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Old 02-08-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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I argued for Cam throughout the entire predraft process like my hair was on fire, but I don't sit around looking for brownie points. For one, it's still to early. Two, the best thing about being right is the feeling you have inside. The moment you seek praise for yourself, you already lose.

...and Gabbert... eeeeeewe. His fans were rare. That's some bad recollection on your part.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's sort of disappointing. you should be able to judge him based on what he did, since it was no different than what he did at missouri. i don't see how excuses about his weapons change that he's exactly the same, piss-poor under anything remotely resembling pressure qb that he was at missouri.
I'm obviously not as high on Gabbert as I was then (and even then, it wasn't exactly that I was high on him as much as I wasn't high on many QB's last year as top 10 picks). Yes, he's been disappointing, no doubt about that, but he was clearly a kid that had tools, but needed work. And yes, it's quite possible that, in rushing him in, he may never develop any more than what he is already. No doubt.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
I'm not going to go as far to say that people are pushing Griffin's stock because of Newton, but there is a part of me that can't help but think some people who were wrong about Newton last year don't want to miss on the next dual-threat NFL QB. For what it's worth, I don't like Griffin nearly as much as I liked Newton last year. I saw (see) running ability as a complementary trait for even the most mobile NFL QBs, with Newton representing the high end of what that can offer. He had a phenomenal season running the ball, but it was his passing on top of that that made his rookie year so special. It wouldn't have surprised anyone to see the same rushing totals along side passing number more along 50%, 2000 yards 12TDs, 15 INTs. And that would have been a good rookie season, but wouldn't have quieted the doubters nearly as much. That's what his supporters probably conservatively anticipated. But I think when people are looking at them, they're saying, "Well, look at how prolific a passer Griffin was in addition to his running - Newton was a runner first, and look how well he's transitioned." But they're just not the same player. Despite having far fewer throws to grade than Griffin, when I watched him pass I saw an NFL QB. Not nearly as many throws as Griffin, but when you watched Newton you saw a huge guy who was a phenomenal athlete and jsut never looked scared or uncomfortable because of that size and athleticism; he has the confidence in himself that makes him just keep playing through plays like he can always come out of it positively - and frequently did. That was the big attraction for me. Terrific runner, big arm, and when pressured had the ability to play through it and succeed. Griffin's got a nice arm, but the size is a huge difference between him and Newton and what it allows them to do. Just because he put up huge yards throwing crossing routes and bombs to the best deep threat in college football doesn't mean Griffin is a better passer. Who was Newton throwing to? Darvin Adams? That and the whole Big 12 vs. SEC defenses angle. I was totally fine with Newton being taken number one overall, but Griffin is a guy who I would let fall to me if I were to take him. He's got some nice traits, but Newton was an elite prospect to me, and Griffin is in that second tier of guys who look like they could be good, but I'm not ransoming a draft to get him.



I agree with about half of that. I wouldn't say Griffin looks any more comfortable in the pocket. If a play is breaking down and the QB is having to scramble either to throw or run, I'm taking Newton every time. Griffin can appear a little skittish at times. And I don't mean to say he looks like he's afraid of getting hit, but almost like he's such a good athlete he can't decide what to do; he starts looking at the rushers and trying to evade each one, instead of just juking the closest guy and either taking off down the field or getting rid of the ball. Getting pressure on Griffin sometimes turns into a game of tackle tag, in other words. I think Newton keeps his eyes downfield better; Griffin's just got way more throws on his resume and looks like a better passer on paper; you see the differences on individual plays if not the entirety of their careers. I didn't really see that kind of stuff with Newton; one of the things I remember liking about him was actually his awareness, and that's something I kinda want to knock Griffin for. Griffin might have a bit more touch to his passes, but I don't think it's a huge difference. If Newton had played in that Baylor offense, he would have put up huuuuuuge numbers.
Bolded part I agree with 100000000%

TACKLE and I have talked about this: something about RG3's movement within the pocket looks....off, for lack of a better word. Is it a problem per se, or is his movement just awkward/different? I don't really know at this point.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
I'm not quite with you there. I think Griffin's footwork is a sticking point. He's just an awkward guy in an out of the pocket. He's more polished because he ran a prolific passing offense but I liked Newton's mechanics a lot more. They're clearly different prospects but both are the dual threat spread types that up until last year, weren't thought of too highly as guys that could transition to elite QBs in the pros. Imo there's no question that RG3's stock is being boosted by Newton's phenomenal success.
This is true. I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before but Griffin's footwork and coordination within the pocket, or lack there of, is probably his biggest weakness at this point. Like you said, there's some awkwardness there and he just doesn't seem comfortable in there at times which is why he sprints out the back of the pocket quite often when his first read isn't there.

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Originally Posted by DraftSavant View Post
Bolded part I agree with 100000000%

TACKLE and I have talked about this: something about RG3's movement within the pocket looks....off, for lack of a better word. Is it a problem per se, or is his movement just awkward/different? I don't really know at this point.
Yes we have. Here we go again lol. I need to stop wondering off half way through making a post before I miss a whole bunch like I just did.


With that said, I do think he's capable of overcoming that with the right coaching and system. He'll just need to be disciplined and trust his footwork opposed to letting his natural instinct take over that will make him want to out-athlete everyone when he feels pressure. Cam's discipline and commitment to staying in the pocket is a big reason he was able to make such improvements as a passer from where he was at Auburn.
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Last edited by TACKLE : 02-08-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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