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Old 02-02-2012, 03:09 PM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
I would also like to bring in Garcon. He produced this year and i think proved he isn't totally a product of the system (but of course any WR will see their production go up with Peyton).



Is Grant an UFA or RFA? I've heard conflicting reports. If he's a RFA i would put a mid-round tender and try to gain an extra draft pick. Say a 4th rounder, i think a ILB starved team would spend a 4th rounder on a starting capable player like Grant. Meanwhile we don't need him as much as other teams and can use that pick to solve our own needs. I also think we have a bit of a "plug and play" system. Last offseason Grant was a nobody. I have complete confidence in our coaches to develop our players and any FA we may pick up.
He is a RFA. I think they'll give a second or a third round tender.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Let go

-Brooks (can't keep everyone)

Draft

Round 1- Chase Thomas, 3-4 OLB
What do you guys think?
Chase Thomas will return for his Senior season at Stanford.

OLB is a position of NEED. I don't feel letting Ahmad Brooks walk is a good idea unless he breaks the bank.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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In my intial post of the subject, I called Allen the H-Back of the secondary, so how am I considering one option as the sole reason for his signing? Whether he subsitute for Whitner in one package, Bowman in another, its the flexibilty of having the personel to do it. Not one is under-scoring the importancr of Whitner to the defense. I said on many occassion, he was probably the biggest addition to the team, not All-Done, not Rogers. Because he allowed so many others(Rogers, Goldson) to prosper by doing his job to the utmost. But I'm not blind either. I see him....and the rest of the secondary struggling with covering TEs. So why not add a guy who can help in that one area, along with bring his other skills to the fold as well?
I didn't mean to make it look like you were the one to ask for the transaction that would take Bowman off the field, my apologies.

In general, my statement would be that, spread teams (whether it be with extra WRs or with extra split TE's) tend to utilize that look on nearly all downs. So, in my theory, adding a Jason Allen and subtracting a Donte Whitner/NaVorro Bowman because of this, is a downgrade. I feel that defensive teams that alter their base personnel in response to what the offense is doing, are bound for failures. But to be perfectly clear, I agree that adding a player of Allen's versatility would be tremendous for depth.

Just differing opinions on his value, is all.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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I didn't mean to make it look like you were the one to ask for the transaction that would take Bowman off the field, my apologies.

In general, my statement would be that, spread teams (whether it be with extra WRs or with extra split TE's) tend to utilize that look on nearly all downs. So, in my theory, adding a Jason Allen and subtracting a Donte Whitner/NaVorro Bowman because of this, is a downgrade. I feel that defensive teams that alter their base personnel in response to what the offense is doing, are bound for failures. But to be perfectly clear, I agree that adding a player of Allen's versatility would be tremendous for depth.

Just differing opinions on his value, is all.
I never said anything about changing the base personel. I was talking strictly nickel. We're the only team I know that uses two ILBs in their nickel packages. Now maybe your arguement is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I can concede that. But I also understand that this is becoming a passing dominant league. Top offenses are rarely in their base sets anymore and these new athletes at TEs are mis-matches waiting to happen. The nickel is becoming the base defense. That's how much top offenses lean heavily on the passing game. Next year year we face Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Eli, and their top teir offenses. The road to the NFCCG will be alot tougher. If you stand pat, your going backwards in the NFL, IMO. You have to re-tooled and look at ways to get stronger on the back-end. Having Bowman and Willis try to continue covering the likes of Finely, Pettigrew, Keller, Graham, Gronk, and Hernandez will bite us in the ass. If it wasn't for the aggrogance of Gregg Williams, it would have happened in the divisonal round. Sure taking a All-Pro ILB and very good SS off the field on key downs may sound off but let's be real, locking up in man coverage against great TEs is not really the strong-suit of either. We won't always have the turnover difference we had this year. All-Done will likely see alot of help on his side come next season. You have to prepare for these occurances and work on improving in other areas to help off set these. From my perspective, we can't go into next season with the same philosphy, personel wise, regarding these top QBs and their offenses. Teams have a year of tape on us and they will adjust. Not saying we scrap everything we do well, but I think some different looks in our nickel could do wonders for us moving foward, in a nutshell.

