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Old 04-13-2012, 07:17 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
Not into the top 10 at any rate. I could see them trading up to get Weeden late 1st round/early 2nd.

J
Cassel/Orton/Weeden training camp battle...I'm sorry vidae but that would be too awesome not to see happen.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Cassel/Orton/Weeden training camp battle...I'm sorry vidae but that would be too awesome not to see happen.
Orton is in Dallas.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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KC might be the only real contender with Miami for Tannehill, Seattle looks set on Flynn and Philly can't be targeting a QB this high after Vick got a $100M contract. KC will have to trade with the Rams or Jaguars to get Tannehill which shouldn't cost too much unless teams in the top 10 are demanding future picks along with picks this year.
I dont see this. Buffalo is possible, also Dallas and other contenders with veteran QBs.

J
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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Before everyone talks Tannehill and top 10...

One of the things I've done this year for QB's is a passing chart. So I split the field into a grid:- left, middle and right - and then 0-10 yards downfield; 10-20 yards and throws over 20+ yards. This takes away yac which can pad stats and I can also take away swing passes/short slants etc that most QB's can make. Charting 7 of Tannehill's games (Northwestern, Kansas State, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Iowa State and Oklahoma State) - here's the picture (formatting isn't the best, but you'll get the picture):

..................................LEFT............ ...........MIDDLE....................RIGHT
20+ yards..........5-26-1 TD-2 INT..........2-5-1TD-0 INT...........3-12-0 TD-1 INT

10-20 yards.......18-30-0 TD-4 INT.......7-15-1 TD-0 INT........13-31-1 TD-3 INT

That's a total of - 48 comp, 119 att, 4 TD with 10 INT. It also shows he has very little experience throwing over the middle. But with those stats you want to spend a top 10 pick on him, just know you could be looking for work real soon no matter the potential with the arm and athletic ability.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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Before everyone talks Tannehill and top 10...

One of the things I've done this year for QB's is a passing chart. So I split the field into a grid:- left, middle and right - and then 0-10 yards downfield; 10-20 yards and throws over 20+ yards. This takes away yac which can pad stats and I can also take away swing passes/short slants etc that most QB's can make. Charting 7 of Tannehill's games (Northwestern, Kansas State, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Iowa State and Oklahoma State) - here's the picture (formatting isn't the best, but you'll get the picture):

..................................LEFT............ ...........MIDDLE....................RIGHT
20+ yards..........5-26-1 TD-2 INT..........2-5-1TD-0 INT...........3-12-0 TD-1 INT

10-20 yards.......18-30-0 TD-4 INT.......7-15-1 TD-0 INT........13-31-1 TD-3 INT

That's a total of - 48 comp, 119 att, 4 TD with 10 INT. It also shows he has very little experience throwing over the middle. But with those stats you want to spend a top 10 pick on him, just know you could be looking for work real soon no matter the potential with the arm and athletic ability.
Very interesting. How do those numbers compare to other QBs?
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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Very interesting. How do those numbers compare to other QBs?
Kirk Cousins - 8 games charted (Central Michigan, FAU, Georgia, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio State):

..................................LEFT............ ...........MIDDLE....................RIGHT
20+ yards..........3-10-1 TD-1 INT..........4-8-1 TD-0 INT...........3-11-1 TD-0 INT

10-20 yards.......8-19-0 TD-0 INT.......7-13-0 TD-1 INT........6-17-2 TD-0 INT

TOTAL: 31 comp, 78 att, 5 TD, 2 INT
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Brandon Weeden - 7 games charted (Stanford, Texas, Baylor, Oklahoma, Iowa State, Texas A&M and Arizona):

..................................LEFT............ ...........MIDDLE....................RIGHT
20+ yards..........1-3-0 TD-0 INT..........7-13-0 TD-0 INT...........4-16-1 TD-0 INT

10-20 yards.......11-20-2 TD-0 INT.......13-27-1 TD-3 INT........9-14-0 TD-1 INT

TOTAL: 45 comp, 93 att, 4 TD, 4 INT

Last edited by duesouth : 04-14-2012 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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Brock Osweiler - only 4 games charted (no FSN in the UK) - Boise State, Cal, Oregon and USC:

