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Old 04-12-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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On a side note, the 3 DE's I'm more impressed with on film than others are Vinny Curry, Malik Jackson and Andre Branch.

Curry really reminds me of Osi Umenyiora

I might even prefer Curry at #20 over Ingram, Coples, and Upshaw. although, I would prefer to take Worthy, Cox, or Still and try to grab a DE in round 2
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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One thing I always come back to for a high DE pick is ability to pass rush, especially in our division in todays NFL. Coples doesn't blow me away there. He doesn't turn the arc well, doesn't show much agility and change of direction. I never paid much attention to him because I thought he'd be long gone, but now I'm seeing some reasons why he may slip.

Honestly at this point I thought more of Morgan's outside pass rush coming out of college. But honestly I thought JPP would bust, so ya never know. Also who knows what value the Titans put on run stopping ability and inside pass rush ability. Coples would shine there.

Branch shows the classic pass rush ability to burst off the ball, bend his hips and turn the arc. I can't say I've seen anyone do it better than him. Curry doesn't seem to do that as well, but could make up for it with power and tenacity. He may be a bit like KVB in that regard.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Well said Bobo, Curry is very unique specimen because he can run the arc some (watch the game against Ohio State, Marshall was down by 30 and he was still making plays) but he can also bull rush.

I think Coples can play outside, but he's not a Julius Peppers, Mario Williams or JPP running the arc. He's a Kevin Carter type, which there isn't anything wrong with.

Branch runs the best arc of anyone in the class in my opinion. I see him a lot better against teams that play pro style compared to the spread, he was pretty poor at the spread but it's not run in the NFL.

Branch reminds me too much of Jevon Kearse to ignore.

Mercilus kind of reminds me of Ray Edwards, nothing flashy but a solid player. I don't think I want that as a first rounder though.

Not a big fan of perry at all, seems he doesnt do anything, doesnt do anything, then BAM coverage sack.

From a pure pass rush standpoint Bruce Irvin is intriguing, but I really want a more complete player unless we could get a Bruce Irvin in round 3 and follow up with Malik Jackson in round 4.

I don't know what to do with Ingram, he's got all the tools and I want to like him. But he doesn't run the arch, doesn't have a lot of moves and dropped in coverage a lot. In a pure 4-3 defense I think I'd take Irvin over Ingram.

MY DT views
Jared Crick if healthy is one of the best in the class, but I see him at a DT and not DE in our system. He gets insane push even with being constantly double teamed.

Brockers is really raw, and I think I'd prefer a guy like Cox, Worthy and even Still to him.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Coples reminds me a lot of Kevin Carter, he isn't explosive off the snap but he is a very powerful man that can play DT as well.

If Coples is there, I'd be disappointed if we passed on him unless someone with better value is there.

Wimbley, Klug, Coples, Morgan would be a pretty good 3rd down rush if you ask me.

Coples was horrible when he played against the spread, but when he played against more pro offensive teams where he could line up and go he played well in my opinion. He also got chipped and doubled alot from what I saw
Yeah, it would. I hope he falls he is probably the only top DE that can play inside imo. I kind of want Janoris Jenkins also it looks like he will fall for being a pot head.

Edit: I just read that Adam Schefter expect Nick Perry to fall to the 2nd round. What DE is getting drafted 1st if Perry and Coples are sliding?
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, it would. I hope he falls he is probably the only top DE that can play inside imo. I kind of want Janoris Jenkins also it looks like he will fall for being a pot head.
yeah its pretty slim, I could see Jack Crawford & Chandler Jones doing it on passing downs though.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Dave Ball will be returning to the Titans.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Dave Ball will be returning to the Titans.
Ecstatic about this! Ball has been my favorite role player the last few seasons, and we absolutely need him. Morgan, Wimbley, Ball, and 1st/2nd RD rookie will place our line at the NFL median (with the potential to be great with possibly three 1st RD talents), which is a big boost from being 2nd to last in sacks last year.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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I agree, it's good to keep him. I suspect he will likely play alot on early downs with Wimbley playing more on passing downs.

With retaining Ball we've also got Egboh so DE isn't a huge glaring need, but it would still be nice to add the overall talent of the position.

I really like how we are entering the draft. I would be fine if we waited and grabbed a Malik Jackson in Round 3 or 4 to address DE honestly.

Im anxious to see what the Titans are planning, because we have no major glaring needs as of right now. I am still very concerned with our DB depth though
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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I really like the Ball signing, but I still want another DE. Ball has had injury issues and is on the wrong side of 30. A 1 year contract 2 years (or is it 3?)in a row tells you the Titans don't really think of him as long term.

