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Old 03-21-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Principle? Did he fight the speeding ticket?
I already said, we were just trying to get to our destination in Philadelphia. He never fought the ticket. At the time we just wanted to get out of there.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:28 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by raiderz4life View Post
I always figured if they pull you over just comply with whatever they ask. Trying to challenge the police in any way shape or form is usually a losing battle unless you have some connection or cash.
Well the cops can keep you there as long as they like until you exercise your right. If you aren't being detained, you are free to leave. I would just keep asking that after the initial procedure of handing over your driving information. If you don't say anything, they can just keep making you "cooperate" for as long as they see fit.

"Am I being detained? Am I free to leave"?

Of course, that is if I feel like something is wrong and I'm being kept there longer than I need to be.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I have been pulled over three times in my life. Everytime the officer approached my car and asked for license, registration, and proof of insurance. I provided him/her with all three. The officer then told me why I was being pulled over and either gave me a ticket or warning and let me go on my way. The officers have always been cordial and never rude about it. If you give them lip or begin to ask questions that is when you generally run into trouble.

There can be tons of reasons they can pull you over. Many reasons that you don't even know about. Just go along...generally you get off without any punishment.

Now as for that video. Clearly this lady is a troll. First off there are usually checkpoints around where I live (especially close to bars) during holidays that are associated with drinking. They dont stop every car...usually at random. Simply they ask the same questions as when being pulled over. You have two options...give them your info, or fight them. When you fight...you get arrested. When you don't you get to leave and go home. Pretty simple really.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Being defiant just because you feel you're being profiled is ******* stupid. If you have a problem with the way it was handled, file a complaint with the police department. Then and there is not a good time to ***** and moan about an old white guy (guess he wasn't the only one profiling, huh?). You're lucky he didn't arrest you and take you in for failure to show proper identification.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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I already said, we were just trying to get to our destination in Philadelphia. He never fought the ticket. At the time we just wanted to get out of there.
What does "wanting to get out of there" have to do with his legal right to challenge the validity of the traffic violation? He didn't have to stay in the Dakota's to do that.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Well the cops can keep you there as long as they like until you exercise your right. If you aren't being detained, you are free to leave. I would just keep asking that after the initial procedure of handing over your driving information. If you don't say anything, they can just keep making you "cooperate" for as long as they see fit.

"Am I being detained? Am I free to leave"?

Of course, that is if I feel like something is wrong and I'm being kept there longer than I need to be.
Well yea, if they're taking forever, I would exercise that right too. I'm just saying even if I know I'm being profiled, I will try to make it as easy for me as possible and trying to, i guess "challenge" them, would make it a hassle.


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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Being defiant just because you feel you're being profiled is ******* stupid. If you have a problem with the way it was handled, file a complaint with the police department. Then and there is not a good time to ***** and moan about an old white guy (guess he wasn't the only one profiling, huh?). You're lucky he didn't arrest you and take you in for failure to show proper identification.
What MexSox said lol
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sbh15 View Post
one of my good friends (he's black) was coming back from somewhere off of our school's campus (off campus it gets pretty hickish) with 4 other black people in the car. a cop pulled them over for going 7 over (72 in a 65). Then she patted down the driver without giving them a reason and a second cop arrived and, according to my friend, said "we got a real diverse car here" and asked what they were doing and the like.

in the end the cops let them go without a ticket or anything, but basically would seem like cops can get away with pretty much anything they like.
The cops were definitely justified in pulling them over. Now the pat down/frisk is where it gets tricky. If there is probable cause that they might have had a weapon on them, the cops are allowed to frisk. It's a slippery slope. The cops may have had there reasons but your friends certainly had a defense.

