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Old 02-06-2012, 05:04 PM    (permalink
DraftSavant
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Redman is not a "solid back in the NFL" by any stretch of the imagination, he's slow as **** with all the burst of a wet sock.

If they go into next year with Redman and a coming-off-of-a-knee-injury Mendenhall as their top 2 backs, then they're going to continue to suck at running the ball.
Not to mention, the OL will likely continue to be dogshit because they're so far over the cap.

But yeah, Arians just totally doesn't like to score points. Prefers yards. Makes total sense.

COACH HATE!!!!!!!!!

This is going to be like Tom Moore getting let go in Pittsburgh for being "too conservative" and "not imaginative" (except backwards) and going on to being considered one of the league's best OCs working with Indy in Peyton.

Players, then plays.

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Old 02-06-2012, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Redman is not a "solid back in the NFL" by any stretch of the imagination, he's slow as **** with all the burst of a wet sock.

If they go into next year with Redman and a coming-off-of-a-knee-injury Mendenhall as their top 2 backs, then they're going to continue to suck at running the ball.
I personally do not like Redman. I never have. I wished Dwyer wasn't so fat so he could take the job since I believe he's the more talented running back of the two, but I'm going to give credit when it is due for Redman. His last two starts of the season were really impressive although it was against the Browns and Broncos. I would really like to move on from Redman and get an upgrade, but the coaches love him. He's like Doug Legursky.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Pittsburgh's redzone woes are quite simple:

1. They can't run the ball. When you can't run the ball, you're gonna have trouble scoring in the redzone.

2. They have small speed WRs. That's great btw the 20s, but in the redzone when those windows close fast, you need some big bodies who can body up and catch passes in traffic. The Steelers don't have that. The only guy who can do it is Heath Miller, but other than him, they lack redzone bodies.


It's really that simple. Bruce Arians got way too much heat in Pittsburgh. Some coordinators deserve to get shitted on (see Greg Manusky), but Arians is one of those coordinators who didn't deserve it.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Pittsburgh's redzone woes are quite simple:

1. They can't run the ball. When you can't run the ball, you're gonna have trouble scoring in the redzone.

2. They have small speed WRs. That's great btw the 20s, but in the redzone when those windows close fast, you need some big bodies who can body up and catch passes in traffic. The Steelers don't have that. The only guy who can do it is Heath Miller, but other than him, they lack redzone bodies.


It's really that simple. Bruce Arians got way too much heat in Pittsburgh. Some coordinators deserve to get shitted on (see Greg Manusky), but Arians is one of those coordinators who didn't deserve it.
Arians grew on me this past season. What pisses me off most about him is that his formations and play calling is VERY predictable. Also, his game planning seemed to be off quite a bit for me. When something was working, he went away from it. He played a huge part in developing the offense, but I'm not sure he was going to take it to the next step. I really hope the Steelers grab 1 or 2 offensive linemen in the draft early in April.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I personally do not like Redman. I never have. I wished Dwyer wasn't so fat so he could take the job since I believe he's the more talented running back of the two, but I'm going to give credit when it is due for Redman. His last two starts of the season were really impressive although it was against the Browns and Broncos. I would really like to move on from Redman and get an upgrade, but the coaches love him. He's like Doug Legursky.
Except, against the Browns and their 30th ranked rush defense, he fumbled twice. And he's not particularly well rounded, which may be the most important thing for a RB in today's NFL.

If Mendenhall were completely healthy, you might be fine. But it usually takes guys, especially RBs, a year from when they first get back on the field to fully recover, if they fully recover at all.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Arians grew on me this past season. What pisses me off most about him is that his formations and play calling is VERY predictable. Also, his game planning seemed to be off quite a bit for me. When something was working, he went away from it. He played a huge part in developing the offense, but I'm not sure he was going to take it to the next step. I really hope the Steelers grab 1 or 2 offensive linemen in the draft early in April.
I think he's developed a bad rep in Pittsburgh bc he was the guy who transitioned Pittsburgh into a passing offense, in a city that loves running the ball.

Yeah you guys need some oline help, but you also need a youth movement on defense. It's going to be interesting to see if Pittsburgh falls into a rebuilding period or if they can bounce back in one draft.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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And knowing the Steelers as an organization, the youth movement on defense will be priority #1. The Steelers without a good defense would be unthinkable to western Pennsylvanians.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Pittsburgh's redzone woes are quite simple:

1. They can't run the ball. When you can't run the ball, you're gonna have trouble scoring in the redzone.

2. They have small speed WRs. That's great btw the 20s, but in the redzone when those windows close fast, you need some big bodies who can body up and catch passes in traffic. The Steelers don't have that. The only guy who can do it is Heath Miller, but other than him, they lack redzone bodies.


