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Old 04-29-2012, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, look at the division too:

Patriots - spread offense
Buffalo - spread offense
Miami under Philbin - spread offense

Transitioning to a more nickel based defense is almost a must for the Jets. They're playing spread offenses 8 games a season at minimum.

And I think the emergence of the 2 TE sets that NE is making popular is why guys like Barron and Smith got overdrafted this year. You need those safeties now.

Or you can do what the Eagles are doing, and running an undersized wide 9 style defense that uses very small front 7 guys fast enough to cover and hope that they can swarm to stop the run.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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It's obviously not a wide 9, but you can tell that Ryan and Pettine are trying to use smaller, faster guys in the front 7. It may not be the "base" defense, but those kinds of players are valuable because they can be utilized in passing situations. Ultimately the pure run stuffers who don't offer much against the pass like Scott, DeVito, and Pouha become less relevant - even a safety like Smith who's good against the run. And we're probably going to see two of those three (Scott and DeVito) guys phased out this season and gone after it, and the third (Pouha) gone shortly after for a more athletic NT (Ellis).

What's been interesting to me is to watch how easily teams have been able to pick apart the Jets in the middle of the field with tight ends (and occasionally backs), and with backs in the flat. I love David Harris and he's a good player, but he's not elite in coverage. Scott obviously isn't that good in coverage, neither is Eric Smith, and Jim Leonhard's tough and athletic but very small. Those TE's are one of the best ways to pick apart that man heavy, blitzing scheme - especially when the defense is weak in the middle of the field anyway in terms of coverage ability.

Obviously we're seeing teams move towards the two TE sets too. The Bengals took Charles in the 4th to play with Gresham, the Chargers took Green who's ultimately going to be the successor to Gates but I'm sure they'll play together. The Colts took tight ends in the second and third rounds too. It does make sense though, the value to having a second TE as opposed to a fullback on the field is pretty clear. Just a lot more you can do. That's why I think Conner's done soon for the Jets, not sure Sparano's going to use him.

Those safeties are obviously going to be huge for covering tight ends, the interesting thing is going to be finding an appropriate blend of size and coverage ability. That's a spot that I think becomes more of a premium position than it's been in coming years as those two TE sets continue to become more prevalent.

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Old 04-30-2012, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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So the more I watch Coples the more I come back to realizing how terrible of a pick he was. I may be wrong, buuuuuut probably not. But if this is what it takes to get Tannenbaum out of here...
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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I don't necessarily disagree, but there are a bunch of reasons I could think of that you'd feel that way. Can you elaborate some?
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...headline_stack
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Why I hate Coples, but know that I’m wrong.




Beware: Amateur Analysis Coming
I don’t like Coples because he’s actually the tallest DE that ryan has ever had. I’m actually pretty sure he’s the tallest front 7 that he’s ever had too. That worries me. It would seem to me that this kids skill set may be a bit different than what Ryan’s used before. Pundits say Coples is a lazy kid that scaled it back because …blah blah amateur psychology blah blah… and they think that Ryan can motivate him. I really don’t get that because if the single greatest motivator isn’t winning, then it would seem to already be a problem, no matter what. But I’m not a psychologist, I don’t know how that affects how he plays, so I don’t care about that. What I don’t understand about the Coples pick is the benefit of the 5 tech DL in a 34 that struggles against the run. I’m guessing that his exp playing inside is attractive because they want him to be able to stop the run on early downs, and then have the ability to move to the outside and get after the quarterback on passing downs. I figure they see him as a complete player that way. Problem is, I just don’t think that’s true. I mean, if he can’t play inside and stop the run, then that whole plan falls apart and the main issue of last years team isn’t even addressed. Watch tape. Coples inside move – kinda sucks. And that makes sense. He’s a tall guy that repped out 225 not very many times (relatively speaking, for a big guy). If he turns out to be unreliable on early downs, a liability against the run, or just not as good as current players in that department, it would seem to be a failure of a pick – and a rather boneheaded one at that considering (one of) the main weakness of the team.



But. I know that I’m wrong. It may be for one reason that someone here can identify, perhaps another that someone else can identify, maybe a combination of both, or something nobody considered. What I do know, is this:

1987 25 College Eastern Kentucky Defensive Ends
1988 26 College Eastern Kentucky Defensive Ends

1989 27 College New Mexico Highlands Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Head Coach 1990 28 College Morehead State Defensive Coordinator
1991 29 College Morehead State Defensive Coordinator
1992 30 College Morehead State Defensive Coordinator
1993 31 College Morehead State Defensive Coordinator
1994 32 NFL Arizona Cardinals Defensive Line/Linebackers
1995 33 NFL Arizona Cardinals Defensive Line/Linebackers

