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Old 02-06-2012, 08:08 PM    (permalink
Nalej
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Who the **** am I kidding. You guys have a few years left with Brady I would go all in getting a player like Vincent Jackson. I think you play maker like that changes everything. Obviously you can address D via draft, FA.
Man, I'm ******* hoping!

Also, I'm thinking that 85 will still be a Pat next year.
Has a year under the belt trying to learn our system.
Give him a full offseason as well... I think he can put up Branch type numbers.
Obviously I'm expecting Branch to be let go.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
Man, I'm ******* hoping!

Also, I'm thinking that 85 will still be a Pat next year.
Has a year under the belt trying to learn our system.
Give him a full offseason as well... I think he can put up Branch type numbers.
Obviously I'm expecting Branch to be let go.
85's cap number is 6 million. He's going to be cut.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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I keep reading that it's 3 million. Where are you getting 6?
Also, I know 3 is still too much but I don't see how he doesn't restructure to stay
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:20 AM    (permalink
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I think 85 had a 6 mill cap figure when he got here, but that was changed iirc. I wouldn't be opposed to getting Vincent Jackson, but I wouldn't break the bank for him either. He just doesn't seem like a team first kinda guy. We do need a deep threat though... Here's a list of free agents:


Early Doucet ARI
Harry Douglas ATL
Eric Weems ATL
Brandon Jones BAL
Roscoe Parrish BUF
Steve Johnson BUF
Wallace Wright CAR
Legedu Naanee CAR
Earl Bennett CHI
Roy Williams CHI
Andre Caldwell CIN
Jerome Simpson CIN
Demetrius Williams CLE
Kevin Ogletree DAL (R)
Laurent Robinson DAL
Eddie Royal DEN
Matt Willis DEN (R)
Bryant Johnson DET
Rashied Davis DET
Derrick Williams DET (R)
Stefan Logan DET (R)
David Anderson - HOU
Anthony Gonzalez IND
Reggie Wayne IND
Pierre Garcon IND
Tiquan Underwood JAC (R)
Mike Sims-Walker JAC
Jerheme Urban KC
Dwayne Bowe - KC
Greg Camarillo MIN
Juaquin Iglesias MIN
Devin Aromashodu MIN
Bernard Berrian MIN
Deion Branch - NE
Wes Welker NE
Matt Slater NE
Marques Colston - NO
Robert Meachem NO

Devin Thomas NYG
Domenik Hixon NYG
Mario Manningham - NYG
Patrick Turner NYJ (R)
Plaxico Burress NYJ
Chaz Schilens OAK
Derek Hagan OAK
DeSean Jackson PHI
Limas Sweed PIT
Jerricho Cotchery PIT
Mike Wallace PIT (R)
Patrick Crayton SD
Craig Davis SD
Vincent Jackson SD
Isaiah Stanback SEA
Ted Ginn Jr SF
Braylon Edwards SF
Josh Morgan SF
Dominique Zeigler SF
Donnie Avery STL
Danny Amendola STL (R)
Brandon Lloyd STL
Micheal Spurlock TB
Justin Gage TEN
Kevin Curtis TEN
Donnie Avery TEN
Lavelle Hawkins TEN
Malcolm Kelly WAS
Roydell Williams WAS


I've highlighed who I'd really like to have...
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:06 AM    (permalink
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Steve Johnson would be great considering how much trouble he gave Darrelle Revis this season and because signing Johnson would weaken the Bills. Pierre Garcon and Robert Meachem would be nice signings. Vincent Jackson is someone who the Patriots may be interested in considering his size and that he torched New England's secondary this season. Paying Jackson may end up being a bad idea considering his multiple arrests though; he seems like a player who might mail it in after his big pay day as well. Brandon Lloyd seems like the most likely option considering his relationship with McDaniels. One sleeper would be Braylon Edwards. Despite his reputation he is an intelligent player with size who can get open downfield, and after his weak 2011 season he could probably be had pretty cheap.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I really considered Edwards for us as well. I just think his inconsistent hands and undisciplined route running would take him out of the equation for us.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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The way I see it there are two possible ways that BB goes forward from this. I have them rated about a 80/20 ratio.