It's really that simple. Bruce Arians got way too much heat in Pittsburgh. Some coordinators deserve to get shitted on (see Greg Manusky), but Arians is one of those coordinators who didn't deserve it.
Another thing to note is that Roethlisberger is a big-play, power thrower, and the redzone is about anticipation more than anything. He's very accurate as passing from the pocket, but he needs to understand protections and how his drops synch with routes better to improve his redzone anticipation.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Another thing to note is that Roethlisberger is a big-play, power thrower, and the redzone is about anticipation more than anything. He's very accurate as passing from the pocket, but he needs to understand protections and how his drops synch with routes better to improve his redzone anticipation.
Translation: He needs a guy who is like 6'5 to throw at in the redzone. (Not "to", "at.")
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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I agree the defense needs to get even younger, especially at S. The DL has gotten a lot better and I'm not sure that the Steelers will draft a NT high since Hampton was 12th in defensive snaps per game although it could mean that he's getting older. OLB they are fine. DE they are getting there, though they could use more depth. MLB will need help especially if they let both Foote and Farrior go. I think they keep one of them. Butler loves Sly, but he hasn't taken that step yet. I could see MLB be taken high in the draft, though I like the MLB class next year compared to this year. CB is fine. I don't see them taking a high pick at CB unless someone elite falls like Kirkpatrick.

I rank the Steelers first round needs as, OG, MLB, OT. Hell, OT might not even be that high up there especially since Colon is HOPEFULLY going to stay healthy.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Another thing to note is that Roethlisberger is a big-play, power thrower, and the redzone is about anticipation more than anything. He's very accurate as passing from the pocket, but he needs to understand protections and how his drops synch with routes better to improve his redzone anticipation.
Ben is a different kind of qb. He's not your traditional read the defense anticipate a guy being open and throw it to a spot type of qb.

He actually is pretty piss poor at reading defenses, but he has an uncanny ability to buy time and hit guys who break off their routes. He's probably the best "chaos" qb to ever play the game.

He thrives when the play breaks down, he's the exact opposite of most franchise qbs in that sense.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Hampton absolutely needs replaced. He's 35, typically out of shape at least to start the season, and suffered a knee injury which required surgery, AND will count $8.1 million against the cap next year.

He's toast.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Hampton absolutely needs replaced. He's 35, typically out of shape at least to start the season, and suffered a knee injury which required surgery, AND will count $8.1 million against the cap next year.

He's toast.
Yeah I see him gone or he takes a VERY significant paycut. It sucks that Hoke, Hampton, and Smith are all gone next season potentially. I could see Keisel possibly gone too, though his pay isn't exactly large.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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You knew it was coming though. At least they started to get some depth on the d-line in the last two drafts. Still a lot of work to be done though, pretty much everywhere on the defense.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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They're good at DE. I love Hayward, and Hood is solid. They need secondary help though. Like...a whole new secondary.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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They're good at DE. I love Hayward, and Hood is solid. They need secondary help though. Like...a whole new secondary.
Ike was solid as hell this year. I'm not going to let one bad game base my judgement on him. The young guys at corner also played pretty well that I'm confident in them going into next season. They need to start getting replacements for Clark and Troy ready, though.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Ike was solid as hell this year. I'm not going to let one bad game base my judgement on him. The young guys at corner also played pretty well that I'm confident in them going into next season. They need to start getting replacements for Clark and Troy ready, though.
I've personally never been a big Ike Taylor fan. I think he's a Cover 2 cb who can't catch a cold.

With the safeties getting older and slower, I think you'll start to see those CBs getting more exposed in the future. You probably need another pass rusher too, Harrison is getting old in the tooth.

And somebody needs to tell Woodley to lay off the donuts. He's getting way too fat. I love Woodley, but he needs to lose weight.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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I've personally never been a big Ike Taylor fan. I think he's a Cover 2 cb who can't catch a cold.

With the safeties getting older and slower, I think you'll start to see those CBs getting more exposed in the future. You probably need another pass rusher too, Harrison is getting old in the tooth.

And somebody needs to tell Woodley to lay off the donuts. He's getting way too fat. I love Woodley, but he needs to lose weight.
With a full offseason, I hope Chris Carter can take that next step. Also, Worilds showed something when he played and started in place of Wood and Harrison.