And as far as Allen's value, I think his skill-set is vaulable. That doesn't mean I equate him to same value as guys like Carr, Thomas, and Rogers, money wise. He should be fairly cheaper than all three of those guys. I just think with the our scheme on the back-end and how we roll coverages and the stoutness of our safety play, he could do very well here.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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My "base nickel"...


Tarell Brown | "Jason Allen-type" |Donte Whitner | Dashon Goldson | Chris Culliver

Patrick Willis | NaVorro Bowman

Aldon Smith | Justin Smith | Ray McDonald | Ahmad Brooks



"Dime" might be the only time I'd take a LB off the field, and even then, I would consider going with a 3-man front. Hope to add a high round CB for this role. (All of this is assuming Rogers leaves in FA)


Just different approaches and "If it ain't broke don't fix it" would be a valid way to look at it.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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My "base nickel"...


Tarell Brown | "Jason Allen-type" |Donte Whitner | Dashon Goldson | Chris Culliver

Patrick Willis | NaVorro Bowman

Aldon Smith | Justin Smith | Ray McDonald | Ahmad Brooks



"Dime" might be the only time I'd take a LB off the field, and even then, I would consider going with a 3-man front. Hope to add a high round CB for this role. (All of this is assuming Rogers leaves in FA)


Just different approaches and "If it ain't broke don't fix it" would be a valid way to look at it.
Yeah, that's our primary third down package, ala the "big nickel". When I use the term nickel, I'm including dime as well. Because it just refers to the number of CBs, but not really where they are lined-up. But yeah, that nickel package saw alot of run this past year and was fairly stout. No denying that. What Im sugessting is more varied looks. 3-3-5, 2-4-5, 1-5-5. I've just always been a proponent of throwing more looks at a offense. They more they see, the more time they have to spend game-planning for. And with a complete off-season, I think we can still perfect what was tried and true(big nickel), while also implementing some new twists as well. And I think a guy like Allen allows that to happen. Im not sure I want to trust a rookie CB to come in and hit the ground running. We'll defintely add a CB in the draft but I'd rather go through free agency to get that guy like Allen. And even if it isn't Allen, I believe we need a "cover" safety on the roster to compliment Whitner and Goldson, who are zone/in-space types. I really wanted Daniel Manning last year in free agency. He to me, is a guy who can actually run with TEs and WRs as a FS, but also still aware and sound enough in centerfield to make plays. I always thought once he got out of that Cover 2, he would do well and he didn't disappoint. Now whether we get that kind of safety through the draft really doesn't matter. But the reason I was so high on a guy like Allen because he's the only guy I saw on the FA list who comes close to that "cover" safety mold. I say "cover" because that's my way of saying they have the speed and athleticism to run with a TE or WR in man coverage. A majority of the FS in the league can't, including our very own Pro Bowl FS. That's not a knock, its just stating facts. It was one of the reasons I really liked the Cully pick in the last draft because he was more highly thought of as a FS than a CB leading up to the draft. I thought he could add that element as FS/CB kind of hybrid guy. I think a "cover" FS allow for more flexibilty on the back-end and your not pigeon-holed in nickel as much. You see Allen on the field and he could be over the slot, lined up outside the hashes, or deep in the backfield as a safety. It might sound easy but not many can do all three and do them well.

Sorry for getting so long-winded but I can talk football, schemes, players for hours really.

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Old 02-02-2012, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Just had a thought hit me after reading the Jeff Darlington article on TEs.

Harbaugh has used Sopoaga and J. Smith on offense as a FB/blocking TE. Will the team roll Aldon Smith into that role as well?
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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Just had a thought hit me after reading the Jeff Darlington article on TEs.

