College Basketball Thread

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Docta

Kansas 7th? It should be in the top 5 just based on history. UConn and Syracuse are products of Boeheim and Calhoun. They wouldn't be that dominate without them. And kids like good weather.

And I'm an Illini fan, but it's not as prestigious as Ohio State and Arizona. I'd put Texas 16th. NC State, Michigan, and Wisconsin are honorable mentions.

Wisconsin? Football comes first there and the high schools are filled with awkward 3 point shooting white kids. It's pretty amazing what Bo Ryan has done there but I don't think it's anything special as a program.

[bearsfan_51]

Yeah I would much rather take the Minnesota job than the Wisconsin job.

[Docta]

The weather part was more aimed at UConn and Syracuse.

And I guess I'm just Big 10 biased.

[JRTPlaya21]

I feel like Florida has to be a top 15 job.

[bearsfan_51]

I could certainly see the argument for Florida, but, man, talk about a job that wasn't worth a damn 10 teams ago...Florida basketball is Billy Donovan.

[MaxV]

Originally Posted by yo123

I don't disagree with the teams you included, but I would bump Indiana up and consider Florida and Texas as well, despite them being football schools.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised that a top 15 would be without those 2 programs.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I could certainly see the argument for Florida, but, man, talk about a job that wasn't worth a damn 10 teams ago...Florida basketball is Billy Donovan.

I don't disagree with you, but the same argument could be made for Duke, Syracuse, UConn, Arizona, and a few others.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by descendency

I don't disagree with you, but the same argument could be made for Duke, Syracuse, UConn, Arizona, and a few others.

Eh....not really. For starters, most of those coaches have been/were at their jobs for 25-30+ years. Donovan has great for about a decade at Florida, but let's see if he's still there in 10-15 years and Florida is playing at a high level. He already almost left Florida once.

Also, while Coach K has made Duke what it is, for example, Duke had made two national championship games before he arrived in 1980 and had made four final fours. That's not a bad program at all. Florida, on the other hand, had only made one final four before Donovan came, and that was in 1994. Syracuse and UConn were both more products of their coaches. But, again, those coaches have been there for decades.

[devinhester=R.O.Y 2006]

I like your list bearfan_51...hard to argue anyone else for the top 15.

If we had to make a similar list for say the Top 10 mid-major jobs who would we add?

Here are a few suggestions, not in any order...

Temple
Butler
Memphis
Creighton
UNLV
Tulsa
Western Kentucky
Gonzaga
San Diego State
Davidson

[MaxV]

Xavier, Iona and BYU.

[Docta]

Davidson's a product of Stephen Curry. Western Kentucky was a one-hit wonder. I'd add in Belmont.

[devinhester=R.O.Y 2006]

Originally Posted by Docta

Davidson's a product of Stephen Curry. Western Kentucky was a one-hit wonder. I'd add in Belmont.

Western Kentucky has been to the NCAA Tournament 22 times and has been to the Sweet Sixteen 7 times.

Davidson has been to the NCAA Tournament 11 times and has been to the Elite Eight 3 times.

Both seem to be very solid mid-major jobs. History backs it up.

[bearsfan_51]

I guess it depends on how one defines mid-major. If it's a program not in a BCS conference I would say:

1) Memphis (this is a clear #1, but again, depends how you define it)
2) UNLV
3) Xavier
4) Dayton
5) BYU
6) Creighton
7) Temple
8) Butler
9) New Mexico
10) Gonzaga
11) UTEP
12) Old Dominion
13) VCU
14) San Diego State
15) Witchita State


Combination of fan support + facilities + historical success

[diabsoule]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I guess it depends on how one defines mid-major. If it's a program not in a BCS conference I would say:

1) Memphis (this is a clear #1, but again, depends how you define it)
2) UNLV
3) Xavier
4) Dayton
5) BYU
6) Creighton
7) Temple
8) Butler
9) New Mexico
10) Gonzaga
11) UTEP
12) Old Dominion
13) VCU
14) San Diego State
15) Witchita State


Combination of fan support + facilities + historical success

Really can't argue with that list.

[bearsfan_51]

I thought about Houston because of their historical success, but the city of Houston just doesn't care about the team, and they haven't been really relevant for years.

[zachsaints52]

Messed upppp

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Yeah I would much rather take the Minnesota job than the Wisconsin job.

