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Old 04-27-2012, 05:41 AM    (permalink
TornadoRex
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i think the Bucs were trying to work out a deal with the Vikings to get Richardson before the Browns finally caved in. TB then tried to be clever by trading down for picks to use to get back into the tail end of the draft while still getting the top CB. they should have stayed pat and took Claiborne, then packaged their own fourth rounder along with their second, rather than the 4th rounder they got from Jacksonville. just a major screw up. but at least the Bucs still got a great player in Barron, even if he wasnt the guy they wanted most.
The thing is... the Bucs didn't have a 4th round pick until the trade back. We used that 4th to move up last year for Luke Stocker.

Also probably the reason the Browns had better ammo for Richardson.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:44 AM    (permalink
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i also want to go against the grain on all the love for the Bengals draft. the Kirkpatrick pick was great, but i dont see how Zeitler and a late-third rounder was worth passing on David Decastro. not to mention that Decastro ended up going to a division rival instead. passing on him once made sense considering who they ended up taking, but the second time was just plain stupid. there isnt going to be any player they take at no.93 that makes the trade worth it.
Whoever had Zeitler rated as a late 3rd rounder is dumb. I also don't know where you getting all this love for the Bengals i have yet to see anybody give them love for the draft so far.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:45 AM    (permalink
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My thought is, I love how everyone looks at a bunch of mock drafts and then sees a guy go a round earlier than the mocks and thinks "They coulda got him in round 2!!!!!!"

Sorry guys, it doesn't work like that. Just because a bunch of amateur scouts think a guy is a 2nd rounder doesn't mean the pro scouts do.
I get what your saying to a certain extent but it isn't like Mayock or Mel had him in round one either. I understand that they aren't with professional teams but they are hardly amateurs.

I get that this guy has serious pass rush ability but that is about all that he has. If they intend to use him at DE he will get 0 push in the run game and if they put him at LB he will be a severe liability in coverage. JMO

Obvious winners: Colts, Redskins

Winners:

Dolphins: They got there guy and didn't have to trade up to do so. Might be a reach talent-wise but this guy was going in the top 15 regardless.

Bengals: Got Dre, a former top 10 pick without moving up, moved back and still got the guard they were looking for

Rams: This might be a bit premature before seeing what all the picks turn in to but I have a feeling this will be a good draft for them

Steelers: I don't think this needs explanation
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:57 AM    (permalink
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If people genuinely think that when Claiborne fell into our laps, with all the info we would have gleaned from Ron Cooper in the pre draft process, that we decided to get cute for a 4th rounder, then I don't know what to tell you.

For better or worse, we preferred Barron over Claiborne. I'm not saying he'll be better, although I think his impact on our defence will be more immediate than Claiborne's would have been. But to say we missed out on who we really wanted when we traded back two spots is asinine.

Re: the Doug Martin move, I'll just say this. He's in the mould of Rice/Forte in terms of being a back you never have to take off the field, and we secured him by moving back in a round we didn't even have a pick in when we started. Those saying it wasn't a need are totally wrong, a back who can catch and pass protect was a huge need, Blount's inability to do so last year led to catastrophic offensive predictability. Martin + Blount are intended to be Mike Sullivan's new Bradshaw + Jacobs. We'll see how it works out.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:16 AM    (permalink
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Winners:

Minnesota - all the pre draft posturing must of done something to scare Holmgren into trading up one spot. They Vikings being able to get additional picks and address their biggest need by drafting Kalil was great. Moving back up for Harrison Smith was also logical and made a ton of sense.

Steelers - DeCastro was a steal...so many teams that needed the guy pass right over him

Lions - Reiff was projected as a potential Top 10 pick and the Lions were able to have him fall into their lap

Bengals - addressed two needs with two quality players

Losers:
Seattle - reached for a second round talent
Cleveland - started off well by getting Richardson but hurt themselves overdrafting Weeden in the first.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:20 AM    (permalink
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Brockers, not a huge fan, LSU D lineman, not a fan. I do however, have a bit of trust that Fisher should be able to spot good D line talent. They seemed to have a conveyor belt over in Tennessee while he was there. That's the hope anyway.