I wouldn't be surprised if a 43 is close to coming to life. I wouldn't like it, but I could see it.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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With a full offseason, I hope Chris Carter can take that next step. Also, Worilds showed something when he played and started in place of Wood and Harrison.

I wouldn't be surprised if a 43 is close to coming to life. I wouldn't like it, but I could see it.
Aren't you guys pretty much a 1 gap 3-4 nowadays anyway? Which is basically a 5-2 defense when you think about it.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
DraftSavant
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Aren't you guys pretty much a 1 gap 3-4 nowadays anyway? Which is basically a 5-2 defense when you think about it.
Nah, they're one of the few NFL teams that are still predominantly a true 2-gap 3-4. They just ran more man coverage and dime sets than in year's past - they used to be just a nickel zone team (predominantly Cover 6 based - which is still their base coverage) that never went dime.

It's pretty much them, the Cardinals (Horton - a PIT guy is their DC), and the Chiefs (with Romeo, a Parcells/Belichick guy) running a true, classic 3-4. Everyone else is just copying Wade.

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Old 02-06-2012, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Nah, they're one of the few NFL teams that are still predominantly a true 2-gap 3-4. They just ran more man coverage and dime sets than in year's past - they used to be just a nickel zone team (predominantly Cover 6 based - which is still their base coverage) that never went dime.

It's pretty much them, the Cardinals (Horton - a PIT guy is their DC), and the Chiefs (with Romeo, a Parcells/Belichick guy) running a true, classic 3-4. Everyone else is just copying Wade.
The more I learn about other team's defenses and all the multiple fronts everyone is using nowadays, the more I realize that there really isn't much of a difference btw base defenses anymore. Almost everyone is multiple front nowadays, and your "base" defense is essentially your nickel defense anyway. Your base is actually more of a sub package now.

You'll see 3 WR sets a lot more than 22 personnel nowadays.

And you can essentially run the same concepts out of an even front or an odd front nowadays anyway.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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The more I learn about other team's defenses and all the multiple fronts everyone is using nowadays, the more I realize that there really isn't much of a difference btw base defenses anymore. Almost everyone is multiple front nowadays, and your "base" defense is essentially your nickel defense anyway. Your base is actually more of a sub package now.

You'll see 3 WR sets a lot more than 22 personnel nowadays.

And you can essentially run the same concepts out of an even front or an odd front nowadays anyway.
Pretty much. I made this post a little over a month ago in this thread:

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Yeah, who has their hand on the ground, who is standing up, etc. really doesn't mean anything.

People have used this example countless times, but Wade Phillips' defense isn't really a 3-4. Defenses are defined by their fronts and gap responsibilities. If a 3-4 team is 1-gapping and lining up shaded in gaps, the responsibilities of the players doesn't really differ (at all) from a 1-gap 4-3. To use Phillips as an example again... his 3-4 over front in Dallas (with Ware at WOLB and Ratliff at RDE), is virtually identical scheme-wise to the 4-3 under front that Tampa would run with Rice and Sapp. The only difference is that Ware stood up.

And it was basically the same thing this year. The only real difference is the flex-side DE with align more as a 4-tech than as a 3-tech and the WOLB is basically playing stand-up wide 9.

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Old 02-06-2012, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Pretty much. I made this post a little over a month ago in this thread:



And it was basically the same thing this year. The only real difference is the flex-side DE with align more as a 4-tech than as a 3-tech and the WOLB is basically playing stand-up wide 9.
I remember a couple of weeks ago I was trying to explain to a friend how the Pats used a lot of bear against the Broncos, and he was like "lulz, you're an idiot, they run a 3-4!!!111"

That was a frustrating conversation.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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I remember a couple of weeks ago I was trying to explain to a friend how the Pats used a lot of bear against the Broncos, and he was like "lulz, you're an idiot, they run a 3-4!!!111"

That was a frustrating conversation.
Frustrating as hell, I assume. I can't really blame the casual fan too much, though, as analysts often have a REALLY shallow understanding of defensive concepts - and they're the ones people rely on to learn about the game.

That bear front was the reason why Wilfork had such a monster game against Baltimore, too. It leaves him 1-on-1 with a completely overmatched center.

Against the Giants, they went back to the same front they used in the regular season against them: with Love at NT, and Wilfork as a shaded-end. Would like to have seen them run some bear fronts last night, as Wilfork would have really overmatched Baas, but BB just wasn't willing to NOT have two deep safeties (and I don't blame him).

Those are the decisions you have to make, though. They didn't fear the DEN or BAL pass game at all, and Belichick felt comfortable going with Cov 1/3 concepts, giving him more versatility with his fronts.

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