People have to remember that a cop's life is on the line all the time. Other than serving the community and stopping crime, etc......there number 1 goal is to go home alive.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by StripedWalrus View Post
Now as for that video. Clearly this lady is a troll. First off there are usually checkpoints around where I live (especially close to bars) during holidays that are associated with drinking. They dont stop every car...usually at random. Simply they ask the same questions as when being pulled over. You have two options...give them your info, or fight them. When you fight...you get arrested. When you don't you get to leave and go home. Pretty simple really.
Doesn't matter. Arrested for obstruction of justice? LOL so she was lying? What was she lying to the police officer about? How did the officer figure this out? What allowed the officer to search her vehicle when she clearly gave the authorities no consent? She didn't commit any crimes. She can't be arrested for refusing to identify herself...especially if she is legally parked. Even if she wasn't, that isn't what she was apparently arrested for. That is why the case was thrown out immediately.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Unless you're being grossly mistreated, arguing with a police officer after being stopped is just going to give you a big headache. Give them your insurance, etc, and take what they give you. If you want to dispute the ticket you can do so, but arguing with them on the spot is never going to end well for you.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Being defiant just because you feel you're being profiled is ******* stupid. If you have a problem with the way it was handled, file a complaint with the police department. Then and there is not a good time to ***** and moan about an old white guy (guess he wasn't the only one profiling, huh?). You're lucky he didn't arrest you and take you in for failure to show proper identification.
Right, because you can be arrested for failing to show identification without reason for being pulled over? We didn't resist. We simply asked and were denied reasoning. You are telling me if an officer asks for our license and registration first, and we simply ask right after why we are being pulled over, we'll be arrested? That will fly in court? And I couldn't be arrested anyways, since I was the passenger.

Oh and terrible wisecrack. I guess you clearly understand what profiling meant in this context.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 03-21-2012, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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and as far as taking sides, I'm not trying to. If your friend felt that he was pulled over illegally and "profiled" then unfortunately he waived his right to challenge that fact by pleading guilty to a traffic violation by paying the fine.

As it relates to the 4th Amendment and "searching my house."... If the officer had a legal warrant then (although I'd be upset) the officer would have every right to search my property and I would let him. This is the same as the officer asking for license and registration. He had the right to do so.

I'm not saying that the officer didn't profile you. If he did it's wrong. However, as I mentioned before, the police have almost limitless "cause" for pulling any and every driver over that they wish.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't matter. Arrested for obstruction of justice? LOL so she was lying? What was she lying to the police officer about? How did the officer figure this out? What allowed the officer to search her vehicle when she clearly gave the authorities no consent? She didn't commit any crimes. She can't be arrested for refusing to identify herself...especially if she is legally parked. Even if she wasn't, that isn't what she was apparently arrested for. That is why the case was thrown out immediately.
Her refusal to provide license and registration gave the officer "cause" to search her vehicle. He handled it terribly, however. He should've explained this to her. She then would have the right to refuse his request for a search. He then has a choice. He can send her on her way, or he can detain her until a warrant for legal search can be obtained.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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What does "wanting to get out of there" have to do with his legal right to challenge the validity of the traffic violation? He didn't have to stay in the Dakota's to do that.
Nothing. I'm just saying we wanted to go about our business. By the time the entire trip was done he either forgot or let it go.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Right, because you can be arrested for failing to show identification without reason for being pulled over? We didn't resist. We simply asked and were denied reasoning. You are telling me if an officer asks for our license and registration first, and we simply ask right after why we are being pulled over, we'll be arrested? That will fly in court? And I couldn't be arrested anyways, since I was the passenger.

Oh and terrible wisecrack. I guess you clearly understand what profiling meant in this context.
Not 100% sure but I actually think it's the law to have identification on you at all times. So I think you can get arrested. Plus if you were driving and didn't want to give him your drivers license, he could easily say that you were operating a vehicle without a license.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Nothing. I'm just saying we wanted to go about our business. By the time the entire trip was done he either forgot or let it go.
But you didn't forget for SIX YEARS? He forgot almost immediately but you've been angry about it for six years?

To me, I believe you have animosity towards this situation that is expounded by numerous other factors, not just this incident.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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and as far as taking sides, I'm not trying to. If your friend felt that he was pulled over illegally and "profiled" then unfortunately he waived his right to challenge that fact by pleading guilty to a traffic violation by paying the fine.

As it relates to the 4th Amendment and "searching my house."... If the officer had a legal warrant then (although I'd be upset) the officer would have every right to search my property and I would let him. This is the same as the officer asking for license and registration. He had the right to do so.

I'm not saying that the officer didn't profile you. If he did it's wrong. However, as I mentioned before, the police have almost limitless "cause" for pulling any and every driver over that they wish.
I was just talking about your earlier comment of "If you have nothing to hide, let me do so and so". I mean personally, that justification is ridiculous.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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At the end of the day. Whats the point of arguing? What do you gain from making life harder for yourself and the police officer? Self pride... thats ********.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I was just talking about your earlier comment of "If you have nothing to hide, let me do so and so". I mean personally, that justification is ridiculous.
Ridiculous without a warrant yes. But if the officer has legal right (which would be a warrant in this example, or asking for license and registration in the previous) fighting it would be unjustified.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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But you didn't forget for SIX YEARS? He forgot almost immediately but you've been angry about it for six years?