1996 34 College University of Cincinnati Defensive Coordinator
1997 35 College University of Cincinnati Defensive Coordinator
1998 36 College Oklahoma Defensive Coordinator
1999 37 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Line
2000 38 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Line
2001 39 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Line
2002 40 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Line
2003 41 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Line
2004 42 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Line

2005 43 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Coordinator
2006 44 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Coordinator
2007 45 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Coordinator
2008 46 NFL Baltimore Ravens Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Head Coach
2009 47 NFL New York Jets Head Coach
2010 48 NFL New York Jets Head Coach
2011 49 NFL New York Jets Head Coach

Since 2005 Rex Ryan has never had a defense finish worse than 6th overall in total defense yards against. The main difference, that I can see (with my very amateur-armchair-online-stats-analysis), is rushing touchdowns allowed. As a raven, they were tops in the league 2 times, 3rd and 7th. As a Jet? 11th, 12th, and 27th. Something went wrong. If we look at Ryan’s past, he has had problem areas before, and he fixed them. Check the stats, make your own opinion there.

But my opinion is that Ryan knows DLine better than anybody. That’s his specialty. His success comes up front.

I mean, just take a look at some of the names he’s coached, on just the Dline.

Michael McCrary
Rob Burnett
Tony Siragusa
Haloti Ngata
Sam Adams
Kelly Gregg
Trevor Pryce
Jarret Johnson
Terrell Suggs
Adalius Thomas
Rob Burnett

If you don’t know some of those names, you should. And I know some played LB later on, but that there success translated to another position should be yet another indicator that the man just knows what he is talkin about. I mean hell, Look at the LB’s he’s coached

Ray Lewis
Jamie Sharper
Peter Boulware
Ed Hartwell
Bart Scott

This of course is not to mention all the other players like McAlister and Reed that surely made those players better, and not to mention that he wasn’t always centrally in charge of decision making for placement of that talent, and not to mention that he didn’t bring all of those guys in….

…but damn. Right? He’s gotta know something I don’t. Or more accurate, somethings*.

And here’s one more:

Bart Scott – Undrafted – 6’2 240lbs.
3 years as a special teams guy, then hit it big.

David Harris – 2nd round – 6’2 245lbs
4.59 40-yard dash, 4.29 20-yard shuttle, 7.25 cone-drill, 23-reps of 225

Demario Davis – 3rd round – 6’2 235lbs
4.61 40-yard dash, 4.28 20-yard shuttle, 7.19 cone-drill, 32 reps of 225
(and the top vert and broad jump, and “intangibles off the charts” as per this website)

..Just sayin
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I thought the Irvin thing was interesting, I know it's a rumor going around. Honestly it would've been interesting, he pretty clearly had the most pass rush potential in the draft. Would've been a passing down guy, but he had a ton of upside in a 3-4, could've moved him all over the place and he had the physical ability to do whatever he wanted in that scheme. Kind of seemed redundant with Aaron Maybin around to me, but given he wouldn't have had to start for the Jets this year anyway and would've been able to develop and just rush off the edge, I could've seen it. Obviously would make sense if the Seahawks just leaked the story to make the pick look better too though.

And my guess with Coples is they found out that he really, really didn't like the coaches there. I don't think that excuses anything, and I do think that it's an issue, but I'd imagine there were some major changes at UNC when Davis got fired and he didn't like it at all. Here's a guy who obviously enjoyed playing under Davis, he would've been a high draft pick and was looked at potentially as the #2 guy in the draft heading into his senior year and the #1 senior, but decided to come back to school. Kept clean during the scandal and everything. Then his coach gets fired. New coaches come in, and he doesn't like the way they're running things/treating him. Not that same level of respect and he doesn't want to play under them, just wants to leave and get to the next level so he goes through the motions. Competes as much as possible at the Senior Bowl, Combine, and his Pro Day to make up for it, and says to take him for what he was then and his junior year.

To be clear, I don't agree with that and I don't think that it makes him any cleaner of a prospect or less likely to bust. But I bet that's the story he sold and the one that they bought. I also would imagine that if the Irvin story is true (and I do have my doubts) then they were shocked that he was off the board, panicked and tried to find a deal to trade down, couldn't find something they like, and just took a shot on Coples because he's talented and Ryan liked him.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I am not sure if Jets actually wanted Irvin in the first round because I think Jets had a package to move up for Irvin in the 2nd round in hands. With Irvin off the board, Jets went ahead and took one of best pass rusher in the first round. I doubt that Irvin was ahead of Coples in pass rushing department but we never know.

Jets got 2 pass rushing skills in first 3 rounds, which is a good start. That is important.