I could see going for a guy like Irvin, Fugger or Burris late, or maybe another of those types (think Jacob Ford). Irvin is a freak, and IF the Titans think that pass rush ability is worth a 2nd, then I'd be happy to hear his name called. Wimbly was about the same size out of college, but I don't know how they compare vs the run (haven't seen much tape of Irvin vs the run).

I think the Titans learned something last year. They changed the scheme some and talked about stopping the run like it was the most important thing to do (that really struck me as odd in todays NFL and in our division). The DC kinda down talked smaller guys and they let Babin get away and moved JJ to DE (mistakes if you ask me). In the end we sucked rushing the passer.

With the Wimbly signing, it looks like they won't dismiss a smaller guy just because he's smaller. Morgan, Ball, Douzable, Sheppard, Eqboh, all guys who can handle the run well. Morgan is the only one I'd bet on giving consistent pressure, and someone can still play Devil's Advocate there and say he only had 2.5 sacks last year. It'd be smart to go after another pass rusher, maybe even a guy not so great vs the run. Ok, ramble over lol.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:29 AM    (permalink
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Yep...our DL is shaping-up nicely (albeit slowly). Even though we missed out on both Mario Williams and John Abraham, I like what our front-office has been doing. The coaches are really high on Wimbley; and I think he'll excel here in TN, where his primary job will be pass-rushing (as a DE) rather than pass-rushing and pass-coverage (as an OLB, like in Oakland). I also think the Douzable signing is a smart move because he's a young guy with good size/versatility, who is apparently very stout against the run. Honestly, because of his run-stuffing ability and his previous positional-experience with both the Rams and the Jags, I expect Douzable to play mostly DT for us.

Plus, Morgan looked better toward the end of last season, Casey/Klug/Clayton are all guys with lots of potential who should continue to develop, and Ball provides good depth. All that said, I still expect us to use draft-picks at both DE and DT in this upcoming draft. Because of the loss of Finnegan this offseason, I think our front-office will look to improve the front-seven to take some pressure off of those guys in the secondary. I could see our lineup looking something like...

DE:
1. Derrick Morgan
2. Kamerion Wimbley
3. ROOKIE (Couples/Whitney/Perry/Curry/etc.)
4. Dave Ball
5. Pannel Egboh

DT:
1. Jurrell Casey
2. ROOKIE (Brockers/Worthy/Still/Thompson/etc.)
3. Karl Klug
4. Leger Douzable
5. Zach Clayton

Add a mid-round interior OL, a mid-round CB, some depth at WR/LB/S, and our future is looking pretty bright, I think.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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I really like the Ball signing, but I still want another DE. Ball has had injury issues and is on the wrong side of 30. A 1 year contract 2 years (or is it 3?)in a row tells you the Titans don't really think of him as long term.

I could see going for a guy like Irvin, Fugger or Burris late, or maybe another of those types (think Jacob Ford). Irvin is a freak, and IF the Titans think that pass rush ability is worth a 2nd, then I'd be happy to hear his name called. Wimbly was about the same size out of college, but I don't know how they compare vs the run (haven't seen much tape of Irvin vs the run).
It's hard to analyze Bruce Irvin against the run because the Mountaineers ran a 3-3-5 defense, so he was playing as a DE in a 3 man line weighing 245. From what I've seen, I think he can translate to the NFL because he has effort and in my opinion you can learn to play the run pretty well, but pass rushing is harder to teach
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I also think the Douzable signing is a smart move because he's a young guy with good size/versatility, who is apparently very stout against the run. Honestly, because of his run-stuffing ability and his previous positional-experience with both the Rams and the Jags, I expect Douzable to play mostly DT for us.
I also read he has played DT at 295-305. Makes me curious how they will use him and at what weight. But let's say they want him mostly at LDE (maybe play inside more on pass downs some like Ball), and Shaun Smith and Marks get cut, we don't have much beef in the middle. Going with our new theme of run stuffing, do they go after another DT who's strength is run stuffing? Brockers? Poe? Brandon Thompson? Or a guy later? I guess it's possible they could go for two DT's. They have drafted more than one guy for positions in the past, of course with different guys running the show. We could have something that looked like this...

DE:
1. Derrick Morgan
2. Kamerion Wimbley
3. ROOKIE (Couples/Whitney/Perry/Curry/Irvin/etc.)
4. Dave Ball
5. Leger Douzable

DT:
1. Jurrell Casey
2. ROOKIE (Brockers/Poe/Worthy/Still/Reyes/Thompson/etc.)
3. Karl Klug
4. ROOKIE (Wolfe/Howard/Fangupo/Hicks/Kuhn/Powell/Robertson)
5. Zach Clayton (big maybe, and if we even keep 10)

Ah what the hell...alternate mock time!

