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View Poll Results: What did you think of the Bruce Irvin pick?
Bad pick because there were MANY better players, including pass rushers, on the board. 32 28.57%
Bad pick because of his character red flags. He'll do something stupid. 5 4.46%
Bad pick because he's simply not that good/a development project. 6 5.36%
Bad pick because he's developmental AND has character issues. Too risky. He'll flame out. 26 23.21%
Good pick, but one or two other DEs would have been better. 21 18.75%
Great pick, best pass rusher. NFL knew, media didn't. Perfect fit. He'll prove 'em all wrong. 22 19.64%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-28-2012, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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Well Chicago GM Emery mentioned in his press conference after the first round that Bruce Irvin and Melvin Ingram not being on the board made Shea McClellin an easier choice at 19 so by some definitions Irvin wasn't a reach.

Of course Phil Emery has yet to prove he isn't a terrible GM so that doesn't necessarily redeem the pick.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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Well Chicago GM Emery mentioned in his press conference after the first round that Bruce Irvin and Melvin Ingram not being on the board made Shea McClellin an easier choice at 19 so by some definitions Irvin wasn't a reach.

Of course Phil Emery has yet to prove he isn't a terrible GM so that doesn't necessarily redeem the pick.
I LOL'd but thank you for lending yet more evidence that the pick was not a "reach" in the eyes of professional NFL evaluators.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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Anger wasn't a reach either.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:19 AM    (permalink
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The fact that the Jets, Ravens and Niners were said to all be targeting Irvin in the 1st round makes me feel really good about the pick. Thats the 3rd, 4th and 5th rated defenses in the NFL.

Oh and the fact that the team that actually took him built a 9th rated defense by plugging in guys that nobody else seemed to want...yeah I think they can evaluate defensive talent.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:21 AM    (permalink
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The fact that the Jets, Ravens and Niners were said to all be targeting Irvin in the 1st round makes me feel really good about the pick. Thats the 3rd, 4th and 5th rated defenses in the NFL.

Oh and the fact that the team that actually took him built a 9th rated defense by plugging in guys that nobody else seemed to want...yeah I think they can evaluate defensive talent.
Because the Jets haven't missed on pass rushers in the first round before. amiright?
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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Because the Jets haven't missed on pass rushers in the first round before. amiright?
So, since the Jets missed on Gholston in 2008, before Rex Ryan was hired, the Jets can't evaluate pass rushers?
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:32 AM    (permalink
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So, since the Jets missed on Gholston in 2008, before Rex Ryan was hired, the Jets can't evaluate pass rushers?
They still have the same Front Office/GM.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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Anger wasn't a reach either.
Anger was a HORRIBLY STUPID PICK because a punter isn't worth it.

If you want to explain why Irvin was a bad pick, go ahead.

But the term "reach" sucks.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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Stop being so butthurt guys! I'm just playing. I have zero intention of arguing for/against Irvin, especially when there are draftniks like Shane who have a much better/educated opinion on the matter.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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Oh man that rant is EPIC lol I love it
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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Anger wasn't a reach either.
Drafting a punter at the highest spot since Ray Guy isn't a reach? Unless they drafted the next Ray Guy, it's a reach.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:01 AM    (permalink
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Drafting a punter at the highest spot since Ray Guy isn't a reach? Unless they drafted the next Ray Guy, it's a reach.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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Stop being so butthurt guys! I'm just playing. I have zero intention of arguing for/against Irvin, especially when there are draftniks like Shane who have a much better/educated opinion on the matter.
Then quit polluting the thread!

After The Alex put us on the map, rumors are swirling that the Jaguars are scouring this very message boards for area scouts.

And PFT reports that seven other teams had The Alex ranked in the top-15.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:16 AM    (permalink
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I got woosh'd
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:38 AM    (permalink
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Pretty funny. And I understand the concerns.

But he doesn't understand the Seahawks defense at all. He'll play LEO and is a perfect fit. And he won't start this year. Their #1 need was at MLB. Their #2 need was at situational pass rusher/backup LEO to Chris Clemons.

