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Old 03-12-2012, 06:17 AM    (permalink
SolidGold
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Fleener is easily the best TE in this draft. He will probably run a mid 4.6 40. He was the best offensive weapon for his team last year. Both Dwayne Allen and Orson Charles have not had the best predraft workouts. Charles ran a 4.75/4.90 at his pro day and Allen ran in the 4.9 range at the combine. Pretty unremarkable for players that could be picked in late round 1/early round 2.

When I think one dimensional TE - I think Jimmy Graham - an absolute mismatch/receiving threat in the passing game but is not asked to block (probably more due to the offensive scheme than his capabilities).
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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I think in the Stanford system it was expected that you would block. Fleener sort of became the only real deep threat there as the season went on so his blocking may be brought into question but it isnt a question mark as if he were a Gresham or a Hernandez.

If he's healthy and the track is good i expect a high 4.5 for his pro day.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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I fully expect him to run in the high 4.7's, people are way over estimating his 40 time. He is a solid 2nd rounder but there is nothing elite about him. Just a hard worker who lucked out by having Luck throwing him the ball.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I fully expect him to run in the high 4.7's, people are way over estimating his 40 time. He is a solid 2nd rounder but there is nothing elite about him. Just a hard worker who lucked out by having Luck throwing him the ball.
Well he was running away from our 4.7 corners for the U of Wash. so there is that. Probably going to get into that early second now that the Giants have got themselves another TE. New England is always an option but how many TEs do they need. Cleveland, Pittsburgh...could suprise in the first.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I thought when Owusu got hurt he could have stepped up more. Quite like him - but that put me off. Might be more of a complimetary target than "the man" like some of these young TE's in the league.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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I thought when Owusu got hurt he could have stepped up more. Quite like him - but that put me off. Might be more of a complimetary target than "the man" like some of these young TE's in the league.
To be fair though without Owusu, there weren't any other offensive threats so Fleener got most of the attention from defenses. He would get double covered a good amount. He could clear the defense deep and let Whalen and Ertz to damage underneath. When Ertz was down too Fleener had to fill in to Ertz role also which was more of a underneath pass catcher instead of his normal down the field threat.

Another thing worth noting is that Fleener wasn't on the field for as many snaps as you'd think. Depending on the play/formation, he wouldn't be out there. Ertz and Toilolo were better blockers so they were in for more obvious running downs. I'd often wonder why he wasn't in during some games. I wish we had a play count for all players.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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I fully expect him to run in the high 4.7's, people are way over estimating his 40 time. He is a solid 2nd rounder but there is nothing elite about him. Just a hard worker who lucked out by having Luck throwing him the ball.
Mhm.