Option 1-Most Likely

Resign Welker
Resign Branch
Resign Anderson
Resign Carter
Sign Brandon Lloyd
Draft heavily on the defensive side

Option 2-Less Likely

Opt not to resign Welker to keep extra cap space
Resign Mark Anderson
Make a big defensive splash in Free Agency-Mario Williams/Brent Grimes etc
Draft BPA including possibly trading up for an impact player, Michael Floyd etc

Both ways are possiblities IMO. Option 1 seems more likely because that is BB's usual way of doing things. However there is a precedence of him making a big splash after a game like this. In 2007 he went out of his way to get Moss, Welker and Stallworth.

The WR issue at the moment is troubling but not as much as the defense. BB may decide to go all out on defense to get better.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Painful. Everything about that game was uninspiring. Miqueues and mistakes combined with zero playmaking ability . . . fun stuff.

BB deserves and award for getting this far despite an atrocious defensive roster. He also deserves a slap for said atrocious defensive roster.

I agree with the sentiment expressed by a few already - forcing the offense to play full field football on every drive is a joke. Bend but don't break is merely a nice way to say we only have enough talent on that side of the ball to cover 20 yards.

Defensive talent, please. White, Ninko, and pretty much everyone not named Wilfork would only see the field on ST for any other teams. Once again I have to wonder what BB saw that made James Sanders expendable. Personnel moves must improve defensively.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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53-man roster projection based on current roster (players in bold are projected to be replaced in the offseason):

1. QB Tom Brady
2. QB Brian Hoyer
3. QB Ryan Mallett
4. RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis
5. RB Stevan Ridley
6. RB Shane Vereen
7. RB Danny Woodhead
8. WR Deion Branch
9. WR Julian Edelman
10. WR Chad Ochocinco
11. WR Matthew Slater
12. WR Tiquan Underwood
13. WR Wes Welker
14. TE Rob Gronkowski
15. TE Aaron Hernandez
16. OT Marcus Cannon
17. OT Matt Light
18. OT Nate Solder
19. OT Sebastian Vollmer
20. OG Logan Mankins
21. OG Rich Ohrnberger
22. OG Brian Waters
23. OG Ryan Wendell
24. C Dan Connolly
25. C Dan Koppen
26. DL Mark Anderson
27. DL Andre Carter
28. DL Markell Carter
29. DL Brandon Deaderick
30. DL Kyle Love
31. DL Myron Pryor
32. DL Alex Silvestro
33. DL Gerard Warren
34. DL Vince Wilfork
35. LB Dane Fletcher
36. LB Niko Koutouvides
37. LB Jerod Mayo
38. LB Rob Ninkovich
39. LB Brandon Spikes
40. LB Jeff Tarpinian
41. LB Tracy White
42. DB Kyle Arrington
43. DB Josh Barrett
44. DB Sergio Brown
45. DB Patrick Chung
46. DB Ras-I Dowling
47. DB James Ihedigbo
48. DB Devin McCourty
49. DB Antwaun Molden
50. DB Sterling Moore
51. K Stephen Gostkowski
52. P Zoltan Mesko
53. LS Danny Aiken

Omissions:

QB Mike Hartline, RB Kevin Faulk, FB Lousaka Polite, WR Britt Davis, OL Kyle Hix, OL Matt Kopa, OL Nick McDonald, OL Donald Thomas, DL Ron Brace, DL Jermaine Cunningham, DL Shaun Ellis, DL Mike Wright, LB Christian Cox, LB Gary Guyton, LB Aaron Lavarias, LB Mike Rivera, DB Nate Jones, DB Ross Ventrone, DB Malcolm Williams
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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For all the rightful talk about the 2 Pats TEs, neither was on field for 3rd and 11 after Welker play. Brady left with 39, 77, 83, 84, 85.
- @GregABedard
This can't possibily be true. What the hell?
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:03 AM    (permalink
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I just tried to mock the Patriots' offseason. Let me know what you think!

