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Old 04-27-2012, 06:13 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
From what I am hearing, some NFL people liked Barron better. In any event it is not a one sided assessment.

J
Those people are silly.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
THIS THIS THIS.

I don't think Tampa even wanted Barron. I think they wanted Claiborne, but got a little too cute for their own good and got stuck watching Dallas wreck their ****.
? If we wanted him we would have taken Mo at 5, to cute for a 4th, no.
Barron was the target, Schiano wants a physical D and Mo is not physical.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
A few posters on another draft site i go to (can't mention it) say Santonio Holmes.

People at Illinois apparently said a mix of Brandon Lloyd and Chad Ocho Cinco (or whatever his name is now).
Yeah I don't understand how a "ceiling" could be Nate Burleson. Why can't a ceiling be like a WCO cross between Antonio Brown and Victor Cruz?
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
THIS THIS THIS.

I don't think Tampa even wanted Barron. I think they wanted Claiborne, but got a little too cute for their own good and got stuck watching Dallas wreck their ****.
Unless OBP is full of retards, gambling on Morris Claiborne like that for only a 4th round pick is ridiculous. I could see it if they receive A LOT by tradind down, but they only got a freaking 4th round pick. Barron was their guy.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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That 4th rounder landed us Martin and David, excellent trade with Jax!!
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Those people are silly.
I disagree. I think Barron will turnout to be the better player. Claiborne lacks elite speed and hasn't a clue on how to use his hands at the LOS to force WR's off their routes. That may work in college but at the pro level, it won't, so unless he can match WR's with elite speed, he is going to be a liability on deep patterns ever now and then.
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bucs147 View Post
Unless OBP is full of retards, gambling on Morris Claiborne like that for only a 4th round pick is ridiculous. I could see it if they receive A LOT by tradind down, but they only got a freaking 4th round pick. Barron was their guy.
I feel like I've said it 801237 times, but our DB coach knows more about Claiborne than probably any other coach in the NFL. If he gave the all clear to pass on him, I'm ok with it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:11 AM    (permalink
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I'm still sticking to the idea that I put forward earlier that TB may have feared, with Claiborne having a learning disability (which is why he scored a 4 on the Wonderlic it's been revealed), that he might have had trouble digesting a pro playbook, which is much more in-depth than a college one. I hope that's not the reason because I understand Claiborne does all he can to compensate for it and probably will do just fine, but I can't help but think that with his college coach on staff, that may have played a big part in why they passed on him.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:39 AM    (permalink
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It's been beaten to death, there is no way in hell we traded down for a 4th hoping to still snag MC. There just isn't. I don't think we had Barron rated much higher than other teams, he was going to come off the board within the next few picks after that anyway. I just think we had MC rated lower than others, and with his college coach on staff, that's fairly telling.

Consider this. Our guys going into next season at CB would have been Talib, Wright (who just made bank, for better or worse), Barber, Claiborne. And at safety? It would have been Cody Grimm, Devin Holland, Larry Asante and maybe some time by Barber. With the offences in the NFC South that is a terrifying safety situation. Barron will be an instant starter, and will contribute in our secondary more than MC would have his first year, that's a guarantee.

Also consider, the trade down netted a 4th rounder which we didn't have, which we paired with our second rounder to net Doug Martin and a later 4th. Which we later paired with our 3rd rounder to net Lavonte David. Dominik was playing with house money after that trade and after entering the draft with a [1,2,3,5,6,7] we came away with a [1,1,2,5,6,7,7] the first three of which will be instant starters, or if not in Martin's case, big contributors from Day 1.

Dominik made the first two days of the draft his *****.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:13 AM    (permalink
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I feel like I've said it 801237 times, but our DB coach knows more about Claiborne than probably any other coach in the NFL. If he gave the all clear to pass on him, I'm ok with it.
You've also still never answered me. Since when does a DB coach have the final call on a player? How do you know the DB coach didn't pound the tables to draft him and was overruled? You don't know. It just so happens to work better in your scenario to say "well he used to coach him and he told us to pass" but there are a ton of other scenarios your just ignoring because they don't fit your argument as good.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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You've also still never answered me. Since when does a DB coach have the final call on a player? How do you know the DB coach didn't pound the tables to draft him and was overruled? You don't know. It just so happens to work better in your scenario to say "well he used to coach him and he told us to pass" but there are a ton of other scenarios your just ignoring because they don't fit your argument as good.
I was supposed to answer?

He doesn't have the final call obviously, but you can be damned sure he told Dominik every single thing he knew about Claiborne. If he gave glowing reports, I'd bet the house that we would have stayed put at #5 and drafted him, but I just don't see how it could have played out that way.

Might this not have happened? Sure. But I think it is much more likely that this or something similar happened. It doesn't mean Claiborne will be a bad pro, but you have to think the info we got from Claiborne's college DB coach played a factor in our decision to trade down. If you don't think it could have played a factor, you are the ignorant one.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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Exactly. We're talking probabilities here, since none of us were in the war rooms. Do you think it's more probable that a player at a position of relative need drops into a teams lap, their college coach clamours for him and the team just ignores him or tries to get cute and risks not getting him for a 4th round pick? Or that the team rated another player higher who they knew they could get a couple picks later?

I like Claiborne, but it's pretty clear that the Bucs wanted Barron instead.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm with LL on this one. Anything positive Cooper had to say about him would be completely expected so I don't see anything but a surprisingly negative report influencing their final decision and it's FAR more likely he was an advocate for Claiborne. Positional coaches really have minimal input in the final say to begin with. It seems highly unlikely that the Bucs hinged their draft strategy for their top 5 pick based on the word of a new position coach who theoretically bashed the player who he just coached to a Thorpe Award.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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I'm with LL on this one. Anything positive Cooper had to say about him would be completely expected so I don't see anything but a surprisingly negative report influencing their final decision and it's FAR more likely he was an advocate for Claiborne. Positional coaches really have minimal input in the final say to begin with. It seems highly unlikely that the Bucs hinged their draft strategy for their top 5 pick based on the word of a new position coach who theoretically bashed the player who he just coached to a Thorpe Award.
Eh all our coaches are new. I think the scenario Irish and myself have discussed is more likely, but LL's is entirely possible to. Either way we might never really know so no reason wasting our time arguing over hypotheticals.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Take into account also that we still haven't addressed CB in this draft, we will probably but if the coaching staff thinks Talib is going to be there we have our starters in Talib Wright and Barber. Yet we were going into next year with Cody Grim and Larry Asante as our Safties, with all the great TEs in the NFC South Safety was a top priority.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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For the record, I really hate the Bucs right now. You could have moved back to 11 and let the Chiefs go up to 7 to get Tannehill, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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