Maybe when he's in on 3rd-and-7 for Red Bryant they'll run draws to his side and get burned... but it's not like this acquisition has somehow destroyed the Seahawks already stout run defense.
This is the thing. As a Seahawks fan, my first reaction to the pick was sheer incredulity. But then as I watched some tape of him (I really hadn't prior to the draft), it's obvious he's exactly what Pete Carroll wants in his defense. This is his Clay Matthews. Anyone who watched the Seahawks play last year knows that there's a role there just waiting for the right player to come in. Seeing what Von Miller and Aldon Smith do last year is what Seattle's hoping Irvin can do. He's just as good an athlete as either of those guys, and the major off-field problems are 4 years behind him. But compared to the other guys we'd have picked... Melvin Ingram? Irvin is more dynamic, and we've already got a solid front. The speed is what we need. If I didn't like the pick, I'd be saying so.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:20 AM    (permalink
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I gave it an F. They overdrafted a guy whom will have to significantly change his game to be successful in the NFL. Yes, he was the guy they should have drafted (based on their wants for an outside rusher), but not in the first. No one was that interested in him. I refuse to believe other NFL teams are stupid enough to take a guy purely based on first step in the first round, save Von Miller whom I still regret not realizing how great his first step was.

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But then as I watched some tape of him (I really hadn't prior to the draft)
I hope that tape had him standing up, because he played terrible as a down lineman.

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Anger was a HORRIBLY STUPID PICK because a punter isn't worth it.
He must have been married.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:39 AM    (permalink
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Taking Irvin at 15 was just dumb... I was like:





Does not compute. However, Tavon Wilson at 48 was even worse...

[IMG]http://i1.ryjbuk.pl/fd82a60488fa3a09813fc14c3e9a896e0ee97af8/****-gif-gif[/IMG]



So much fail...
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:42 AM    (permalink
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I gave it an F. They overdrafted a guy whom will have to significantly change his game to be successful in the NFL. Yes, he was the guy they should have drafted (based on their wants for an outside rusher), but not in the first. No one was that interested in him. I refuse to believe other NFL teams are stupid enough to take a guy purely based on first step in the first round, save Von Miller whom I still regret not realizing how great his first step was.
Purposely left out the stupid word 'overdrafted'. But you are very close to making a good point. It's not that he's going to 'change' his game so much as he's going to actually 'learn' a game. He's a lump of clay. An expensive, potentially extremely valuable lump of clay. Pete Carroll majored in ceramics.

But I agree with the spirit of your point in bold - that is risky.

As for you not believing other NFL teams would have taken him - you are in denial. Based on the multiple reports shown in this thread the Bears, Jets, 49ers, and Ravens all had eyes to take him in the first round.

And to that end, in today's NFL, to quote The Alex, "pass rush is one hell of a drug."
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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I refuse to believe other NFL teams are stupid enough to take a guy purely based on first step in the first round, save Von Miller whom I still regret not realizing how great his first step was.
Bruce Irvin's 10 yard split was 1.55

Von's was 1.57
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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I think Shane's rant makes me like this pick more than I already do. Irvin's perfect for that Chris Clemons role and should give the seahawks a perennial double digit sack guy.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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I hated it purely for the fact that I wanted him to go at #28 so everyone would be ranting on how dumb TT is. His post draft tweet wasnt the first time he's thrown the lack of coaching thing out there. Played out of position and was never really coached on passrush technique. Can't wait to see how he develops under NFL coaching.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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I think Shane's rant makes me like this pick more than I already do. Irvin's perfect for that Chris Clemons role and should give the seahawks a perennial double digit sack guy.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:07 AM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Might not hit that mark as a rookie but I'll be shocked if he hasn't put up at least ten sacks in a season by the time the draft rolls around, 3 years from now.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:09 AM    (permalink
descendency
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Bruce Irvin's 10 yard split was 1.55

Von's was 1.57
That's cool, but Von Miller is way faster in pads. Part of that is instincts. Part of it is just his build. I was just worried more athletic tackles in the pros would neutralize his advantage.

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But I agree with the spirit of your point in bold - that is risky.

As for you not believing other NFL teams would have taken him - you are in denial. Based on the multiple reports shown in this thread the Bears, Jets, 49ers, and Ravens all had eyes to take him in the first round.
I may regret this, but this class just didn't have a premiere pass rusher. I think his value was inflated because everyone around him was so below average (for a normal draft). There was no prototypical guy (like Julius Peppers or Mario Williams) in this draft.

I really can't understand why those teams would take a situational pass rusher in round 1. At most, he plays 35 out of 100 snaps per year until he develops some run stopping skills.
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Last edited by descendency : 04-28-2012 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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I hope that tape had him standing up, because he played terrible as a down lineman.
Playing as a down lineman in a 3-3-5 defense at 245 lbs is a recipe for failure.

Playing as a down lineman in in the Seahawks defense at 245 is a recipe for Chris Clemons. Remember when the Seahawks traded for that guy? Everyone said he was terrible and the Seahawks were dumb for getting rid of Tapp. But Clemons has flourished at the LEO spot, and so will Bruce Irvin.
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