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Old 03-20-2012, 10:00 PM    (permalink
ChiFan24
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Doesn't Spielman make it known who he's drafting every single year? I can always call their pick before it's made, because there are always reports that they want the guy ahead of time. Called Ponder, Chris Cook and Percy Harvin.

Point being, if he says he likes Claiborne better, he probably likes Claiborne better. Unless he suddenly figured out what a smokescreen is.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChiFan24 View Post
Doesn't Spielman make it known who he's drafting every single year? I can always call their pick before it's made, because there are always reports that they want the guy ahead of time. Called Ponder, Chris Cook and Percy Harvin.

Point being, if he says he likes Claiborne better, he probably likes Claiborne better. Unless he suddenly figured out what a smokescreen is.
Doesn't happen this early though.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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This is also the first draft that Spielman has complete control over. When Childress was head coach, he had the final say on all roster moves(which was absolutely ******** BTW), and last year he and Frazier were supposed to work together in an equal partnership(which was just about as ******** as having Childress have the final say).
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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honestly, does it matter? they're in prime position to grab a premiere CB or LT, both of which are MASSIVE needs. they'll pick whoever they think is the better player.
You can get CBs through free agency whereas good or better LTs rarely see the light of day when it comes to free agency.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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This better be a damn smoke screen
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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This better be a damn smoke screen
This is the same team that decided the best way to fill several holes on the roster was to pay a backup Tight End, who didn't play a single snap in 2011, 25 million dollars.

good luck
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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The more I research this, the more it seems like Spielman is actually against the idea of spending a premium pick on a LT. Maybe it's only because I agree with that line of thinking, but I don't think this is a smokescreen. You don't go on about how LT isn't that important and then spend the #3 pick on a LT. This is more like Spielman trying to keep fans from calling for his head when he passes on Kalil for Claiborne or Blackmon.

On the other hand.....their LT is Charlie Johnson. They need to fix that.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:20 AM    (permalink
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Don't the Vikings still run the Tampa 2?
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:31 AM    (permalink
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I have Claiborne as the 4th best player in the draft behind the two Quarterbacks and Trent Richardson. I don't see the "all pro" player in Kalil that some do and actually think Reiff will be the better pro.

If I were the vikes, I'd take Claiborne.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:55 AM    (permalink
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Don't the Vikings still run the Tampa 2?
Yeah. I have no idea what's going on with their DC situation though....
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:02 AM    (permalink
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This is the same team that decided the best way to fill several holes on the roster was to pay a backup Tight End, who didn't play a single snap in 2011, 25 million dollars.

good luck
The #2 TE plays over 60% of the snaps in the Vikings offense, so that wouldn't be considered a backup. Do I think $25m is too much for Carlson? Absolutely, but he is going to be seeing the field a lot, as much as some teams #1 TE.
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:13 AM    (permalink
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I don't see what the big deal about Carlson's deal is. Its not 25 million guaranteed, its 11 million. They have a young QB and bringing in another good TE as a target will help Ponder IMO. It's not like Carlson is some terrible player, he was actually very good - he had an injury last year and checked out medically before the signing.

The Claiborne /Kalil thing has to be smoke screen. Spielman will build the offense around Ponder. Say what you want about the value of a LT in today's NFL but someone needs to protect the QB. The Vikings o-line is terrible. Draft Kalil in the first and pick up a CB in the second.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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A left tackle is only worth whatever the quarterback he's protecting is worth. A left tackle's value is only enhanced because of what his job function is... to protect the blindside of the quarterback.

The worth of a QB isn't dependent upon other positions.

An elite left tackle is completely worthless unless he's protecting an elite quarterback.

People say that the left tackle position is "#2" behind the QB position in terms of how it determines the quality of the football team. Problem is, they don't take into account the size of the gap between "#1" and "#2" on the priority list. It's the Grand Canyon between the two.

An elite left tackle without an elite quarterback is nothing but a coach killer. You don't have to invest that heavily to find a left tackle you can win with.

Quarterback is a different story.
By this logic, every team that doesn't have an elite QB should just quit trying. Every position is worthless without an elite QB right?