To me, I believe you have animosity towards this situation that is expounded by numerous other factors, not just this incident.
^^^^

This.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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Right, because you can be arrested for failing to show identification without reason for being pulled over? We didn't resist. We simply asked and were denied reasoning. You are telling me if an officer asks for our license and registration first, and we simply ask right after why we are being pulled over, we'll be arrested? That will fly in court? And I couldn't be arrested anyways, since I was the passenger.

Oh and terrible wisecrack. I guess you clearly understand what profiling meant in this context.
What part of "it's a LAW to properly identify yourself when being asked to do so by a peace officer" do you not understand? It's not a matter of resisting. It's about running your name through the system to see if there are any warrants or as a background check. I didn't say he would arrest you immediately, but if you're sitting there talking back refusing to cooperate he'll then ask you to step out of the car, and it's all downhill from there.

Quit acting like a victim and just cooperate with the damn officer and you won't have issues. You have a much better case against them if you act properly and you're mistreated, than if you automatically get all defensive and start arguing with them.


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Not 100% sure but I actually think it's the law to have identification on you at all times. So I think you can get arrested. Plus if you were driving and didn't want to give him your drivers license, he could easily say that you were operating a vehicle without a license.

Thank you.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Ridiculous without a warrant yes. But if the officer has legal right (which would be a warrant in this example, or asking for license and registration in the previous) fighting it would be unjustified.
Oh of course. You didn't say that earlier though so...
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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What part of "it's a LAW to properly identify yourself when being asked to do so by a peace officer" do you not understand? It's not a matter of resisting. It's about running your name through the system to see if there are any warrants or as a background check. I didn't say he would arrest you immediately, but if you're sitting there talking back refusing to cooperate he'll then ask you to step out of the car, and it's all downhill from there.

Quit acting like a victim and just cooperate with the damn officer and you won't have issues. You have a much better case against them if you act properly and you're mistreated, than if you automatically get all defensive and start arguing with them.
If you are out on the street you don't have to show your ID to a police officer. It's your legal right. If you are operating a motor vehicle, yes.

I never said anything about arguing and getting defensive. You can still enforce your rights if you feel like you need to in a calm and orderly matter. Obviously you can't do anything about it at the time. You can file a report later. But that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to ask questioned when an officer pulls you over while you are cooperating. Especially asking the question of why you were pulled over in the first place, not having to be taken back to a squad car, and then after 15 minutes of questioning, then be told why you were stopped in the first place.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Not 100% sure but I actually think it's the law to have identification on you at all times. So I think you can get arrested. Plus if you were driving and didn't want to give him your drivers license, he could easily say that you were operating a vehicle without a license.
Not here in California and most states. If you are walking down the street, sitting on your porch, sitting in a restaurant, etc. you aren't required to have any ID. Tell me what law that is.

Driving a car, that's different.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Her refusal to provide license and registration gave the officer "cause" to search her vehicle. He handled it terribly, however. He should've explained this to her. She then would have the right to refuse his request for a search. He then has a choice. He can send her on her way, or he can detain her until a warrant for legal search can be obtained.
The video has also been cut and pasted around to serve the focus of views of the narrator. We don't hear everything that has been said. For all we know he did explain this too her. She does deny a search of her car I think a couple times. However, they are then allowed to search the car of things that are in plain site after they have arrested her...which in this case is for obstruction of justice.

Things don't seem to be adding up. I don't know the specific situation on this video...but generally you have to have it advertised before hand that there is a traffic block in the area. She had alot of information at hand ready for the road block. It seemed that she was ready to contest the police officer. I feel as though she drove to the road block to fight with the officer to get arrested so that she would cause a scene.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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If you are out on the street you don't have to show your ID to a police officer. It's your legal right. If you are operating a motor vehicle, yes.

I never said anything about arguing and getting defensive. You can still enforce your rights if you feel like you need to in a calm and orderly matter. Obviously you can't do anything about it at the time. You can file a report later. But that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to ask questioned when an officer pulls you over while you are cooperating. Especially asking the question of why you were pulled over in the first place, not having to be taken back to a squad car, and then after 15 minutes of questioning, then be told why you were stopped in the first place.
Can you just tell me, WHAT IS THE POINT? Why would you want to put yourself through the stress of arguing when you can just whip out your ID and be on your way. Im struggling to see why you would want to make things difficult.
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