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Old 04-27-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
My question to you two is what is the upside of Jenkins? I'm not challenging that, just curious where you see him maxing at out. I don't see him having the upside the a Randle or Hill posses. They were in the perfect situation by having an all time great in Randy Moss(he doesn't have to go out of his way to mentor anyway but just watching them every day can do wonders), their is depth behind him with Manningham & Crabtree so they wouldn't have to be forced to contribute right away.


I think he may be better as a rookie then those two, but for what type of offense SF runs, and the depth in place, give me Rueben Randle or Stephen Hill every time. That's just me though, so it's not to say they were wrong, but it looks like a safe pick to me and one that you can't confidently say that he's going to be a future pro bowler.
I don't see him as a perennial pro bowler but he'll fit in well there. Randle, whom I'm a big fan of, and Hill have more upside without a doubt to me. But as you said, it seems like a safe pick and I think that's what it is. I have no problem with it because I think Jenkins can become a nice #2/#3 receiver who finds his way onto the field. Hill is a lot more raw so I see why he wasn't the pick. I would have went with Randle over Jenkins but I'm not in the Niners war room listening to the reasoning.

As far as his upside, hm. I like the Burleson comparison. I can't think of one right now off the top of my head.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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OOO OOO pick me pick me!!! I have an excuse. Sam Bradford sucks.
That all the better you can do?
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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The Rams didn't trade down in hopes of landing Floyd. Once Blackmon and Richardson were gone, they wanted Brockers all along, and would have taken him at #6 if the trade fell through. So Kudos to them for getting an extra 2 and their guy.


+100. Brockers was a great pick for what Fisher wants to do. The Rams couldn't stop the run the entire year. Quinn / Langford / Brockers / Long will be one hell of a d-line. Brockers will command double teams and keep blockers off Lariunitus too. What the Rams do with picks 33,39 and 45 will be key though. Those could be key starters for them for years to come. Plus both #1's from the Redskins in 2013 and 2014. The Rams are set up nicely for the future.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. By the way, if you haven't seen Shane's rant on him, you gotta check this out. It's pretty much hilarious.
I saw it, hilarious.

I think Irvin can be a really, really good pick depending on what the Seahawks intend to do with him. He obviously won't come in and play every down. He's weak against the run but I think that has to do more with his size than anything. He can afford to put on 10-15 pounds but his pass rush ability was the best in the class and well worth the top 15 pick.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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How did Quinn look last year? I didn't get to see much of him.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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We've had this conversation before. It's talent vs. character. And I'm sure we're beating a dead horse here, but I have to say it. If a player doesn't have his mind right, the NFL will eat him alive. The last thing this kid needs is veteran guards smashing him in the mouth all game long just because he's a loud mouth.

Tjsunstein, what you said about him taking things to heart, that bothers me. It shows signs of emotional immaturity. Those two words are more responsible for causing "busts" in the NFL than anything else. And again, a guy can be as talented as we've ever seen. If his mind doesn't get right, he's ******. Kerry Collins was an absolute stud QB prospect. But he was a head case. The examples are literally abundant in the NFL. Talent rarely overcomes mental weakness.
Well said. Pretty much what I wanted to say but couldn't verbalize...
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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[quote=Iamcanadian;2972042]
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Their #1 guy was Richardson, then Blackmon. When those two were gone, they traded down to get an extra 2 with the intent of getting Brockers, who they were prepared to take at #6 if the trade fell through. They liked Brockers over Cox, which says a lot about how much they liked him. They were never after Floyd.