1. Jerel Worthy - DT
Reek havoc in the backfield

2. Bruce Irvin - DE
Do what the guy above you does

3. James Brown - OG
Prevent guys from reeking havoc in our backfield

4. Leonard Johnson - CB
Me and Mighty already determined this dude is legit ;)

5. Hebron Fangupo - DT
Big boy stuff run

6. Jerry Franklin - LB
Very productive in the SEC and may have enough athleticism to play outside

7. Matt Daniels - S
Like his cousin Jack, he's just a fun guy to have around
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to analyze Bruce Irvin against the run because the Mountaineers ran a 3-3-5 defense, so he was playing as a DE in a 3 man line weighing 245. From what I've seen, I think he can translate to the NFL because he has effort and in my opinion you can learn to play the run pretty well, but pass rushing is harder to teach
He does look lean too, may be able to add some weight if need be and many guys do after getting in NFL weight rooms. Of course strength isn't the only key to stopping the run, he can make athletic plays to stop the run. He did that some from what I saw and also had some good bull rushes.

But even in the end if he does lack a bit in the run game but gets a lot of sacks and QBH's, then his value in the 2nd could be legit.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget the Titans signed DT Lamar Divens also. He'll likely add depth at the NT in camp and if he plays well I expect him to take Sen'Derrick Marks spot.

I can't foresee Smith getting cut anymore since he's our only real big guy other than Divens.

In the end, our defensive line is already looking better than last year. Currently we've got at DE: Wimbley, Morgan, Douzable (I expect DE), Dave Ball, Pannel Egboh

At DT: Smith, Casey, Klug, Divens, Marks, Clayton.

With that said, I expect the Titans to go BDPA (best defensive player available) in round 1.

I would love to take one of the premier DT's in round 1, and had us taking Worthy in my latest mock. However, in history the Titans haven't valued DT in the first round, and I like the prospect that will be there in round 2 and round 3.

I would be fine if the Titans took Andre Branch or Vinny Curry in the first round, but I do think it's about 10-15 picks too early for either of them.

I like Gilmore and Kirkpatrick at either CB or FS, I think Kirkpatrick is a top 10 talent if he didn't have the little character concerns he has.

Here's another scenario:
1. CB/FS Stephon Gilmore SC / Dre Kirkpatrick Alabama
2. DT Brandon Thompson Clemson
3. LB Sean Spence Miami
4. DE Malik Jackson Tennessee
5. CB Coryell Judie Texas A&M
6. C David Molk Michigan
7. S Sean Richardson Vandy

OR
1. DE Andre Branch Clemson
2. CB/FS Trumaine Johnson Arkansas State
3. NT Alameda Ta'amu Washington
4. OG Senio Kelemete Washington
5. LB Tank Carder TCU
6. C David Molk Michigan
7. CB Chris Greenwood Albian

OR

1. DT Jerel Worthy Michigan St
2. CB/FS Trumaine Johnson Arkansas State
3. LB Sean Spence Miami
4. DE Malik Jackson Tennessee
5. CB Coryell Judie Texas A&M
6. C David Molk Michigan
7. DE Adrian Hamilton Prairie View A&M

As you can see, I like a lot of the same players and positions in my scenarios. In this case, Scenario 1 and 3 are my favorite because we are still getting a very good DT, very good CB/S and Sean Spence is one of the most underrated LBs in the class. Watching Malik Jackson I just see a guy who's going to be a beast at DE.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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He does look lean too, may be able to add some weight if need be and many guys do after getting in NFL weight rooms. Of course strength isn't the only key to stopping the run, he can make athletic plays to stop the run. He did that some from what I saw and also had some good bull rushes.

But even in the end if he does lack a bit in the run game but gets a lot of sacks and QBH's, then his value in the 2nd could be legit.
I'm not too worried about it, Robert Mathis learned to play the run pretty well at only 250
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Check out Scar988's 7 round mock draft in the mock draft section. I really liked it
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
Don't forget the Titans signed DT Lamar Divens also. He'll likely add depth at the NT in camp and if he plays well I expect him to take Sen'Derrick Marks spot.

I can't foresee Smith getting cut anymore since he's our only real big guy other than Divens.

In the end, our defensive line is already looking better than last year. Currently we've got at DE: Wimbley, Morgan, Douzable (I expect DE), Dave Ball, Pannel Egboh

At DT: Smith, Casey, Klug, Divens, Marks, Clayton.

With that said, I expect the Titans to go BDPA (best defensive player available) in round 1.

I would love to take one of the premier DT's in round 1, and had us taking Worthy in my latest mock. However, in history the Titans haven't valued DT in the first round, and I like the prospect that will be there in round 2 and round 3.

I would be fine if the Titans took Andre Branch or Vinny Curry in the first round, but I do think it's about 10-15 picks too early for either of them.