Neither makes the list, so I guess it doesn't really matter, but how is Minnesota a better job than Wisconsin?

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

Neither makes the list, so I guess it doesn't really matter, but how is Minnesota a better job than Wisconsin?

I guess the better question is how is either one discernibly better than the other? It's not that Wisconsin has been getting better talent the last 10 years or so, hell the Gophers have had more legitimate NBA prospects, it's that Bo Ryan has been coaching them up and the Gophers have had a collection of jackasses coaching.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

Neither makes the list, so I guess it doesn't really matter, but how is Minnesota a better job than Wisconsin?

Better recruiting ground, more of a basketball school.

[yo123]

Also, talk about a program that was a joke before the current coach got there. In the 50 years before Bo go there they made the tournament 4 times.

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by yo123

I guess the better question is how is either one discernibly better than the other? It's not that Wisconsin has been getting better talent the last 10 years or so, hell the Gophers have had more legitimate NBA prospects, it's that Bo Ryan has been coaching them up and the Gophers have had a collection of jackasses coaching.

Well the main criteria seems to be tournament success, and Wisconsin clearly tops Minnesota there.

Minnesota
NCAA TOURNAMENT HISTORY
Final Fours 1
Tournament Record 12-11
Championship Seasons None
Tournament Appearances 11

Wisconsin
NCAA TOURNAMENT HISTORY
Final Fours 2
Tournament Record 23-16
Championship Seasons 1941
Tournament Appearances 17

Yeah, most of that was under Bo Ryan, but it's the same thing as Donovan in Florida(minus the championships). Bo Ryan rebuilt the program, but now that it is rebuilt a new coach should be able to have success there too.

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Better recruiting ground, more of a basketball school.

It's more of a basketball school only because the football program sucks. It's not like when you think of basketball schools you think of Minnesota.

And there's no recruiting edge. Bo Ryan has had no problem pulling kids out of Minnesota. 3/5ths of Wisconsin's starting lineup this year is from Minnesota.

[bearsfan_51]

Those were all kids without Minnesota offers. Kids in Minnesota will choose Minnesota over Wisconsin almost all of the time. That's my whole point. Wisconsin is beating Minnesota with players that Minnesota didn't even want. Our talent is almost always superior to Wisconsin, we're just consistently out-coached.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

Yeah, most of that was under Bo Ryan, but it's the same thing as Donovan in Florida(minus the championships). Bo Ryan rebuilt the program, but now that it is rebuilt a new coach should be able to have success there too.

I don't think it's the same situation, kids who go to Florida still get to go to college in Florida, good weather, girls, it's not Wisconsin, etc. Wisconsin would have a much harder time sustaining a coaching change, especially because a larger amount of their success is because of Ryan's actual coaching as opposed to accumulating talent like Donovan.

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by yo123

I don't think it's the same situation, kids who go to Florida still get to go to college in Florida, good weather, girls, it's not Wisconsin, etc. Wisconsin would have a much harder time sustaining a coaching change, especially because a larger amount of their success is because of Ryan's actual coaching as opposed to accumulating talent like Donovan.

Well then stay in Wisconsin, and look at Marquette. That program fell off quite a bit from its championship until Tom Crean got there. Then Crean built the program back up, and was hired away by Indiana. Buzz Williams stepped right in and is continuing that success. Not exactly the same situation, but it's not like it's impossible to sustain success in the state. Most of the kids come from the midwest anyway.

And Minnesota has the same weather or maybe even worse weather than Wisconsin, so it's not an advantage either way there.

EDIT: You could also look at Wisconsin's football program. That was nothing until Barry Alvarez got there, and now it's one of the better jobs in college football. (Don't want to start a debate of the best football jobs, but you can't deny that it's a good job now)

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Those were all kids without Minnesota offers. Kids in Minnesota will choose Minnesota over Wisconsin almost all of the time. That's my whole point. Wisconsin is beating Minnesota with players that Minnesota didn't even want. Our talent is almost always superior to Wisconsin, we're just consistently out-coached.

I don't follow college basketball recruiting, so I have no idea how good of a prospect he was, but how did Minnesota not even offer Jordan Taylor?

[bearsfan_51]

Jordan Taylor barely had any offers. One from Wisconsin and one from Green Bay. That's it.