Or, take any elite player you can, so they are in place if you are able to pick up that elite signal caller.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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how many of those teams had shut down #1 CB? the Packers maybe? Saints had a few good ones, none as good as Claiborne. the logic cuts both ways. in some sense the only position that matters is QB.
Uh? The Saints didn't really have much going on at CB:

However:

2007 Pats - Asanta Samuel (Not a SB winner but it's worth noting during a perfect regular season)

2004 Pats - Asante Samuel and Ty Law

2003 Pats - Asante Samuel and Ty Law

2002 Bucs - Ronde Barber

Also, the two Steelers SB teams and the Packers SB team had excellent safety help.

This is a passing league and DBs of any position are quite valuable.

I will also point out that the Pats, arguably the best dynasty of this era, won all 3 of their SBs with excellent CBs.

I won't try to argue that the CB position is a predictor of SBs but I just figured I would throw in my two cents about those teams not having #1 type corners.

However, I WILL say that defense has been a great predictor of SBs and definitely more so than LTs.

All but the Colts and Saints and the most recent Giants win, heavily relied on their defense and even the Colts Giants and Saints D had to step up in the playoffs to make it possible.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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It's 100% smokescreen. Speilman never lets info like this out, he's just trying to get the Bucs to think they have to trade up from 5 I'm sure.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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This is the same team that decided the best way to fill several holes on the roster was to pay a backup Tight End, who didn't play a single snap in 2011, 25 million dollars.

good luck
Actually, Carlson's deal is really only a 2 year $11 million deal that based on performance could become a 5 year $25 million deal. Link

And as Taber pointed out, the Vikings averaged 1.62 TE per snap last year, meaning that Carlson won't be a backup in any sense of the word, especially given that Rudolph is the only other worthwhile TE on the roster and is only in his 2nd year and will still be learning.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I would LOVE to have Claiborne, I think he's gonna be a stud, but drafting Kalil fixes two positions, since you can then kick Charlie Johnson into left guard. We could completely solidify the left side of our line there, and I don't think that it is worth passing on that for a stud corner. We need to make the smart pick here and protect Ponder. He looked good when he had time last year, which was not very often. The dude got hammered every game. Gotta give the quarterback confidence and time to develop, and Claiborne does not do that.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Uh? The Saints didn't really have much going on at CB:
And, Jabari Greer continues to be one of the most underrated CBs in the league.

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Doesn't Spielman make it known who he's drafting every single year? I can always call their pick before it's made, because there are always reports that they want the guy ahead of time. Called Ponder, Chris Cook and Percy Harvin.
I'm pretty sure the Vikings really wanted Patrick Robinson over Chris Cook in the draft and were really shocked when the Saints selected him with the last pick of the first round.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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The teams picking #3, #4, #5, and #6 are all wearing their poker faces right now.

Those picks stand to be: Kalil, Claiborne, Richardson and Blackmon.

If any team wants Kalil or Claiborne it looks like they have to trade up with the Vikings. They are probably safe waiting on the other two players for at least one pick.

I don't see any smokescreen.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:29 AM    (permalink
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By this logic, every team that doesn't have an elite QB should just quit trying. Every position is worthless without an elite QB right?.

Yes and yes.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:50 AM    (permalink
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Yes and yes.
Joe Flacco and Alex Smith were the starting quarterbacks in the conference championships.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:55 AM    (permalink
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Joe Flacco and Alex Smith were the starting quarterbacks in the conference championships.

Who were the two starting left tackles in the superbowl?


BTW... cool story bro.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:23 AM    (permalink
TACKLE
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TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TACKLE is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by JHL6719 View Post
Who were the two starting left tackles in the superbowl?


BTW... cool story bro.
straw man.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:31 AM    (permalink
TitanHope
Website Contributor
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TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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BTW... cool story bro.
Don't be like Ness.
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Still Team The Ke$ha!!!

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Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) View Post
Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
Crazy_Chris
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Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Crazy_Chris is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
I'm pretty sure the Vikings really wanted Patrick Robinson over Chris Cook in the draft and were really shocked when the Saints selected him with the last pick of the first round.
Yep, Chirs Cook was actually their 3rd choice that year. They were reportedly on the Phone with Kyle Wilson when the Jets selected him. Then they thought they could trade down a few spots and would still get Patrick Robinson.
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