I also have a biblical man crush on DeCastro, so I'm gutted the Rams passed on him.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by irishbucsfan View Post
If people genuinely think that when Claiborne fell into our laps, with all the info we would have gleaned from Ron Cooper in the pre draft process, that we decided to get cute for a 4th rounder, then I don't know what to tell you.

For better or worse, we preferred Barron over Claiborne. I'm not saying he'll be better, although I think his impact on our defence will be more immediate than Claiborne's would have been. But to say we missed out on who we really wanted when we traded back two spots is asinine.

Re: the Doug Martin move, I'll just say this. He's in the mould of Rice/Forte in terms of being a back you never have to take off the field, and we secured him by moving back in a round we didn't even have a pick in when we started. Those saying it wasn't a need are totally wrong, a back who can catch and pass protect was a huge need, Blount's inability to do so last year led to catastrophic offensive predictability. Martin + Blount are intended to be Mike Sullivan's new Bradshaw + Jacobs. We'll see how it works out.
They could have easily assumed STL was zeroing in on Fletcher Cox, like they have been rumored to be for weeks, and figured they might as well pick up an extra 4th while still being able to land Mo.

It's hard to imagine a 4th + Mark Barron was really what they wanted instead of Claiborne. It just looks like they tried to get cute and wound up getting burned.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:22 AM    (permalink
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Also have to give credit to Dallas - they continued to address a huge need and they have really revamped their secondary.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:27 AM    (permalink
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Bruce Irvin is the middle class Von Miller. Same h/w/s. He doesn't have Milller's pass rush skillset, but I don't know that I'd call him a major reach for Seattle. He may have been wrongly evaluated.

Barron is so-so in coverage which is why I don't understand why he was so coveted. If a safety isn't an eraser in coverage nowadays, he's a liability.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:09 AM    (permalink
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I just about fell out of my chair when Irvin went that high, but I kind of like the pick. He's a good athlete with good production.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:16 AM    (permalink
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I actually hated a good number of the picks. Irvin was not one of those picks. He'll do great in that Chris Clemons role.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:20 AM    (permalink
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I think the Browns just set themselves back 5 years. Richardson and Weeden might do well this season but there's no long term value in either of them.

Teams will regret passing on Upshaw. The look on his face at the end when he was walking out of the green room wasn't sadness, it was rage.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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I don't completely hate the Bears pick as some do.

The Bears have been saying that they like their o-line as it is...I don't agree, but I knew we weren't going in that direction. When DeCastro was there, I did get my hopes up a little, but I still knew it wasn't going to be the pick.

I had a feeling it was either going to be Chandler Jones or McClellin. I think I would have preferred Jones, but McClellin wasn't a shock.

From the sounds of things, we may use him as a 2 down SAM LB and then move him up to DE in nickel situations. If that's the case, then I feel a little better about it since using a first on a one down player would have been terrible.

And he's not as big of reach as some are saying. I saw him being mocked with fair consistency in the late first to teams like the Packers and Patriots. A 10 pick reach isn't as the full round some are making it seem like.

All that said, I'm not in love with the pick, but I think it's getting **** on too much. I like high motor guys and he should have opportunities to get sacks across from Peppers.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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This is false. We traded away our own 4th round pick last year to grab Luke Stocker.
ah my mistake then.

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Whoever had Zeitler rated as a late 3rd rounder is dumb.
you misunderstood my post. im saying all the Bengals got from the Patriots trade is a third round pick and i dont see how that was worth passing on Decastro. not to mention that the Titans or the Bears could have easily taken Decastro, and the Steelers would have then taken Zeitler instead. where would that have left the Bengals?

