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Old 04-25-2012, 03:21 PM    (permalink
Hurricanes25
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Originally Posted by Old School View Post
Agreed Ginn, although I read on "The Official Site of the New York Jets", a mock by Real Football Services that has the Jets trading up to #12 with Seattle to grab Upshaw. That would be a nightmare !!! Not that I don't trust that Upshaw could be an impact player, but if we trade up, it better be for someone like Ingram, Floyd, Richardson. Otherwise stay put.
Trading up for Upshaw would be horrible. Hell I don't even want to trade back for him and I would love to trade back.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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And with that Mock, they also noted the following:

"The guy they really want, Melvin Ingram, is already gone. But we are hearing a lot of talk about the teamís interest. If the Jets really want him, they might have to go as high as No. 7 to get him, because as we mentioned, despite the talk, thereís no guarantee that Miami is going with Tannehill and could very well look for a pass rusher with its first pick. To move that high, the Jets would have to give up a package of picks, for example, this yearís first (16), second (47), fifth (154) and sixth (187) could get it done. They could also trade next yearís first-round pick, or next yearís second and third."

The more I hear about trading up, the worse I feel about it. The Jets have so many holes and a lack of depth. This doesn't seem like a good year to do it.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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If Jets want Richardson then they WON"T wait until he has been passed thrice (3 aforementioned teams in my previous post). I can see Jets keep trying to make a deal during each OTC for Richardson. Surely, we the public wont know what is going on in the war room but I highly doubt that Jets will wait until the selection where Jets can begin to strike a deal.

Ingram could fall out of top 10 so it is a lot cheap to trade for him (I hope not). Jets can wait to see how far will Ingram fall downward.

Basically, Jets willingly give a lot for Richardson but not for Ingram.


Ah That Jones is fluidity enough to play OLB. In fact, it is a lot more than Mericlus. His problem is indeed a legit pass rushing. Ryan failed to convert Ghloston and Westerman into a reliable pass rusher in no time so I don't see how successful will Jones be under Ryan.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Hurricanes25 View Post
One guy I don't want is Chandler Jones. He's way to stiff to stand up in the 3-4 and I personally don't see him as being a great pass rusher. I just don't see what the hype is all about with him.
Agreed. That would really bum me out, and there's a bunch of rumors that they like him. Apparently they just sent a ton of guys up to 'Cuse to work him out. Long arms, not a ridiculous athlete, moves okay but not outstanding, just mediocre productivity. It's like teams are afraid to miss out on the next JPP, but Jones isn't as good.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nt-richardson/

The price tag is too much to move up for Richardson. If he falls the Jets might still trade up for him. I can sleep tonight.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Cimini says if we don't go for Richardson, we're going to be looking at Ingram, Floyd, or Brockers. Is this his final list or does he do an official one later on? I can't remember for last year. However, I would be very surprised by Brockers. I'm not quite sure if he'll transition well to the 3-4 or not, but I would think that with all the holes we have, he shouldn't even be in consideration.

I'm so nervous. I have class at the time of the draft, so I'm either going to cause a commotion for good or for bad. Preferably good.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Message to Jets: Keep pick #16. Trade up with the 2nd pick to grab Doug Martin. T-Rich is too expensive. I think we'll still be happy!
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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I'd guess there will be another one tomorrow. That seems kind of informal and he'll probably toss a 5th, maybe a 5th and 6th name to it to make sure he can keep his streak alive. That or he's extremely confident they're trading up for Ingram and they love Brockers, because I think there's a really good chance Ingram and Floyd are off the board and to be left with just Brockers if they stand pat at 16 seems risky.

And I'm a huge Doug Martin fan, but I think they could use their picks more wisely. Wouldn't be shocked if he lands in the first either.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricanes25 View Post
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nt-richardson/

The price tag is too much to move up for Richardson. If he falls the Jets might still trade up for him. I can sleep tonight.