Additionally, going into this draft both Fisher and Snead said their goal was to get as much talent out of this draft as possible to start building a foundation for the future. They both come from organizations that consistently carry a lot more talent than what they inherited when they came to St. Louis, even though there are some key pieces in place here. There isn't a panic in St. Louis, and they know they have a HUGE rebuilding project. So I think the Rams had a very positive day. They took a starter with Pro Bowl potential and picked up what will likely be another starter along the way.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think they wanted to help Bradford with a top WR, they have nothing to offer him right now and he is going to be 1 unhappy QB.
DT is the best position in this year's drtaft and they could have gotten a stud in round 2.
I believe they really wanted either Blackmon or Floyd and lost out on both. Jacksonville jumped them for Blackmon and Arizona jumped them on Floyd. That's the way it looks to me. I really like Brockers but offense is St. Louis's major weakness and you have to believe they wanted help in that direction before addressing the defense.
I'm not arguing whether or not this was the better strategy. But in your initial post you said that they traded down to target Floyd and missed. But that simply isn't true. They never targeted Floyd at all.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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I love how so many people are so ignorantly ripping the Browns trade at the beginning of the draft.

Heckert specifically came out and said that there was a deal on the table to the Vikings for the #3 pick and that the Vikings GM (a friend of his) was up front and honest about it. He knew he had to beat the deal so he did, and acquired Trent Richardson.

If that is their guy then I have no problem with them moving up and grabbing him for a 4th 5th and 7th. TR is gonna touch the ball a **** load in our offense.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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I don't mind the trade at the top for the Browns, they secured their guy for (in the grand scheme of things) a very small price.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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I love how so many people are so ignorantly ripping the Browns trade at the beginning of the draft.

Heckert specifically came out and said that there was a deal on the table to the Vikings for the #3 pick and that the Vikings GM (a friend of his) was up front and honest about it. He knew he had to beat the deal so he did, and acquired Trent Richardson.

If that is their guy then I have no problem with them moving up and grabbing him for a 4th 5th and 7th. TR is gonna touch the ball a **** load in our offense.
Yeah, I would have to agree. If the Browns can put together a line for him TR will be a really good back.

And, while I don't think Weeden had good value at #22, I think he makes the Browns better than they were with Colt. I don't think he is a franchise guy, but it is hard to see it as not being an upgrade. He could easily be a 3500/25/12 QB in a couple of years with a decent line and a couple more weapons. I don't think McCoy ever puts up those numbers.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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I love how so many people are so ignorantly ripping the Browns trade at the beginning of the draft.

Heckert specifically came out and said that there was a deal on the table to the Vikings for the #3 pick and that the Vikings GM (a friend of his) was up front and honest about it. He knew he had to beat the deal so he did, and acquired Trent Richardson.

If that is their guy then I have no problem with them moving up and grabbing him for a 4th 5th and 7th. TR is gonna touch the ball a **** load in our offense.
Sorry, but I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, are you interested. The Vikings had no intention of trading past Cleveland and used Heckert like an idiot. If they trade past Cleveland, they risked losing Kalil which they had no intention of trying. They played Heckert/Holmgren and they fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Well, that is 2 excuses for a miserable draft that sound totally hollow to me. Holmgren saying the Rams turned down a better offer from the Browns for RG111 and now this trade excuse. They have been on the job for 3 years and the best we can hope for next year is another 4 win season. Fire the bothg of them. I'd fire the owner but that just isn't possible.
Sorry to be so hard on a fellow Brown's fan but I'm getting awful sick of this franchise's excuses for mediocrity.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Monomach, take off the tin foil hat. :)
Sorry. It just makes too much sense. Next up: Alameda Ta’amu.

"Oh, yeah...uh...like, we totally dig his pass rushing skills up the middle. We think they're underrated by all the other teams and stuff because they kept working him out as a 3-4 nose tackle. He should be a force in the under tackle rotation."
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, but I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, are you interested. The Vikings had no intention of trading past Cleveland and used Heckert like an idiot. If they trade past Cleveland, they risked losing Kalil which they had no intention of trying. They played Heckert/Holmgren and they fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Well, that is 2 excuses for a miserable draft that sound totally hollow to me. Holmgren saying the Rams turned down a better offer from the Browns for RG111 and now this trade excuse. They have been on the job for 3 years and the best we can hope for next year is another 4 win season. Fire the bothg of them. I'd fire the owner but that just isn't possible.
Sorry to be so hard on a fellow Brown's fan but I'm getting awful sick of this franchise's excuses for mediocrity.
From the outside looking in, it did look like a panic move. But in the end, they got their guy and Richardson is going to make them relevant in their division once again. Love the addition he brings in such a hard knocks conference. If Hardesty can get off his ass, then the Browns really have something to lean on. That team needed an identity and got it.

