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Old 04-22-2012, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
I think the argument that continues to come around is that in your division with Rodgers/Cutler/Stafford (6 games) and their offense and weapons.. you have to do something to neutralize that. The Vikes are really in an interesting and tough spot to be honest with you - and no one is saying that Claiborne is going to immediately come in and stop the likes of Jennings, an added Brandon Marshall or Megatron but if that potential is there for him as a player... I think it's very hard to pass that up especially in today's pass happy NFL.
Personally I would be more concerned with developing my quarterback than stopping other teams' for a year. We aren't gonna make the playoffs in all likelihood anyway. Protect the quarterback and develop him. Focus on stopping it after. Stopping the other teams' QB does no good if we don't have a quarterback to put up points.


Just my opinion. Kalil just makes too much sense to pass up.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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If that happens, I tend to think a team will start pondering moving up. I don't think Buffalo or say, Arizona, realistically think that Kalil is going to fall pre-draft, but if he starts sliding during the draft, I could see both of those teams calling to work up. The problem is, most of the team in the top 6 or so want an elite talent, and let's face it, this draft is short on elite talent (and I really don't consider all of the top 6 as elite talent), so whether or not the right mix can happen for a trade to happen is a question.
If he falls to #5 which would be likely if the Vikings took Claiborne, i think that would make a ton of sense. Tampa would want to trade down and both Buffalo and Arizona could definitely use an elite offensive tackle prospect. Buffalo would probably make more sense, because they wouldn't have to trade down as far, and they just lost Bell in free agency. Arizona doesnt have a second round pick either so im not sure they would be willing to give a 3rd or whatever it would take to move up.

It would be the best case scenario for the Bucs as well. They could probably then get Luke Kuechly who would be a great player for them and would fill a big need.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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I don't know how many Vikings games people have watched, but Ponder got destroyed all season and knocked out of a several games. He has no shot at becoming a successful QB if we can't keep him upright. People seem to be devaluing OL lately which is confusing. And like Prock said, the value of Kalil is greater to the Vikings because drafting him allows Minnesota to upgrade two positions by kicking Charlie Johnson inside.

Take the tackle and protect the guy you decided to rebuild your team around or start updating your resume.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Claiborne is a great player who fits a huge need, but it just doesn't make sense given the other option at pick three. It's too easy, it makes too much sense. Perhaps too much sense to happen.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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my god, just as long as it isn't blackmon at 3....
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FuzzyGopher View Post
I don't know how many Vikings games people have watched, but Ponder got destroyed all season and knocked out of a several games. He has no shot at becoming a successful QB if we can't keep him upright. People seem to be devaluing OL lately which is confusing. And like Prock said, the value of Kalil is greater to the Vikings because drafting him allows Minnesota to upgrade two positions by kicking Charlie Johnson inside.

Take the tackle and protect the guy you decided to rebuild your team around or start updating your resume.
This is pretty much how I see it.

And saying the Vikings should prioritize CB to stop Jennings/Marshall/Megatron is a silly argument because we also need a LT to block Peppers/Mathews/Vanden Bosch 6 games a week.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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YES I hope this is true, CB is a higher need than OT for them I feel, and they could EASILY get a solid OT in the top of the 2nd round!
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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What would be better for the Vikings?

Morris Claiborne and Jonathan Martin or Matt Kalil and Janoris Jenkins.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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What would be better for the Vikings?

Morris Claiborne and Jonathan Martin or Matt Kalil and Janoris Jenkins.
I really doubt Martin falls out of the 1st, much less Janoris Jenkins falls out of the 1st also.

Either way they have options, but totally can argue corners have less elite talent past the bottom of the 1st than offensive tackles do. Behind Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, Gilmore, Jenkins, Dennard it takes a little drop....




