2012 Ravens Draft Thread - Page 11

coordinator0 · 02-27-2012, 10:24 PM

You have a far higher opinion of Jenkins than I do. He doesn't strike me as an impact CB, especially in a man-coverage scheme. We need pass-rushers up front if Pees is as passive as Mattison was, not more coverage guys. The problem we had wasn't that the coverage wasn't holding up long enough, it was that we couldn't get to the QB consistently at all. Now we might be better off with Kruger and McPhee contributing but I would like to get a starter that can put pressure on the QB instead of relying on the sub-package guys.

Ravens1991 · 02-27-2012, 10:30 PM

I guess we can just agree to disagree then. With how quick guys like Brady,Brees etc can get the ball out they can still pick apart a team with a good pass rush but good cornerbacks can prevent the quick passes giving out pass rush time.

A Perfect Score · 02-27-2012, 10:32 PM

I'd rather draft a Whitney Mercilus at 29 then Jenkins.

coordinator0 · 02-28-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Aaron Wilson ‏ @RavensInsider

Expect Ravens to use first-round restricted tenders on cornerbacks Cary Williams and Lardarius Webb. Long-term deals are the eventual goal

Add in Smith and I highly doubt we invest a high draft pick in the position if we do want to lock both Webb and Williams up long-term.

Mercilus is an interesting name to bring up. I've been thinking about his fit for us a lot lately. One-year wonders like him don't seem to be the kind of picks our front office makes in the early rounds though.

A Perfect Score · 02-28-2012, 02:56 PM

No, he isn't the type of player we normally draft and I do think he's better suited to a 4-3 then a 3-4 anyways, I just think it would be nice to have a consistent force opposite T-Sizzle and I certainly wouldn't be upset if we had to use a first rounder to do so.

coordinator0 · 02-28-2012, 02:59 PM

Oh I completely agree with that. A more traditional 3-4 scheme/mentality would be great in my opinion but I'm not sure if we go in that direction. Using a 1st round pick on a pass-rusher that would contribute early on is never a bad idea. Maybe we lose Johnson and Pees changes the defense up a bit. I hate bringing that up over and over again but it's so damn frustrating not knowing what we're going to do.

Ravens1991 · 02-28-2012, 03:25 PM

yea forget Jenkins if we are 1st round tendering Williams. Still Zach Brown is #1 for me at this point

coordinator0 · 02-28-2012, 09:21 PM

Trenton Robinson had a nice showing at the combine. He's my ideal 4th round target. Mostly because I'm a Michigan State homer, but I think he would also be a nice understudy for Reed.

Sloopy · 02-29-2012, 04:36 AM

My problem with drafting someone like merciless in the first round:

Pretty much all we will get here are pure pass rushers, if all we want is a guy who can rush the passer and not drop back into coverage, why not just put Kruger at that spot?

I know there would be potential to get a better pass rusher, but I think you also run the risk of selecting a bust at pass rusher that late in the round.

I'd rather look elsewhere in round one

After Zach Brown's workout there is no doubt that I want him. I know they say don't fall in love with guys at the combine, but I was already head over heals for this guy and he didn't disappoint.

BmoreBlackByrdz · 02-29-2012, 05:18 AM

what's everyone's thoughts on Burfict after that terrible combine showing? Do we will touch him.... say 2nd or 3rd round?

Ray can do amazing things with young players.

Sloopy · 02-29-2012, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BmoreBlackByrdz

what's everyone's thoughts on Burfict after that terrible combine showing? Do we will touch him.... say 2nd or 3rd round?

Ray can do amazing things with young players.

Maybe third, definitely if he lasts until the fourth.

Ravens1991 · 02-29-2012, 04:47 PM

He needs more then Ray Ray. He needs a shrink.

niel89 · 02-29-2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloopy

Maybe third, definitely if he lasts until the fourth.

I concur with this.

coordinator0 · 03-02-2012, 05:22 PM

So, who else is terrified that Hightower is starting to seem like a high possibility in the first round?

TACKLE · 03-02-2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coordinator0

So, who else is terrified that Hightower is starting to seem like a high possibility in the first round?