Jets must be upset with me for exposing their plan for number 3. Abort!

Or are they trying to hush us down?

Bourbon and milk before sleeping is helpful.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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I think Jets should sit out on Doug Martin in the 2nd round and take David Wilson instead.

1st- Chandler Jones. OLB
2nd- David Wilson. RB
3rd- Omar Bolden, CB
5th- Danny Coale. WR
6th- Tim Fugger. OLB.

That group will bolster the locker room big time but as far as game result is concerned it is hard to say. umm.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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So stole this from TJB but let's have a competition! Throw out any ten names of players that you believe the Jets will draft. Any round. The person that gets the most correct wins!
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:01 AM    (permalink
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This is my list of 10 potential's.

Melvin Ingram
Michael Floyd
Adonis Thomas
Matt McCants
Zebrie Sanders
Travis Lewis
Toney Clemons
Jeff Adams
George Iloka
Vinny Curry
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:08 AM    (permalink
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The draft pick value chart is most likely not an exact science, but just something to note, it seems as though our 1st and 2nd rounders would be able to get us to about 8, and our 1st and 3rd would get us to around 12. I still don't really condone trading up, but that doesn't seem to be too stiff of a price. Not sure who they'd really be interesting in trading up for besides Richardson (all smokescreens aside), however.

Speaking of the Crimson Tide, I think for me personally what would hurt most about the Upshaw pick is that I think much more highly of Hightower. We haven't really looked into either, though.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:25 AM    (permalink
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For what it's worth (and who knows how much, because there's so much misinformation going around right now) Tony Pauline said in his mock that the Jets either want to move up for Ingram or down for Silatolu or McClellin. Thought it was interesting.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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My list of 10 potential's.


Melvin Ingram - OLB
Quinton Coples - DE
Doug Martin - RB
Nick Toon - WR
Bruce Irvin - OLB
Kelechi Osemele - T/G
James-Michael-Johnson - ILB
Philip Thomas - S
Evan Rodriguez - FB/TE
Kyle Wilber - DE/LB
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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Rather than 10 specific players, here are the positions of the ten picks in some order:

S
WR
WR
RB
CB
OT
OLB
ILB
DE
K or P
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Nothing specific in terms of an interest list yet, but Cimini said that he expects the Jets to consider Ingram, Barron, Floyd, or DeCastro as a RT at 16. If they're all gone then a move down is possible.

Two follow up thoughts on this. One, unless they move up I think there's a good chance that all of the players on the list are off the board. Most likely one to me is DeCastro, and I don't see why you take him to be a RT. He's elite inside, not sure if he's going to be as elite at tackle and I don't think you mess with him. That'd be a big risk to me.

And two, I'm thinking that there might be a deal already worked out with a team to move down. I also think that team might be Detroit. The real question would be the parameters of the deal, but the thought is that the Lions want to secure a player in the secondary and are willing to move up. Claiborne and Gilmore will likely be gone, so Kirkpatrick sounds like a logical target. He's also an excellent fit for the Bengals who need help in the secondary, love taking corners, frequently pick SEC guys with good tools, generally make it obvious which players they like and get snaked by teams moving up ahead of them, and happen to be picking 17. There's obviously a lot of other logical scenarios and I'm not sure what the compensation would be (based on the value chart a third this year and a third next year seems like the closest to fair, but who knows how much that's used), but that one seemed to make a lot of sense.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Sal said 0.0 chance to trade up for Richardson. It is likely for Jets to stay put at 16 for Ingram or Floyd with DeCastro as 3rd option.


I am not a fan of drafting OL to start right side. Please be available, Floyd.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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So stole this from TJB but let's have a competition! Throw out any ten names of players that you believe the Jets will draft. Any round. The person that gets the most correct wins!

should start the thread for that?
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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For what it's worth (and who knows how much, because there's so much misinformation going around right now) Tony Pauline said in his mock that the Jets either want to move up for Ingram or down for Silatolu or McClellin. Thought it was interesting.
If we move down to the low to mid 20's and take McClellin, I would be happy with that. I don't think he's an elite pass rusher, but I think he's better than what we have and getting him in the 20's would be a decent value. Getting some more picks would be nice too.