..................................LEFT............ ...........MIDDLE....................RIGHT
20+ yards..........2-7-1 TD-1 INT..........3-6-0 TD-0 INT...........4-10-2 TD-1 INT

10-20 yards.......3-10-0 TD-1 INT.......13-23-1 TD-0 INT........13-16-1 TD-0 INT

TOTAL: 38 comp, 72 att, 5 TD, 3 INT
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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Andrew Luck 5 games (Oklahoma State, Cal, Oregon, USC and Washington)

..................................LEFT............ ...........MIDDLE....................RIGHT
20+ yards..........2-6-0 TD-0 INT..........4-8-1 TD-0 INT...........3-7-0 TD-0 INT

10-20 yards.......8-14-2 TD-2 INT.......5-6-1 TD-0 INT........7-17-0 TD-1 INT

TOTAL: 29 comp, 58 att, 4 TD, 3 INT
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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So in 7 games, Tannehill threw 10 INT's on passes over 10 yards in 119 attempts. 4 QB's combined (as above) in 24 games threw a total of 12 INT's in 301 attempts.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duesouth View Post
Before everyone talks Tannehill and top 10...

One of the things I've done this year for QB's is a passing chart. So I split the field into a grid:- left, middle and right - and then 0-10 yards downfield; 10-20 yards and throws over 20+ yards. This takes away yac which can pad stats and I can also take away swing passes/short slants etc that most QB's can make. Charting 7 of Tannehill's games (Northwestern, Kansas State, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Iowa State and Oklahoma State) - here's the picture (formatting isn't the best, but you'll get the picture):

..................................LEFT............ ...........MIDDLE....................RIGHT
20+ yards..........5-26-1 TD-2 INT..........2-5-1TD-0 INT...........3-12-0 TD-1 INT

10-20 yards.......18-30-0 TD-4 INT.......7-15-1 TD-0 INT........13-31-1 TD-3 INT

That's a total of - 48 comp, 119 att, 4 TD with 10 INT. It also shows he has very little experience throwing over the middle. But with those stats you want to spend a top 10 pick on him, just know you could be looking for work real soon no matter the potential with the arm and athletic ability.
This is interesting. It shows that RT has a lot of very difficult throws, which account for the bulk of his interceptions: 99 throws to the deep sidelines, with 9 INT. Luck has comparatively few: 34 with 3 INT. That is almost exactly the same rate. This is good evidence that Tannehill belongs in the same conversation. The stars of the show are Cousins and Weeden: 56 and 53 attempts, 1 INT.

It would be helpful to also note where the QB was standing: left, center, right. It is one thing to throw up the sideline, but a very different thing to throw across the field to a receiver in the same position.

Due you have Barkley by any chance? I am curious, since one topic of conversation is what impact Barkley would have on this draft.

J

Last edited by onejayhawk : 04-14-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Orton is in Dallas.
And now I'm sad.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Those numbers aren't very inditing to me, consistency and poor receivers are the biggest issues RT had last year and those numbers just highlight that. What's nice is seeing him having taking so many tough throws as when he's on he's shown he can drop those right in to his receivers and that's what a QB needs to do to be not just a starter, but a stand out starter. Kid's so new to the position that all you can realistically expect is the flashes of his talent and RT showed them, steady progress and he's got a good head on his shoulders. Kid's a good gamble, not some long shot, and that's worth a very high first round pick in today's NFL.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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It's so dangerous starting a qb in the NFL after such limited experience in college. I learned that lesson with Sanchez. It usually doesn't work out.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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It's so dangerous starting a qb in the NFL after such limited experience in college. I learned that lesson with Sanchez. It usually doesn't work out.
I think Sanchez's problems have been that he never had to deal with any adversity in college and didn't have the greatest head on his shoulders. Tannehill does very well in those two areas and reminds me a lot of Locker and Cutler coming out, his arm isn't quite as amazing as those two guys', but it's still excellent.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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I think Sanchez's problems have been that he never had to deal with any adversity in college and didn't have the greatest head on his shoulders. Tannehill does very well in those two areas and reminds me a lot of Locker and Cutler coming out, his arm isn't quite as amazing as those two guys', but it's still excellent.
Locker and Cutler still had boatloads more playing experience than RT though. It's hard to commit to him bc of that. Guys who aren't 3 year starters have a long storied history of failure in the NFL.