New England Patriots
2012 cap space used: $101,827,381
Remaining cap space: $23,172,619



Free agents (blue players are retained, green players are traded, purple players retire):
Mark Anderson
Deion Branch
Andre Carter
Kevin Faulk
Shaun Ellis

Dan Connolly
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Gary Guyton
Brian Hoyer*
James Ihedigbo
Nate Jones
Dan Koppen
Bret Lockett*
Kyle Love**
Niko Koutouvides
Antwaun Molden
Matthew Slater

Gerard Warren
Tracy White
Wes Welker

Patriots cuts:
Lousaka Polite
Mike Wright
Josh Barrett
Rich Orhnberger
Chad Ochocinco

Signed FAs:
Brandon Lloyd, WR, 3 years $8.5 mill. w/$3 mill. guaranteed
Terrell Thomas, CB, 3 years $14 mill. w/$6 mill. guaranteed
Michael Griffin, FS, 5 years $25 mill. w/$13 mill. guaranteed

Draft:
1a. Michael Brockers, DE/DT, LSU (Patriots give up #27 + #48 + future second round pick)
1b. Andre Branch, DE/OLB, Clemson
2. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
3. Tommy Streeter, WR, Miami (Fl.)
4. Shea McClellin, DE/OLB, Boise State

There are undoubtedly some things wrong with this but I guess I needed to start the healing process somewhere and then build on it. How'd you like for this to happen?
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:41 AM    (permalink
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- Why both Lloyd and Colston? It would make more sense just to get one of them considering we only run two WRs in the base offense.

- I wouldn't mind seeing BenJarvus Green-Ellis leave. I think the other 3 RBs bring more to the table.

- What spot did the Patriots trade to get Brockers?

- While I like the first 3 draft picks, I am not a fan of the last two. Streeter is a project receiver and this team doesn't have a lot of patience when it comes to young receivers.

- I don't think it is necessary to draft two DE/OLBs. I would rather have a OG/OC there.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:16 AM    (permalink
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- Why both Lloyd and Colston? It would make more sense just to get one of them considering we only run two WRs in the base offense.

- I wouldn't mind seeing BenJarvus Green-Ellis leave. I think the other 3 RBs bring more to the table.

- What spot did the Patriots trade to get Brockers?

- While I like the first 3 draft picks, I am not a fan of the last two. Streeter is a project receiver and this team doesn't have a lot of patience when it comes to young receivers.

- I don't think it is necessary to draft two DE/OLBs. I would rather have a OG/OC there.
I know getting both Lloyd and Colston is somewhat luxurious but there's a reason for this madness. What we need on offense is threats in the short, the intermediate and the long passing game. We get that this way WITH speed, plus we have two of the best TEs in the game. You have one of the best QBs to ever play the games for maybe 3 or more years. I want to take advantage of that.

I wouldn't mind not re-signing BJGE either, but I think that BB really likes him and wants to keep him around.

I have no idea which specific spot we have to get up to in order to get Brockers, but I'm think somewhere on the 15-20 range. Streeter has tons of upside and would've probably been a early second round pick next year - maybe even a first rounder. He's big, strong and deceptively fast. It's becoming more and more clear that you need big, strong receivers in the modern NFL. We don't have any... Streeter is also good value at this point and should develop nicely with WW, Llyod and Colston as mentors.