I've never seen Silatolu play but I'm a little hesitant with small school offensive lineman simply because of Ducasse.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Cimini just posted an article on what to watch for in the first round. I get the feeling he's pretty plugged in, so this I think should give us a relatively good feel for what's going to happen tonight. Big point is that it's likely they move up or down, because they have 8-10 guys in their upper tier on their draft board and then around a dozen players with similar grades, so if they can't get one of those 8-10 in a move up or at 16 they may as well move down and get some value.

He basically says that trading up for Richardson is cost prohibitive, which I think we already knew. There are three potential targets in a trade up: Mark Barron, Fletcher Cox, and Michael Brockers. Barron obviously would fill a huge need, it seems that there's a ton of demand for him and I'm not sure if they really want to move up that far. The rationale for Cox and Brockers is more value than need, so I'm guessing he just knows that the Jets are really, really high on both and both are expected to be gone. Cox is awesome, but should be long gone before they have an opportunity to trade up. Brockers I don't like as much, he's a big guy who moves alright but isn't an outstanding athlete. He'll be a good run defender, but in an attacking hybrid scheme I'd want more pass rush potential, like Cox has actually. I'd hope they wouldn't trade up for him.

At 16 he says that the Jets would consider Ingram, Floyd, and DeCastro. I almost think you can throw Brockers into this group as well since trading up for him seems unrealistic, but maybe they see pass rushing upside I don't. They apparently like Ingram enough to take him at 16, but not enough to move up. This could clearly be a huge smokescreen, but it does make sense to me. I don't see a ton of pass rushing upside, so he'd be great as a versatile defender at 16 but not sure I'd sacrifice picks to move up for him. If that means he's off the board so be it, although with other guys getting chatter (Barron, Jones, Gilmore, Brockers) about going higher he might slip anyway. In fact, I kind of think he will unless somebody leapfrogs the Jets to get him. Anyway, Floyd's obviously a solid fit with #2 WR a huge need and him offering size, vertical ability, and run blocking ability. Probably off the board though. Taking DeCastro to move him to RT would be a monumental mistake IMO. he's special as a guard, don't think he'd be special as a RT. If they really feel the need to take him, move Slauson to RT or see what you can get for Moore. That's probably one of the worst things they could do tonight though.

Then if all of those players are off the board (which kind of seems unlikely, you have to figure 9 players are coming off the board after Luck, RGIII, Claiborne, Richardson, Kalil, and Blackmon, there's 6 players listed here and Chandler Jones, Ryan Tannehill, Luke Kuechly, and Stephon Gilmore seem likely to come off the board before 16 as well along with a ton of other possibilities), the Jets would consider trading down. In that trade down targets would likely be Chandler Jones or Whitney Mercilus, maybe Quinton Coples or Dontari Poe. Jones could be gone before 16 so I don't think he'd be likely in a trade down, so then you're probably looking at Mercilus if he's there and maybe Poe, Coples, another pass rusher, or somebody like Cordy Glenn if he isn't depending on how far they drop. Seems like an unlikely scenario to me though, as much as I'd like to see them move down and add some extra picks.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I still will get my meal ready by 3rd overall selection. Learned my lesson when Jets moved up and got Mark Sanchez and I had to eat and watch other team drafting. It was not exactly enjoyable.

I am still think Jets can trade up to Vikings' spot because Vikings may not want to pay top 5 money so they may reduce the value.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Hurricanes25 View Post
If we move down to the low to mid 20's and take McClellin, I would be happy with that. I don't think he's an elite pass rusher, but I think he's better than what we have and getting him in the 20's would be a decent value. Getting some more picks would be nice too.