Harbaugh has used Sopoaga and J. Smith on offense as a FB/blocking TE. Will the team roll Aldon Smith into that role as well?
I don't see how that would work with Aldon's physical build.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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I don't see how that would work with Aldon's physical build.
Yeah, he doesn't seem big enough. But what about as a receiver in the red zone? He has a basketball history, although I haven't been able to find anything about how well he did on the hardcourt.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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How would you guys feel if the 49ers decided to part with Rogers and keep Brooks? I really don't want to break that front seven up. And if Brooks leaves I wouldn't want to have a Paras Haralson type just replace him or whatever. That will kill us as far as getting pressure is concerned. I'm willing to just try and get by with Culliver and Brown as starters.

I'm thinking it's either Rogers or Brooks that bounces. Right now I'm leaning towards Brooks.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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How would you guys feel if the 49ers decided to part with Rogers and keep Brooks? I really don't want to break that front seven up. And if Brooks leaves I wouldn't want to have a Paras Haralson type just replace him or whatever. That will kill us as far as getting pressure is concerned. I'm willing to just try and get by with Culliver and Brown as starters.

I'm thinking it's either Rogers or Brooks that bounces. Right now I'm leaning towards Brooks.
Depth and offseason options at CB far exceed those at OLB.

I'd love both, but Brooks has to be priority over Rogers.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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Brooks is the top priority for me (after Alex)
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Verloren View Post
Just had a thought hit me after reading the Jeff Darlington article on TEs.

Harbaugh has used Sopoaga and J. Smith on offense as a FB/blocking TE. Will the team roll Aldon Smith into that role as well?
I think they need to chill with the array of defensive players in to block on offense. They were starting to get a little too "cute" with it towards the end. There was a cirtical short yardage play we didnt convert in the NFCCG because they had J. Smith in as a lead blocker and he got tossed aside and we ended up losing yardage on the run. Ice made sense because he is a extremely good athlete for his size. The rest of the guys I saw them throw out there....J. Smith, Dobbs, have no business trying to block defensive players in space. Leave the FB thing to Sopoaga. No more defensive players in the backfield. If you want to go jumbo, keep more TEs on the roster or use O-Lineman like they had been doing earlier in the year.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Depth and offseason options at CB far exceed those at OLB.

I'd love both, but Brooks has to be priority over Rogers.
What he said....

No other OLB on the market brings to the table what Brooks does. It can be argued that there are several CBs who could bring a similar skill-set to Rogers.

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Old 02-03-2012, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Just had a thought hit me after reading the Jeff Darlington article on TEs.

Harbaugh has used Sopoaga and J. Smith on offense as a FB/blocking TE. Will the team roll Aldon Smith into that role as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya
I think they need to chill with the array of defensive players in to block on offense. They were starting to get a little too "cute" with it towards the end. There was a cirtical short yardage play we didnt convert in the NFCCG because they had J. Smith in as a lead blocker and he got tossed aside and we ended up losing yardage on the run. Ice made sense because he is a extremely good athlete for his size. The rest of the guys I saw them throw out there....J. Smith, Dobbs, have no business trying to block defensive players in space. Leave the FB thing to Sopoaga. No more defensive players in the backfield. If you want to go jumbo, keep more TEs on the roster or use O-Lineman like they had been doing earlier in the year.
I agree with VAfy-ya. I dont like all this fancy cute crap. It rarely if ever works and going by percentages, its not worth the risk to try stuff like that. That reverse play in the NFCC game was a horrible call as was the call to put Smith in there as a lead blocker. I agree that Sopoaga is solid being in there as a lead FB but thats it and even that should be here and there. The one thing I hated the most this season was all of those cute and fancy packages and plays. They need to be eliminated completely. And I agree with you on keeping an extra TE. Hopefully Byham can return and be 100% for 2012.

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How would you guys feel if the 49ers decided to part with Rogers and keep Brooks? I really don't want to break that front seven up. And if Brooks leaves I wouldn't want to have a Paras Haralson type just replace him or whatever. That will kill us as far as getting pressure is concerned. I'm willing to just try and get by with Culliver and Brown as starters.