Zietler still being there salvaged the trade, imo.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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Would the Browns have been better off doing what they did in the first round, or taking Tannehill at 4 and then their second rated RB at 22. That'll be an interesting question to debate in coming years.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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Also, if the Browns do trade McCoy now, one team who I think should throw a pick out there for him is Green Bay.

They have no backup on the roster right now, and McCoy would be ideal as a true backup to Rodgers. Send a 5th Cleveland's way for him...I bet they'd take it.

And in McCoy, you get a Rodgers-lite basically.

But, that probably makes too much sense to actually happen.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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I think the biggest problem with the Bears' pick is that he projects best to that OLB position in a 3-4 defense. They're going to end up playing him as a 4-3 defensive end, and he's kinda smallish for a 4-3 end in the NFL. I can't see this being a valuable pick for them. They have a lot of work to do to improve their overall draft.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:46 AM    (permalink
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Also, if the Browns do trade McCoy now, one team who I think should throw a pick out there for him is Green Bay.

They have no backup on the roster right now, and McCoy would be ideal as a true backup to Rodgers. Send a 5th Cleveland's way for him...I bet they'd take it.

And in McCoy, you get a Rodgers-lite basically.

But, that probably makes too much sense to actually happen.
I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but I really want GB to trade for McCoy. They're probably drafting their backup QB somewhere in the 3-5 round range anyway, and I'd rather have McCoy than any QB that they can get in that range.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:48 AM    (permalink
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I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but I really want GB to trade for McCoy. They're probably drafting their backup QB somewhere in the 3-5 round range anyway, and I'd rather have McCoy than any QB that they can get in that range.
Unless Kirk Cousins slides to round three for you?
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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I'd rather have McCoy than an honest to god rookie backup if I were them.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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I'd rather have McCoy than an honest to god rookie backup if I were them.
Maybe, but all Cousins would have to do is come in and start for Rodgers (if he's injured) and throw about 6-0 TD/INT ratio. Then you get a 1st-2nd round pick for him 2-3 years down the line.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Asteinebach View Post
Maybe, but all Cousins would have to do is come in and start for Rodgers (if he's injured) and throw about 6-0 TD/INT ratio. Then you get a 1st-2nd round pick for him 2-3 years down the line.
Maybe, but that didn't exactly work out with Matt Flynn. Plus, QBs who never do anything are far more prevalent than ones who do end up being traded for good picks.

Better to have a guy you know could be an adequate backup than roll the dice on a rookie, especially if you can have the first guy for less. (Assuming 3rd for Cousins like you said and a 5th for McCoy like I said.)
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:54 AM    (permalink
WCH
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Unless Kirk Cousins slides to round three for you?
I'd probably take Cousins and hope to God that he didn't have to play this year. That being said, McCoy was a 3rd pick in his own right, and he's already got experience in an NFL WCO.

And I would rather have McCoy for a 5th than Cousins for a 3rd.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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ESPN still tipping off picks but doing it sneakier like Berman hinting at a player or Schefter breaking it on the ticker.

What's wrong with these asshats?
Berman made the draft all about him. ESPN overall was a disaster. Too much Gruden, not enough Kiper and I didn't even see McShay. I could here the PA guy announcing trades in the background, but couldn't hear the whole thing, just bits and pieces and the ESPN guys were repeating the samethings about players they've been saying for 3 months.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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you misunderstood my post. im saying all the Bengals got from the Patriots trade is a third round pick and i dont see how that was worth passing on Decastro. not to mention that the Titans or the Bears could have easily taken Decastro, and the Steelers would have then taken Zeitler instead. where would that have left the Bengals?

Zietler still being there salvaged the trade, imo.
Zeitler IMO is a more dominating run blocker than Decastro. It's not like he's a liability in pass pro either, he didn't give up a sack his last 3 seasons of college. He has issues in space and isn't the most mobile guy, but depending on scheme I think he could be better than DeCastro in certain situations. I'm not well versed enough in the Bengals scheme to know, but if it's run heavy with lots of traps Zeitler is the man.
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