To be honest with you, at this moment in time (and I'm allowed to change my mind on this) I'd rather have Hightower than Zach Brown. Although I still remember feeling helpless when Hernandez and Gronk running open across the field, I don't know if adding a coverage guy is worth playing a soft player - which I think Brown is. Yes he is highly athletic and in concept he is very appealing. But right now, I just see a guy who avoids contact, runs around blocks instead of taking them on, isn't very instinctive, isn't very smart and doesn't strike me as a leader. The idea of having that highly athletic ILB next to Ray is great but I just don't care for the player. I feel like it could be Tavarres Gooden all over again. A talented athletes whose inability to take on blocks and be physical inside will cause him to struggle. We can have the grandeur ideas about a rover LB role where Brown roams around matching up on slots and athletic TE's but the reality is we're going to be a 3-4 base team that is built on stopping the run first - just like all the other elite defenses in the league.

At least with Hightower you never have any questions about his physicality or his ability to play within the system. He's tough, versatile and honestly probably a bit better athlete than we all gave him credit. He doesn't cover ground as well as we'd like but his instincts and feel in coverage were never in question for me. It's not like I don't see the issues. lord knows I hated that pick for a while but the more I see and the more I think about it, I'm starting to change my tune. Because it looks like we'll be running more basic 3-4 stuff, it's imperative that we get a guy who fits the scheme. I know Hightower seems like more of the same as far as a big, physical LB with questionable speed but I think his talent level is noticeably higher than guys like Ellerbe and McClain. Not to mention if Pees is as vanilla as people are saying (I ******* hope it isn't) having a guy who can win 1-on-1 match-ups in the blitzing is important because there will be less exotic blitzes to open up free runners. To top it all off, he as the leader of what was one of the best defenses in college football history and his mentality just says 'plays like a Raven' to me.

Now I don't think he's a slam dunk pick and I still wish Taze hadn't had this collapse. However, depending on the board, I'm on board with Dont'a and would much rather have him over Brown at this point.

And this isn't all directed towards you coordinator. It's just been something I've been really thinking about a lot lately and wanted to get out there.

bored of education · 03-02-2012, 10:10 PM

wow that is bad ass ninja

Sloopy · 03-02-2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coordinator0

So, who else is terrified that Hightower is starting to seem like a high possibility in the first round?

2 different and surprising thoughts on this actually:

1. Ozzie isn't dumb, if we select Hightower to play in the middle it will mean a scheme change in the future. And/Or Hightower will play next to Ray this year and a more athletic guy will be brought in after the fact; either at OLB or another ILB. my main reason for panning this within other poster's mocks is that they believe he fits the mold of a Ray replacement which he wouldn't be and I would prefer to add speed/athleticism to our D.

2. End of the day, if no worthy OL or ILB prospects are left on the board and we decide to go OLB, Hightower would be the guy that I would want to replace JJ. People have mocked us Ingram, Mercilus, etc. but Hightower is probably the best (and most realistic) fit for an OLB out of all of them if we stick with our current scheme (wouldn't mind Ingram or Upshaw but I doubt they actually makes it to us).

It might actually be pretty sweet:
1. Hightower OLB/ILB
2. Silatolu LG
3. Ben Jones OC
4. Vontaze Burfict ILB Fingers crossed he falls this far for a no brainer pick. He could sit on the bench for a year and learn from Ray.

On a side note, how would you guys feel about Boom Herron in round 5/6? Quick guy who runs tough, could add depth at RB for little cost and could even end up making contributions early in his career.

drd23 · 03-03-2012, 02:50 AM

I agree with TACKLE on the Hightower vs Brown thing and I'm another that thinks that we need more coverage ability out of our LBs.

coordinator0 · 03-03-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

To be honest with you, at this moment in time (and I'm allowed to change my mind on this) I'd rather have Hightower than Zach Brown. Although I still remember feeling helpless when Hernandez and Gronk running open across the field, I don't know if adding a coverage guy is worth playing a soft player - which I think Brown is. Yes he is highly athletic and in concept he is very appealing. But right now, I just see a guy who avoids contact, runs around blocks instead of taking them on, isn't very instinctive, isn't very smart and doesn't strike me as a leader. The idea of having that highly athletic ILB next to Ray is great but I just don't care for the player. I feel like it could be Tavarres Gooden all over again. A talented athletes whose inability to take on blocks and be physical inside will cause him to struggle. We can have the grandeur ideas about a rover LB role where Brown roams around matching up on slots and athletic TE's but the reality is we're going to be a 3-4 base team that is built on stopping the run first - just like all the other elite defenses in the league.