I'm thinking it's either Rogers or Brooks that bounces. Right now I'm leaning towards Brooks.
I would definitely be okay with Rogers being allowed to walk and keep Brooks. Brooks will be 28 in March while Rogers will be 31 in July. Add that in to the fact that if we lose Brooks, it will become a bigger need than CB even if we lose Rogers and release Spencer. And im hoping that Brooks and Smith will be the starters in 2012 and Haralson can come off the bench.

Having Brown/Culliver as the starters and possibly signing a guy like Jason Allen to be the nickelback wouldnt be a bad idea. We've had worse. Either way, im still hoping that we draft a CB early.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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According to Rotoworld.com, here's all of our 2012 Free Agents -

My thoughts on each are also listed. :)

QB Alex Smith (UFA)
Obviously, Smith is our number one priority and while I wouldnt give him a huge long term deal, a three year contract worth around $7m or so a year sounds reasonable. Franchise tag would be around $14m so I dont see that as an option.

WR Ted Ginn (UFA)
Must be re-signed. He's average at best as a WR but his damn good as a returner. Honestly, dont want to see him leave.

WR Brett Swain (RFA)
Will probably be tendered at the lowest level or not at all. Dont care either way.

WR Josh Morgan (UFA)
Would like to see Morgan re-signed but I wouldnt offer him a lot of money. Maybe $2-3m a year for 5 years if that. However, wouldnt be surprised if he's allowed to leave.

OG Chilo Rachal (UFA)
I hate this guy. He sucks and is far worse than Snyder. Bye bye (hopefully).

OG Adam Snyder (UFA)
Should be re-signed in my opinion. Snyder isnt great but he's solid and far better than Rachal. Would love Nicks from NO but dont see him leaving NO and he'll be too expensive. Would much rather just keep our starting OL intact.

OLB Ahmad Brooks (UFA)
Must be re-signed in my opinion and is the second priority after Alex. Would definitely pay a little extra to keep him. A four or five year deal worth $5m+ per year seems reasonable as a possible starting point. Either way, team needs to keep Brooks.

ILB Blake Costanzo (UFA)
Good special teams player. Should be re-signed but will depend on his demands.

ILB Larry Grant (RFA)
So happy that Grant is an RFA. I would tender him at the highest level to ensure that we keep him for another year. Would love to extend and keep him because he's a valuable backup and good on special teams. Can also start if needed.

CB Carlos Rogers (UFA)
Would like to re-sign but he'll be 31 in July and I wouldnt overpay him. Would rather overpay Brooks instead. I think his price will be too high and he'll be allowed to leave.

CB Tramaine Brock (ERFA)
Dont see him going anywhere obviously. Decent dimeback and special teamer.

FS Dashon Goldson (UFA)
Would definitely re-sign to a four or five year deal. Will be 28 in September and after Smith and Brooks, I consider Goldson our third biggest free agent and also more valuable than Rogers. He's also been a good combination with Whitner. If he cant be re-signed, I expect him to get franchised. If we can re-sign him, I would franchise Brooks if needed and depending on how much the franchise tag is for LB's.

FS C.J. Spillman (RFA)
Would definitely tender him because it gives us an extra year to try to sign him to a long term deal. Awesome special teamer. Just dont know what level the team will tender him at.

FS Madieu Williams (UFA)
Honestly, dont care about Williams. Bye bye.

SS Reggie Smith (UFA)
Pretty sure the team already told Smith that he will be allowed to leave and honestly, dont really care either way.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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According to Rotoworld.com, here's all of our 2012 Free Agents -

My thoughts on each are also listed. :)

QB Alex Smith (UFA)
Obviously, Smith is our number one priority and while I wouldnt give him a huge long term deal, a three year contract worth around $7m or so a year sounds reasonable. Franchise tag would be around $14m so I dont see that as an option.