I like Gilmore and Kirkpatrick at either CB or FS, I think Kirkpatrick is a top 10 talent if he didn't have the little character concerns he has.

Here's another scenario:
1. CB/FS Stephon Gilmore SC / Dre Kirkpatrick Alabama
2. DT Brandon Thompson Clemson
3. LB Sean Spence Miami
4. DE Malik Jackson Tennessee
5. CB Coryell Judie Texas A&M
6. C David Molk Michigan
7. S Sean Richardson Vandy

OR
1. DE Andre Branch Clemson
2. CB/FS Trumaine Johnson Arkansas State
3. NT Alameda Ta'amu Washington
4. OG Senio Kelemete Washington
5. LB Tank Carder TCU
6. C David Molk Michigan
7. CB Chris Greenwood Albian

OR

1. DT Jerel Worthy Michigan St
2. CB/FS Trumaine Johnson Arkansas State
3. LB Sean Spence Miami
4. DE Malik Jackson Tennessee
5. CB Coryell Judie Texas A&M
6. C David Molk Michigan
7. DE Adrian Hamilton Prairie View A&M

As you can see, I like a lot of the same players and positions in my scenarios. In this case, Scenario 1 and 3 are my favorite because we are still getting a very good DT, very good CB/S and Sean Spence is one of the most underrated LBs in the class. Watching Malik Jackson I just see a guy who's going to be a beast at DE.
Guys like Divens get signed every off season and don't make the team. I used to buy into a lot of the little guys in hopes they'd be a hidden gem, but they usually aren't.

Smith was benched last year and they said they actually wanted him to lose weight and move better. It's odd how that kinda goes against the big guy talk that the new DC was saying early on...but then the replace Smith with a guy who gets pushed around a lot, Marks. So I guess I could see them going after another run stuffing type like Casey (not that big, but gets it done) and maybe also a play making type like Worthy, Still, Reyes, etc. But I too could see them leaning toward DE first and going DT later (where we still have options).

I like Malik Jackson a lot too, but I don't expect him to be great, just one of those well rounded, versatile d-lineman. Maybe a bit like Ball, which would be a solid addition to the line. He would probably have more inside presence than Ball. If we got Jackson, I'd like to pair him with a guy like Irvin, Ronnell Lewis, or maybe Miles Burris to add another pass rusher to our mix.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone know what draft pick we gave up for Quinn Johnson last year? I thought I heard 7th, but now can't find a definitive answer.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Guys like Divens get signed every off season and don't make the team. I used to buy into a lot of the little guys in hopes they'd be a hidden gem, but they usually aren't.

Smith was benched last year and they said they actually wanted him to lose weight and move better. It's odd how that kinda goes against the big guy talk that the new DC was saying early on...but then the replace Smith with a guy who gets pushed around a lot, Marks. So I guess I could see them going after another run stuffing type like Casey (not that big, but gets it done) and maybe also a play making type like Worthy, Still, Reyes, etc. But I too could see them leaning toward DE first and going DT later (where we still have options).
I agree about Divens, but I think if he shows something he could make the roster. I still hold the thought that Gray wants a Sam Adams / Pat Williams guy at DT, and that's why I think Smith stays and Divens had a shot. Thats also why I think Worthy and Ta'amu will be high on the Titans list.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone know what draft pick we gave up for Quinn Johnson last year? I thought I heard 7th, but now can't find a definitive answer.
I asked that question on a Titans board and was told it was either a 6th or 7th (can't remember) but it was conditional and the conditions were not met so they don't get anything
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Jared Crick is seriously underrated right now though and I expect him to be agreat NFL player, hopefully the Titans can grab him if we dont in the first
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Well I hope we didn't lose anything for Johnson, even though it looks like he may be our FB this year.

I just saw some clips of Alemeda Ta'amu, and that's a good call mighty. Of course you think he could do well in the run game, but I was surprised how well he pushed the pocket and moved. So why not another mock borrowing from your ideas? lol

1. Chandler Jones - DE/DT

2. Trumaine Johnson - NB/CB/FS

3. Alemeda Ta'Amu - NT/DT

4. Senio Kelemete - OG

5. Marvin McNutt - WR

6. Miles Burris - OLB/DE

7. Matt Daniels - SS
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Jared Crick is seriously underrated right now though and I expect him to be agreat NFL player, hopefully the Titans can grab him if we dont in the first
Always been impressed by him, but honestly don't remember much of it from the DE spot (but it's been awhile since I saw him on TV or any highlight vids). I'm just wondering how he fits for us. I almost think he may be like Klug.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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For anyone interested, Titansonline has a 45 minute interview with Mike Mayock. Awesome stuff for us draft geeks. And this guy KNOWS our team, which is appreciated with all the clueless talking heads out there.
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