At least with Hightower you never have any questions about his physicality or his ability to play within the system. He's tough, versatile and honestly probably a bit better athlete than we all gave him credit. He doesn't cover ground as well as we'd like but his instincts and feel in coverage were never in question for me. It's not like I don't see the issues. lord knows I hated that pick for a while but the more I see and the more I think about it, I'm starting to change my tune. Because it looks like we'll be running more basic 3-4 stuff, it's imperative that we get a guy who fits the scheme. I know Hightower seems like more of the same as far as a big, physical LB with questionable speed but I think his talent level is noticeably higher than guys like Ellerbe and McClain. Not to mention if Pees is as vanilla as people are saying (I ******* hope it isn't) having a guy who can win 1-on-1 match-ups in the blitzing is important because there will be less exotic blitzes to open up free runners. To top it all off, he as the leader of what was one of the best defenses in college football history and his mentality just says 'plays like a Raven' to me.

Now I don't think he's a slam dunk pick and I still wish Taze hadn't had this collapse. However, depending on the board, I'm on board with Dont'a and would much rather have him over Brown at this point.

And this isn't all directed towards you coordinator. It's just been something I've been really thinking about a lot lately and wanted to get out there.

I would agree more with the Hightower pick if we were in fact going back to some of the more basic 3-4 concepts, but I've yet to see anything besides fan speculation to indicate that. That's not what the defense has been for the past few years and I would say that we've been closer to a 4-3 base mentality. It's hard to say what Pees is going to do though and I think it also depends on who we replace Johnson with at OLB if he leaves. Whatever happens I'm expecting us to continue to use somewhat of a hybrid scheme.

As for Brown I'm starting to cool a bit on him too. We would probably be better off adding a sub-package LB that can cover instead of spending a high pick on Brown. He might have elite potential as a coverage LB but that might be all he could be in our system. I still really want to upgrade the overall athleticism at LB though. Hightower is better than McClain and Ellerbe I really don't think there's much of an argument for that I've just worried all along that we will use Hightower in the same capacity as those two and we'll be worse off for it. I've never had an issue with Hightower's strengths and what he can do on the field, just what he can't do.

Sloopy · 03-03-2012, 05:28 PM

I can somewhat echo your concerns Co.

I am worried about taking Hightower as an ILB as McClain and Ellerbe fill a similar niche of player type. Not to say that they are exactly the same but that they would not fill complimentary roles playing next to each other, but rather the same role.

In short, I feel like a much larger net gain could be made in selecting another position.

I am almost more okay selecting him as an OLB to replace JJ but again, I feel like replacing JJ is lower on the list of needs than, say, a replacement for Grubbs or Birk, even a true LT.

I look at it this way: If no decent OL prospects were left and we weren't sold on any of the remaining ILB prospects, I would be ecstatic to add Hightower as an OLB.

His ability to attack the LOS is certainly reminiscent of JJ and he can rush from the DE position out of the nickel. He provides leadership and might even add better pass rush opposite Suggs than JJ did.

A Perfect Score · 03-03-2012, 07:48 PM

I saw a mock today that had Courtney Upshaw falling to us after his somewhat poor combine showing. I was ecstatic.

TACKLE · 03-03-2012, 11:28 PM

Heading into free agency, this is my most realistic guess I can come up with at this point for what we'll do at 29.

in no order

- Peter Konz
- Dont'a Hightower
- 1st round talent at WR/OLB who fell to us (Alshon, Hill, Wright maybe, Floyd with his character ?, Upshaw, Perry)

-if none of those options are available, a trade down seems like a likely option.

Sloopy · 03-04-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Heading into free agency, this is my most realistic guess I can come up with at this point for what we'll do at 29.

in no order

- Peter Konz
- Dont'a Hightower
- 1st round talent at WR/OLB who fell to us (Alshon, Hill, Wright maybe, Floyd with his character ?, Upshaw, Perry)

-if none of those options are available, a trade down seems like a likely option.

Pretty much. If by some chance Glenn fell to us he might be up at the top of that list but in the most likely and realistic scenario we won't even sniff a chance at him. Same goes for Adams

coordinator0 · 03-04-2012, 07:55 PM

Ronnell Lewis is starting to grow on me as a replacement for Johnson. Earlier I wasn't a big fan of his but now I would be fine with him. Maybe not at 29 though.

coordinator0 · 03-06-2012, 04:05 PM

If we don't get Konz in the first round who is your next on your wishlist? I'm torn between Jones and Brewster. If we're dedicated to running a zone-blocking scheme then Brewster is probably a better fit but if not then Jones would be my top option. I know there are high opinions of Blake and Molk but both have their issues (Blake being older and Molk being short and a Wolverine). Brewster's stock seems to be falling a bit too and if we could get him in the 3rd round that might be my ideal solution to the C position, assuming we don't get Konz.