WR Ted Ginn (UFA)
Must be re-signed. He's average at best as a WR but his damn good as a returner. Honestly, dont want to see him leave.

WR Brett Swain (RFA)
Will probably be tendered at the lowest level or not at all. Dont care either way.

WR Josh Morgan (UFA)
Would like to see Morgan re-signed but I wouldnt offer him a lot of money. Maybe $2-3m a year for 5 years if that. However, wouldnt be surprised if he's allowed to leave.

OG Chilo Rachal (UFA)
I hate this guy. He sucks and is far worse than Snyder. Bye bye (hopefully).

OG Adam Snyder (UFA)
Should be re-signed in my opinion. Snyder isnt great but he's solid and far better than Rachal. Would love Nicks from NO but dont see him leaving NO and he'll be too expensive. Would much rather just keep our starting OL intact.

OLB Ahmad Brooks (UFA)
Must be re-signed in my opinion and is the second priority after Alex. Would definitely pay a little extra to keep him. A four or five year deal worth $5m+ per year seems reasonable as a possible starting point. Either way, team needs to keep Brooks.

ILB Blake Costanzo (UFA)
Good special teams player. Should be re-signed but will depend on his demands.

ILB Larry Grant (RFA)
So happy that Grant is an RFA. I would tender him at the highest level to ensure that we keep him for another year. Would love to extend and keep him because he's a valuable backup and good on special teams. Can also start if needed.

CB Carlos Rogers (UFA)
Would like to re-sign but he'll be 31 in July and I wouldnt overpay him. Would rather overpay Brooks instead. I think his price will be too high and he'll be allowed to leave.

CB Tramaine Brock (ERFA)
Dont see him going anywhere obviously. Decent dimeback and special teamer.

FS Dashon Goldson (UFA)
Would definitely re-sign to a four or five year deal. Will be 28 in September and after Smith and Brooks, I consider Goldson our third biggest free agent and also more valuable than Rogers. He's also been a good combination with Whitner. If he cant be re-signed, I expect him to get franchised. If we can re-sign him, I would franchise Brooks if needed and depending on how much the franchise tag is for LB's.

FS C.J. Spillman (RFA)
Would definitely tender him because it gives us an extra year to try to sign him to a long term deal. Awesome special teamer. Just dont know what level the team will tender him at.

FS Madieu Williams (UFA)
Honestly, dont care about Williams. Bye bye.

SS Reggie Smith (UFA)
Pretty sure the team already told Smith that he will be allowed to leave and honestly, dont really care either way.

Thoughts?
I agree for the most part. Ginn coming back depends on his demand. I could see us going to the draft to look for a dynamic PR guy. I honestly wouldn't care if he walked.

Alex will be back and I think its formality. If had to rank guys as priorities, he wount even make the list. That's how much of a 'no brainer' I think him returning is.

To me, Goldson is priority 1B, but he's outcome is guaranteed either way because of the tag. I just hope he gets a deal done. I'd hate for him to holdout out a off-season and TC, for risk of injury and start next season rusty, out of shape, and not in sync with the rest of the defense who had been here all through OTAs and TC. That's one downside of the tag. Guys have no security, so they treat any OTAs, TC like its the plague.

Brooks is priority 1B, but just as important as Goldson. I feel a deal is more acheiveable with Brooks because he isn't a sack artist so to speak, so he wont break the bank. During the season I said Brooks wasn't a priority because of All-Done and Haralson being under contract. Totally changed my stance as I realized we ask Brooks to do alot more than just rush the passer. He's the only 3 down player out of all our OLBs. All-Done doesn't play in the base. Haralson doesn't play in the nickel. He's arguably, the most complete LB on the team, including Bowman and Willis. He can put his hand in the dirt and play down the line like a true DE and make plays. He has traditional OLB skills, in space and is the only OLB who can do some man coverage with TEs, thus why we have him on the strong-side. And he could probably slide inside in a emergency and play some TED if you needed. Just a extremely versatile guy and you know I love me some versatility in the personel department. Just wished they showed him some more love in Madden, lol.