Unofficial 4.45.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Yeah but I'm sure the fast track shaved off 3/10ths of a second.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Yeah but I'm sure the fast track shaved off 3/10ths of a second.
Probably wind aided too but who cares really. This reaffirms this guy can flat fly for a TE. Who was the guy who thought he was a 4.7 guy? Eye test dont lie.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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I had predicted he'd run a 4.7 or so and was very surprised. Lots of Stanford players are killing it though. Unfortunately it's very difficult to tell how inflated the numbers are because the players who ran at the Combine aren't running today. For what it's worth, Owen Marecic improved by .14 seconds at his pro day. Regardless, Fleener should have established himself as the top tight end especially following Orson Charles' legal troubles and Dwayne Allen's 40 time.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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yes hes the top tight end. yes he's 1 dimensional. I dont see a 1st round pick in his future, even with the great pro day.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Ooops. High 4.7's huh? Honestly when you watch Fleener on film he's a 4.5 guy. He runs away from DB's and torches LBs down the seam... And he just proved that and then some.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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The 40 is probably a little inflated because of the pro day setting but he is fast. He is pretty 1 dimensional, but is easier to teach a TE to be a decent blocker than to teach him that speed and athleticism. I don't think his draft stock helped that much but he is still solid late 1st early 2nd & the #1 TE.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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yes hes the top tight end. yes he's 1 dimensional. I dont see a 1st round pick in his future, even with the great pro day.
A lot of guys in college weren't asked to block so that area can be worked on. Stanford TEs actually do block.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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But... yeah. He's a terrible blocker.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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A lot of guys in college weren't asked to block so that area can be worked on. Stanford TEs actually do block.
I guess he could sneak into the rd with SF. not alot of TE need in rd 1 (NYG signed Bennett)
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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I guess he could sneak into the rd with SF. not alot of TE need in rd 1 (NYG signed Bennett)
I'm not sure that a 1 year deal with Bennett would stop them from drafting Fleener if they actually like him. Fleener bumped up his stock, but I agree there just aren't that many teams that need a 1st round TE. It would even be a luxury pick for SF.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Now that a stop watch confirms what we saw on the field can people get around to watching the video posted on the first page that addresses this "doesn't/shouldn't/can't/won't block" deal?
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure that a 1 year deal with Bennett would stop them from drafting Fleener if they actually like him. Fleener bumped up his stock, but I agree there just aren't that many teams that need a 1st round TE. It would even be a luxury pick for SF.
EVEN for San Francisco? Ya think? Hahaha. Yeah, drafting any player to play behind another elite player in his prime is pretty much the definition of a luxury pick. Unless you look at Fleener as basically a huge wide receiver you can line up anywhere, and not as Vernon Davis's backup. Somebody needs to jsut come up for a name for these guys. I mean, seriously. Fleener really isn't a true tight end to me, he's a wideout who's so huge he can line up next to the tackle with his hand down. The Jimmy Graham, Antonio Gates, Aaron Hernandez, Fleener-type players really aren't the kind of guys you want to run the ball behind (Davis and Gronk are, fwiw - thus "true" tight ends in my book), but... there's not really anything else to call them. You know, I guess I'm just being dumb. The fact is just that tight ends play more like wide receivers these days. I suppose I think about it in terms of salary and whatnot, and what a player's job description is. I mean, I love Fleener's speed, and he looks good catching the ball, but MAN is he a lousy blocker. It's not really as though he doesn't give an effort, he just can't lock anyone up and you don't see him knocking anyone down.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Mhm.

Unofficial 4.45.

That's Vernon Davis territory. I wonder which team ends up drafting him??
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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That's Vernon Davis territory. I wonder which team ends up drafting him??
Vernon Davis ran a 4.38 at the combine, didn't he? Davis is pretty much the standard for freak tight ends for me.

EDIT: Yep. official 4.38, 10'8" broad, 33 bench reps, 42" vertical.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Vernon Davis ran a 4.38 at the combine, didn't he? Davis is pretty much the standard for freak tight ends for me.
Yeah that 4.38 at the combine is what made him stand out like crazy. No TE ran at that speed. Davis is only 6'3" though and he wasn't a good blocker either coming into the NFL.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Fleener played in a pro-style offense and did everything you can ask from a TE. In-line blocking, FB, slot receiver. I've seen him make good blocks. Good technique. Tough guy coached by Jim Harbaugh. Late 1st round pick.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
Yeah that 4.38 at the combine is what made him stand out like crazy. No TE ran at that speed. Davis is only 6'3" though and he wasn't a good blocker either coming into the NFL.
Eh, I tend to think 6'3" is tall enough. 6'6" is sweet, but 6'3" does the trick. Certainly taller than most of the guys who'd be trying to cover you, and that crazy vert certainly doesn't hurt. I don't remember watching him block in college, I remember him jumping over people.

But you could never say he wasn't physical. I remember him becoming one of my favorite prospects after watching this kind of thing on youtube:



You don't see Fleener doing stuff like that.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I guess he could sneak into the rd with SF. not alot of TE need in rd 1 (NYG signed Bennett)
As someone said not sure the Giants are out of the question, same for the steelers, and you know the two Patriots picks can be had for future considerations.

Thing with Fleener's draft stock is he probably is going to either go to a real good team at the end of round 1 or a real ###### team at the top of round 2.
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