Cam Newton is the only guy that I can think of off the top of my head that was the exception to that rule, and Cam definitely had more talent than RT.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Locker and Cutler still had boatloads more playing experience than RT though. It's hard to commit to him bc of that. Guys who aren't 3 year starters have a long storied history of failure in the NFL.

Cam Newton is the only guy that I can think of off the top of my head that was the exception to that rule, and Cam definitely had more talent than RT.
I don't disagree, and that's a big part of why I liked Locker and Cutler a lot more than I did Tannehill, who I just like and don't love the way I did those two. But I think he benefits a lot from having to play through all of the **** he's had to play through and the risk you take picking him isn't as great as the risk Denver took when they grabbed Cutler while there aren't as many "alternatives" as there were last year when Tennessee grabbed Locker.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 04-14-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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I think teams should consider Weedon more. Yes, he's 28, but in today's NFL, rookie qbs can step up and provide instant impact. The rule changes allow for qbs to develop much quicker.

And since you can't touch the qb, it's not outrageous to think he can play until he's 37 maybe 38. If he has first round talent and you can get 10 years out of him, why not go for it?

I'm starting to think his age is over blown. This isn't Chris Weinke. Weeden is legit.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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I think teams should consider Weedon more. Yes, he's 28, but in today's NFL, rookie qbs can step up and provide instant impact. The rule changes allow for qbs to develop much quicker.

And since you can't touch the qb, it's not outrageous to think he can play until he's 37 maybe 38. If he has first round talent and you can get 10 years out of him, why not go for it?

I'm starting to think his age is over blown. This isn't Chris Weinke. Weeden is legit.
I just don't see anything in Weeden that screams that he'll be any better than Henne or Matt Moore, even without the age thing. That high end talent just isn't there and if I'm using a premium pick on a QB in this NFL, I'm taking the guy I think has elite talent to work with. He didn't make very many elite throws, he doesn't have great zip or a lightening deliver, he's got middle of the pack athleticism and his arm has a lot of wear n tear on it from the pitching. I think Weeden's a guy who's career will end because of his shoulder falling apart a la Pennington, not because of the beating he takes under center.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:54 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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Not sure if this has been covered by has anyone seen that Brian Billick compares Tannehill to JaMarcus Russell? This has to be one of the stupidest comparisons I have ever seen. His only argument is that they both "looked good in shorts". He does not consider the type of person Tannehill is as compared to the type of person Russell is.

It blows my mind how some of the coaches got jobs as coaches and commentators for that matter, especially Brian Billick who is a joke at evaluating QB talent - from letting Dilfer go for Grbac to drafting Kyle Boller because he could throw through the upright from one knee from mid field.
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Yea, they aren't really that similar as prospects. Jamarcus was known as a guy that might be lazy(I don't think anyone could realize how lazy). He was still a pretty likeable guy though, so a lot of people were willing to believe he wanted to put in hard work.

Jamarcus did seem to put in a good amount of work early on, he had a pretty good end to his second year. He just isn't the type to keep putting in work through adversity. I bet had he been on a strong team with a good record, he would have kept working, but he is the type that says 'everyone else is slacking, so what if I do..." and couldn't be the leader he needed to be. I mean, he had a terrible 3rd season after a decent second one... and then he just quit altogether, never to be seen again.

I think his point was that they were late risers with high physical upside, and people feel they are pretty intelligent and good personalities.

Tannehill is apparently a freakish worker though, from what I hear.
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fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Tannehill is apparently a freakish worker though, from what I hear.
There is a lot of that this year: Luck, RG III, Tannehill, Weeden, Wilson. Oddly, those are the top 5 on my QB board.

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