I think Spillman will be back and he will be the primary back-up at both safety spots for the time being. I think they really like him and he'll get a chance to move into the 2-deep very soon.

I like Brock probably more than most. A safety in college, he very physically on the outside, something I like. I think he could be one of the better nickelbacks in the league if he keeps progressing.

Blake C. should be back. But I could also see us going the draft and UDFA route to find some ILBs for STs work. He and Gooden are both UFA and might not return.

Made my feelings known about Synder. I want a upgrade at his spot in the worst way. If he resign knowing that Baalke will be bringing in comptetion and that he will have to win the job, I guess I'll take that too. But to be the running team I feel we need to be, while also improving pass-protection, Synder needs to be upgraded.

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Old 02-04-2012, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, he doesn't seem big enough. But what about as a receiver in the red zone? He has a basketball history, although I haven't been able to find anything about how well he did on the hardcourt.
Julius Peppers anyone? :) Hell yeah!
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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So with all the AP awards, all the 49ers up for consideration didn't make it

CPOY- Stafford wins, Alex in 3rd place
DROY- Miller Wins, Aldon in 2nd place
DPOY- Suggs wins, Justin Smith, Willis, and Bowman all received votes (wow)

DeBartolo and Haley both missed out on the HOF too. Bad day for 49ers in terms of recognition.

On the bright side, Harbaugh did win COTY....but that was obvious. Received 45 of a possible 50 votes.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Even though i was crushed watching the SB (i still can't believe we weren't in it) i did feel a little optimistic after the game.

If you look at the Giants when they were 7-7 and about to be eliminated, they went on a serious run...

-Beat Jets 29-15
-Beat Cowboys 31-14
-Beat Falcons 24-2
-Beat Packers 37-20
-Beat 49ers 20-17 (OT)
-Beat Patriots 21-17

We gave the red-hot Giants SB winning Giants all they could handle. In fact, looking back at our 14-4 season, 2 of our losses came in OT, and our other loss came by 2 points on the road against a division rival that went 7-2 in their last 9. The only decisive loss was against the Ravens. It just makes me confident that next year, with an hopefully improved talent base, we can make another push for the SB. I can't wait.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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I hate the Giants. UGH. Lucky ass bastards. A crappy 9-7 team winning the SB with three road wins even though im not sure if NE was the home or road team. Either way, I watched only the second half. Game was boring. Of course, this is the first year in a LONG time that I didnt cheer for either team. Honestly, if it was possible, I would have loved to see a tie. LOL. :)
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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For most of the game I was sitting there stewing and thinking the Niners would have dominated the Patriots.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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For most of the game I was sitting there stewing and thinking the Niners would have dominated the Patriots.
Yep, I agree. I still feel robbed as the Bradshaw fumble would have helped secure a Niners victory in regulation, never allowing the OT debacle to occur. They could have easily been holding the #6 Lombardi trophy this year. Bleh.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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On a side note, I dont know about anyone else but I would love to sign Giants LB Chase Blackburn if we lose Brooks and/or Grant. That guy always makes a big play. Its amazing.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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Even though i was crushed watching the SB (i still can't believe we weren't in it) i did feel a little optimistic after the game.

If you look at the Giants when they were 7-7 and about to be eliminated, they went on a serious run...

-Beat Jets 29-15
-Beat Cowboys 31-14
-Beat Falcons 24-2
-Beat Packers 37-20
-Beat 49ers 20-17 (OT)
-Beat Patriots 21-17

We gave the red-hot Giants SB winning Giants all they could handle. In fact, looking back at our 14-4 season, 2 of our losses came in OT, and our other loss came by 2 points on the road against a division rival that went 7-2 in their last 9. The only decisive loss was against the Ravens. It just makes me confident that next year, with an hopefully improved talent base, we can make another push for the SB. I can't wait.
I still say if Goldson played against the Cowboys, we would have won. Madieu Williams sucked ass that game.
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