I wanted two DE/OLBs because I want the pass rushers to be fresh late in the fourth. I want a rotation of good pass rusher who are not a liability against the run. I feel like we get that this way. Basically, we've fixed the defense if it turns out like this (at least on paper). On top of that we've increased the explosiveness on a already very explosive offense.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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Watching Branch and Carter go would hurt, and it might be a better idea to re-sign Tracy White than Niko Koutouvides from a special teams perspective. Brandon Lloyd seems like he comes a little bit cheap on there relative to what he's expected to be paid. Not a fan of the Colston signing at all considering his extensive history of knee surgeries and injuries; way too big of a risk and commitment to make. Calais Campbell would probably be worth it but it's hard to imagine paying an outsider more money than Wilfork or Mayo. Terrell Thomas seems a little overpaid and so does Michael Griffin. There's no way the Patriots are going to sign that many big-money free agents. The trade-up for Michael Brockers seems like way too much as well; he's getting severely overrated due to his size. If he's available at #27, great, if not, no big deal. He's a limited pass rusher (two career sacks) and a sophomore. New England is projected to trade away three starters for one in that draft. Branch and Harrison Smith would be okay, but Streeter would be a weird fit in New England's offense and the Patriots would already have a number of receiving options there. Shea McClellin would be great but that's at least a round or two after he'll probably go. The team would be stacked if that offseason occurred but it could best be described as ludicrous to project Belichick to sign numerous big-money free agents and trade up with a significant amount of draft picks.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
Razor
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Why is it so unrealistic that McClellin is available in the fourth? Is it his limited upside that intrigues you so much? Or maybe his mediocre athleticism. To me he's a high motor player that is best suited to be a rotational player or a spot starter. Also, I don't see how Streeter does not fit in the Patriots' offense. He's not a polished route runner, but you wouldn't really expect that given his limited experience would you? He has loads of upside which is why I took him. I pondered Koutouvides vs. White for a while, but I just felt like Koutouvides would provide much of the same for a lower cost. I don't think this is overpaying for any of the players. I upped some of their salaries because I didn't want to paint a completely unrealistic picture. Thomas is a very good corner and Griffin is a good safety. We need both and we don't have the time to wait for our own guys to develop.

This whole FA mock was based upon the Patriots needing to make a splash in order to maximize their chances in the short run. The last time BB made a splash was in the wake of the 2006 meltdown against the Colts. I could see BB being aggressive again this year.

Colston was the one guy that I really wasn't sure of, but he will fit here and could bring a lot to this team. I don't care if we already have WW and Lloyd in the fold. Brady needs options on the outside, and Colston is one of the better players outside the numbers.

Lastly, I think you're undervaluing Brockers by a lot. I think he's a perfect scheme fit and has more upside than any other DL in the draft. I don't care that he isn't a good pass rusher at this point, he's only a RS sophomore. Pepper Johnson is good at developing D-linemen and we so need help at DE. Getting both Campbell and Brockers would solidify the DL for years to come and give our OLBs a fighting chance to actually generate consistent pressure.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
Nalej
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CC is getting franchised by AZ though
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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CC is getting franchised by AZ though
Any link to this or are you assuming it?

I would be surprised if they would want to pay top 5 DE money to a guy who is playing 5 tech. And it's not like he's Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith good either.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Any link to this or are you assuming it?

I would be surprised if they would want to pay top 5 DE money to a guy who is playing 5 tech. And it's not like he's Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith good either.
Oh, he's good. To me he's the best 3-4 DE in the league as long as Seymour is playing DT. And it's not even close. He's absolutely dominant at his position, but nobody's noticing it since he's playing in Arizona. I'd happily pay him this amount.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Oh, he's good. To me he's the best 3-4 DE in the league as long as Seymour is playing DT. And it's not even close. He's absolutely dominant at his position, but nobody's noticing it since he's playing in Arizona. I'd happily pay him this amount.
I like Campbell a whole lot but I'm not sure he's worth Dwight Freeney type money.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articl...mpbell/9578810

via CBSports
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Stanford Routt released by Raiders. I don't think we would spend as much on him as he wants, but another corner on the market. I would really like Terrell Thomas.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Stanford Routt released by Raiders. I don't think we would spend as much on him as he wants, but another corner on the market. I would really like Terrell Thomas.
I'd much rather a rookie cornerback. Sign a FA safety.
I still have nightmares of Deltha.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm guessing he doesn't require a big contract since he made a butt ton in guarantees on his previous one, no?
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:15 AM    (permalink
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Stanford Routt released by Raiders. I don't think we would spend as much on him as he wants, but another corner on the market. I would really like Terrell Thomas.
Thomas is my FA CB for the Pats as well. Great fit and a player that is well coached...
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:23 AM    (permalink
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Alright, with Nalej's link and the fact that I just realized that Colston is near 30 I removed both Calais Campbell and Marques Colston from the FA signings. I also adjusted the salary for Michael Griffin. Who else do we sign in FA? No way we're only bringing in three guys.
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