1st round Morris Claiborne and

2nd round Kelechi Osemele 1st/2nd

Mike Adams 2nd/3rd
Nate Potter 2nd/3rd
Zebrie Sanders 2nd/3rd
Jeff Allen 2nd/3rd
Donald Stephenson 2nd/4th
Andrew Datko 2nd/4th
Bobby Massie 2nd/4th
Rokevious Watkins 3rd/4th


or


1st round Matt Kalil and

2nd round Leonard Johnson 2nd/3rd or

Jayron Hosley 2nd/3rd or
Casy Heyward 2nd/3rd or
Brandon Boykin 2nd/3rd or
Mike Harris 2nd/3rd or
Jamell Fleming 2nd/ 3rd or
Ron Brooks 3rd or
Donnie Fletcher 3rd/5 or
Charles Brown 3rd/4th or
Dwight Bentley 3rd/5 or
Terrence Frederick 4th/5th or
Cliff Harris 3rd/5th or
Chase Minnifield 4th/6th

Could argue none of the corners are worth a high 2nd round pick, but could easily trade down and get better value, or wait till round 3 or father down.
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Claiborne is seeming more and more likely for us. Time will tell!
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm in the minority, but please take Claiborne. I'm sure it's been gone over in this thread, but just look at the teams with Joe Thomas and Jake Long. Quality olinemen can be found in the later rounds. Lets just hope they aren't like Marcus Johnson or Phil Loadholt. Our pass defense is just as ******* awful as our offensive line was. If we take Kalil we'll have a great tackle on an offense that can't put up points to go with a still awful coverage unit on the defensive side.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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i was thinking...maybe the vikes just don't think kalil is THAT good
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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If I were the Vikings I'd rather have Kalil/Jenkins than Claiborne/Adams. but that's just me. Either one is a great start to the draft.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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If I were the Vikings I'd rather have Kalil/Jenkins than Claiborne/Adams. but that's just me. Either one is a great start to the draft.
I'm praying that we end up with Kalil and Jenkins but I dont think theres any chance they take Jenkins after the Cook fiasco.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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If I were the Vikings I'd rather have Kalil/Jenkins than Claiborne/Adams. but that's just me. Either one is a great start to the draft.
I agree with this as much as I think Kalil may be over-rated (just not grossly so). I guess the caveat is that you can control who you get at No. 3 but not who you get in the second round, so you better really like that first selection.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm in the minority, but please take Claiborne. I'm sure it's been gone over in this thread, but just look at the teams with Joe Thomas and Jake Long.
I've seen the argument plenty of times about the Dolphins and Browns and how they didn't get better drafting an OT early. My question is why people are using that as a reason not to draft Kalil. The reason the Phins and Browns stink is because they have no QB or weapons. Both teams spent high picks on a CB as well and didn't better. The Browns added Haden and the Phins added VDavis and Sean Smith. The offensive line is our biggest issue if we expect Ponder to succeed.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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i was thinking...maybe the vikes just don't think kalil is THAT good
I think that this is a pretty strong possibility.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Let's for a second assume Claiborne is Darrelle Revis.

Aaron Rodgers sees MC. Proceeds to shred literally every other player in the Vikings secondary with his array of awesome receivers. Maybe MC takes out Jennings. All it means is Jordy, Finley, Jones, and Cobb get the fantasy stats.

No one, including Revis, Claiborne, or Deion Sanders in his prime can consistently stop what Calvin Johnson has become (And Stafford CAN utilize his other OK weapons pretty well as a budding star).

He neutralizes Brandon Marshall. Cutler is back to square one, having to lean on Forte and throw to an underwhelming receiving corps. Keep in mind that 'square one' for Chicago usually means playoffs.

In short, adding Morris Claiborne because the division features good QBs is a weak argument.
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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I've seen the argument plenty of times about the Dolphins and Browns and how they didn't get better drafting an OT early. My question is why people are using that as a reason not to draft Kalil. The reason the Phins and Browns stink is because they have no QB or weapons. Both teams spent high picks on a CB as well and didn't better. The Browns added Haden and the Phins added VDavis and Sean Smith. The offensive line is our biggest issue if we expect Ponder to succeed.
You are assuming we have a good QB and even average WRs.
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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I like Claiborne and Blackmon, but I will be ticked if we pass on Kalil. WRs are much easier to add every year. CBs are also easier to get than LTs. The great LTs are rare and last a long time. Add in the fact that we probably have the worst LT in the NFL, and this pick should be incredibly easy...
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