he will last into the second day? Probably not, the need for teams to rush the passer is at an all-time high.
Agree for the most part. With a 1st round pass rusher, I want elite potential. I don't see that with him. He won't be a bust of a pick, but I think he's a solid DE not a great one. The comparison I like is a Charles Johnson type. Going to be a max effort pass rusher who I think is (like Johnson) more of a 9-11 sack/season type player rather than a guy that can consistently surpass or flirt with 15+ like a Ware, Matthews, Allen. And with a 1st round pick, I'd want a guy that can put up those elite type numbers.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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There are only a small handful of Ware's, Matthews's, Allen's, etc. If a guy is a 10 sack guy that offers versatility... that's generally a 1st round consideration.

I'm not so sure about the chatter about Ingram's lack of burst. Have you seen his explosiveness in relation to Upshaw? Night and day.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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There are only a small handful of Ware's, Matthews's, Allen's, etc. If a guy is a 10 sack guy that offers versatility... that's generally a 1st round consideration.

I'm not so sure about the chatter about Ingram's lack of burst. Have you seen his explosiveness in relation to Upshaw? Night and day.
Yeah, that's why I said "for the most part". He definitely has some burst. And I agree there are not many of the 15+ sack guys out there, but he doesn't seem like he'll ever be a guy teams will gameplan for starting on Monday/Tuesday, like they do for those 3 and guys like Peppers, Freeney (in his prime), Abraham, etc.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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I agree with what rawdawg said about him not being a guy you gameplan around but Ingram is a guy I can see becoming a solid role player and a potentially key cog in a defense somewhere and becoming a Adalius Thomas/Mike Vrable/Jarret Johnson type player depending on how he pans out.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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I agree with what rawdawg said about him not being a guy you gameplan around but Ingram is a guy I can see becoming a solid role player and a potentially key cog in a defense somewhere and becoming a Adalius Thomas/Mike Vrable/Jarret Johnson type player depending on how he pans out.
So the real question becomes...Is a role player in that type of mold WORTH a mid-late 1st rounder?
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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We traded up (with NE) to get Clay Matthews in 2009.
Maybe TraderTed does it again, for the same position.

This team sucks without a pass rush >as teams only had to worry about #52. Nobody else could sniff an opponents QB.

15-2. I agree it killed us but "this team sucks without pass rush" is really stretching it. 15-2 is hard to classify as a sucky season

That said, TT needs to load up on not quantity but quality and NEEDS to be aggressive for only his 2nd time ever. He needs a dynamic OLB and a Dynamic DE. Ingram, bust or not would be light years better than Jones, Walden, Zombo trio we have now.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Are the Jets going to address the QB situation later then, perhaps round 2, or are they not concerned with the direction Sanchez is headed?
You think the Jets are going to consider a QB at 16 ?
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Are the Jets going to address the QB situation later then, perhaps round 2, or are they not concerned with the direction Sanchez is headed?
Anyone who takes a qb in the first round after RG3 is an idiot. If the jets take a qb with pick 16 I'm turning in my jets fan card.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Can somebody please explain why someone would mock Melvin Ingram to the Patriots? I keep seeing it and I don't get it. Is it his short stature that so intrigues people despite the fact that BB on numerous occasions has elected not to draft players like Ingram. Is it the fact that Ingram was moved around on defense to constantly match up against the weakest opponents that has people believing he's going to tear up the NFL? Someone please tell me because I'm going nuts every time I see this pick. It makes no sense...
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Anybody else concerned that the majority of his pressures/sacks came from lining up at DT and overwhelming overmatched guards? Not a whole lot of success off the edge.

He's one of those guys that "just makes plays," though.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Anybody else concerned that the majority of his pressures/sacks came from lining up at DT and overwhelming overmatched guards? Not a whole lot of success off the edge.

He's one of those guys that "just makes plays," though.
Eh, not really. It's a passing league now and more teams use pass rushers going against interior linemen these days. Look at someone like Justin Tuck. He is a better than average LE for the Giants but a dominating pass rusher inside.

The NFL is now so specified that players who may have been considered niche or role players now have a significant role, especially if that role is rushing the passer.

The question becomes, if Ingram's ceiling is a role player who may become a very good interior rusher do you spend a first round pick on him? This is what GMs and decision makers need to weigh up. Do they take a guy like Ingram who can be a solid player with a ceiling of Justin Tuck or do they take a riskier pass rusher with the upside of JPP?
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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15-2. I agree it killed us but "this team sucks without pass rush" is really stretching it. 15-2 is hard to classify as a sucky season

That said, TT needs to load up on not quantity but quality and NEEDS to be aggressive for only his 2nd time ever. He needs a dynamic OLB and a Dynamic DE. Ingram, bust or not would be light years better than Jones, Walden, Zombo trio we have now.
Yeah I meant this defense sucks with no pass rush.
Obviously the offense and overall team don't suck.

Can't wait to compare Ingramzzz times to Upshaws at the combine, and all the other OLB/DE prospects.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Anybody else concerned that the majority of his pressures/sacks came from lining up at DT and overwhelming overmatched guards? Not a whole lot of success off the edge.

He's one of those guys that "just makes plays," though.
He moves well laterally and has a nice first step. I don't see a stud, but I think he'll be productive. The "just make plays" thing is so true. Good awareness out there.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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I hope Ingram drops his weight around 260# prior to the combine so we can see how he looks in LB drills.
I'm sure teams will work him out anyway doing drops and covering passes, but I feel we'd have a better gauge of his 34 potential at a lighter weight.
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