Weeden's age is overrated. QBs play well into their late 30s if they pan out. At least you know he can fling it, shows grit on the field and he's got prototypical size.

The Browns moves were not terrible, imo. If they bolster their OL, they're gonna make noise.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Who cares about what the Browns gave up? A 6th and a 7th round pick is just an UDFA who gets his name on TV.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I think the Browns trade gave the Vikings the ability to get Harrison Smith.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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I think it's amusingly ironic how some people can criticize Cleveland so easily and say "Minnesota didn't want Richardson, TB wasn't going to trade up, they got fooled, what idiots ahahahahahah". Yet not even 4 picks later, here is STL sitting at 6, 1 pick away from the guy they wanted, and they got hosed by the team behind them.


So it very well could have happened. If you don't agree with it that's one thing but we already saw sitting on your ass you can get sniped, they wanted Richardson bad and made sure they got him.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I really liked what the Pats did. They stopped being cute and traded up to get some very good players for a defense that needed them.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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I think Cleveland did well with the trade. They saw the player that they thought would change the face of their franchise and they had the sack to pull the ******* trigger. Not a lotta teams willing to weigh risk and reward that way. To be real, Tampa Bay definitely had their eyes on Trent Richardson as well, as evidenced by the fact that they didn't stand in and take Claiborne. The Browns did the right thing, aggressively, to make it impossible for anyone to get their guy.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Speaking of that Tampa trade, I'm surprised that so few people are making the point that

Claibore >> Barron + 4th round pick
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
I don't see him as a perennial pro bowler but he'll fit in well there. Randle, whom I'm a big fan of, and Hill have more upside without a doubt to me. But as you said, it seems like a safe pick and I think that's what it is. I have no problem with it because I think Jenkins can become a nice #2/#3 receiver who finds his way onto the field. Hill is a lot more raw so I see why he wasn't the pick. I would have went with Randle over Jenkins but I'm not in the Niners war room listening to the reasoning.

As far as his upside, hm. I like the Burleson comparison. I can't think of one right now off the top of my head.
I thought Randle was too similar to Crabtree. Both are possession Wr's that won't get you a ton of separation. Niners biggest issue at WR was too many possession Wr's not getting enough separation. Jenkins definitely helps in that area.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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How did Quinn look last year? I didn't get to see much of him.
Good enough to be under contract in KC.

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Old 04-27-2012, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Speaking of that Tampa trade, I'm surprised that so few people are making the point that

Claibore >> Barron + 4th round pick
From what I am hearing, some NFL people liked Barron better. In any event it is not a one sided assessment.

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Old 04-27-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Speaking of that Tampa trade, I'm surprised that so few people are making the point that

Claibore >> Barron + 4th round pick
THIS THIS THIS.

I don't think Tampa even wanted Barron. I think they wanted Claiborne, but got a little too cute for their own good and got stuck watching Dallas wreck their ****.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
I don't see him as a perennial pro bowler but he'll fit in well there. Randle, whom I'm a big fan of, and Hill have more upside without a doubt to me. But as you said, it seems like a safe pick and I think that's what it is. I have no problem with it because I think Jenkins can become a nice #2/#3 receiver who finds his way onto the field. Hill is a lot more raw so I see why he wasn't the pick. I would have went with Randle over Jenkins but I'm not in the Niners war room listening to the reasoning.

As far as his upside, hm. I like the Burleson comparison. I can't think of one right now off the top of my head.
A few posters on another draft site i go to (can't mention it) say Santonio Holmes.

People at Illinois apparently said a mix of Brandon Lloyd and Chad Ocho Cinco (or whatever his name is now).
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