I've never seen Silatolu play but I'm a little hesitant with small school offensive lineman simply because of Ducasse.

I am not crazy about taking small school prospects any time prior to 3rd round. Not sure about him being a first round, let 16 alone. I know 49ers love him at 30th but I am sure there are plenty of power mauler for RG and RT job for the midst of the draft. I hope Jets can focus on dynamic prospects for first 2 rounds and then beefing up linemen.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Cimini's article kind of threw me off. He keeps throwing in names we haven't seen previously, so I wonder if those are smokescreens. Cox really perplexes me. I hate the idea of drafting a DT in the 1st, probably even more so than a RB, unless they're an otherworldly talent like Suh. But with Cox he seems perfectly suited for the 4-3, but I think he would be terrible in the 3-4. If that were the choice, I would expect a surprise shift in our defensive philosophy to be more 4-3 oriented, but honestly, I don't think that's happening (not that I particularly think he will be available anyway).

Brockers I don't have a huge problem with if we absolutely have no other option, and he's a smart player. I like the intangibles he brings, but I honestly don't think he'll be the pick.

The DeCastro thing is really weird though. We keep hearing that, but is there any indication he can play RT? Silatolu at least played OT. He's miles ahead of Ducasse though. At least I could tell how terrible Ducasse was. That's the one position where if they seem that dumb, there's really no hope for them. Silatolu plays with a nasty streak.

I'm really happy to hear we aren't looking to trade up for Ingram though. I'm mildly alright with the pick, but trading up for him would be ridiculous. If they were both available though, it would be interesting to see if Ingram is the top option and Floyd really is option 2.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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I definitely agree it was a confusing article, particularly with all the DT stuff. I just don't really see it making sense in the first round. Plus the DeCastro to guard thing. I did like that he cleared up Upshaw not being the pick and Poe/Coples not seeming likely, though. But at the same time he's flipped back and forth on so much stuff, I can't really tell what he actually knows.

Cox I actually think is a much better fit in the 3-4 hybrid front than Brockers is. He's a guy who had the athleticism to line up at defensive end for Mississippi State, and isn't just a straight line guy. I see a fluid athlete who happens to be big enough to hold up at the POA. Think his ideal fit is in the kind of 3-4 that Ryan and Pettine run actually where he can attack from an end spot and utilize his athleticism but still have some DT responsibilities with his size and strength as well. Great motor too. I actually think he's the most certain upgrade to the pass rush the Jets could pick in the draft, Ingram/Upshaw won't contribute there and everybody else is a huge question mark. Irrelevant though I think, because he'll be long gone.

Brockers I'm not as big on, because I think he's a 2 gap 3-4 lineman and won't fit as well in the attacking style the front utilizes. I think he'll get double teamed and hold up against the run, but there's not much else he brings to the table and I'd rather see a more athletic player. Particularly with Wilkerson, who's athletic but might be less so as he fills out and already really big, at one of the 5-tech spots. You're talking about down the road having two five techniques who are going to be probably in the 330 ballpark when they finish filling out, Wilkerson I think was 315 at the combine and Brockers I thought was 320-ish. If he was the freak athlete he was labeled as I'd be okay with it, but he's not. Steady, big, long arms, takes up double teams, not an outstanding athlete screams more two gap 3-4 to me than what the Jets run.

Agreed on the DeCastro/Silatolu thing. DeCastro at RT is probably the worst thing they could do tonight. There's a ton of other scenarios I'd rather play out, I just couldn't see being able to rationalize taking an elite guard and moving him out to be a tackle when there's not much that says he'll be great at it and he's special because of his qualities as a guard. Hopefully we don't have to deal with it.

I think Floyd will be gone, but it'll be interesting to see what they do. I'm skeptical about their interest in him because on a call with reporters they were so straightforward about liking him and why they like him. Makes me wonder if there's something about him that they don't like. We'll see though.
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