I disagree with the comment about Ryan knowing DL better than anyone. It is a system that utilizes DL well. No matter who is playing. Ryan has a bunch of low level DL to share roles well. Ryan has tendency to rely on big body to control the line but he goes for it if DL has pass rushing skill. Ryan taking Coples has nothing to do with him knowing DL better than anyone. It is all about bolstering pass rushing department.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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I don't necessarily disagree, but there are a bunch of reasons I could think of that you'd feel that way. Can you elaborate some?
My bad for not answering earlier. Are we just talking about why I'm hesitant on Coples? I generally try to go with my first reactions off of being introduced to a player, which I generally try to have it be in an actual game but if I must I resort to videos people have compiled. He really lacks explosion off the line. He has no burst. Plus, he's not aggressive, and you can see it by the way he tackles people, as he has to sort of wrangle them down instead of a straight-on form tackle. That isn't improper technique: that's just being soft (of course, someone with that nasty brand thing on them can't be TOO soft). What worries me also about him is his ability in space. When asked to defend options, plays in the flat, reverses, and the like, he seemed to be very lost. So in that case, while I would hope I could chalk it up to a lack of lateral speed, it seemed more like it was just him having low football IQ. He isn't all too much of a pass rusher, but I actually think he's better in that regard than as a run stopper. He's a big body and he can bring people down, but they almost always seem to be falling forward, so I wouldn't consider him very good at it. Also, he just doesn't seem to have a lot of core strength. I worry about his ability to take on two blockers and he doesn't have the agility to counterbalance that. For fun, I tried looking at tape of JPP, since he was about the same size and another questionable guy coming out of college, but the differences were astounding. Someone compared Coples to Jamaal Anderson and that seems pretty apt.

But again, while I think we could have made a better pick, it doesn't hurt to have athleticism on the line, and just having an able body there isn't such a bad idea to me. So, from my perspective, as long as he can be in the rotation, that's sort of a win (but Tannenbaum should be gone). I just don't think he'll be very good.

And as an aside, regardless of what they say, I think it's sort of funny because before they made their picks and the trades had just happened, I turned to my friend and said, "Damn NFC West. These three teams will probably all take our picks." And, from my perspective, I think they did, because I feel pretty safe in saying that we were targeting all three of their selections and I think they also all would have been better choices.
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Well, Coples has said he has grasped most of the playbook and Rex says he had six sacks today, so maybe he's amazing. Haha. I will say though that if he had just shut it down last year (of course, I looked at his 2010 stuff too), then that's almost as troubling as him simply not having the ability to make plays out there. Of course, if he can give us a few big years before he bolts off in free agency for big money, I guess that wouldn't be such a bad thing either.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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The whole thing about Coples shutting it down -from a competition standpoint, yeah it sucks. But at the same time, trying to empathize with him, I can see why he did it.

He was very close with Butch Davis and Davis' coaching staff, which is why he stayed for his senior year. Then all of a sudden, the whole scandal erupts and Davis is gone. Coples knows he is stuck there for another year. The new defensive philosophy doesn't suit his talents as much. Coples knows he is still a first round pick, so he shuts it down. The coach he supported is gone, a bunch of his teammates are suspended/kicked off the team in the scandal - it doesn't look good but he just focuses on the NFL, doesn't give two shits about the team.

It sounds bad but at the same time, I sort of understand. Ideally, you would like him to play hard either way, but lets not forget he was a 20 year old who probably felt betrayed and/or humiliated.

Sidenote: in a senior year that he apparently coasted, disappointed, didn't care, etc... he still posted 7.5 sacks. And only .5 less tackles for a loss than he did during his superlative junior year. Even if we only get Senior Year Coples for the his rookie season, that's still a really good player.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Jets apparently pulled out of a draft day deal with the Steelers (who were targeting DeCastro) to move down to #24 after Irvin was no longer on the board. Thought that was interesting. Not sure if I buy any of these rumors, but that one makes more sense than the Jets planning on taking Irvin at #16 and would explain why they were on the phone for awhile while they were OTC.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Jets apparently pulled out of a draft day deal with the Steelers (who were targeting DeCastro) to move down to #24 after Irvin was no longer on the board. Thought that was interesting. Not sure if I buy any of these rumors, but that one makes more sense than the Jets planning on taking Irvin at #16 and would explain why they were on the phone for awhile while they were OTC.

I don't know why Jets or NYC media keep saying about Irvin being our would be first round prospect of 2012 when Irvin is considered as one of the most reachable prospects in the first round. It is hilarious.


I had fixed on Jets taking Stephen Hill for the 16th overall selection but I am not sure if Coples would be available for 2nd round. That is why I could not complain about Coples. lol.


I am no longer to make a favoritism regarding prospects as I want Jets to improve coaching skills. With good coaching skill, any prospect will be at least solid player. Jets changed few coaches so we will see.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Mike Glennon may be a top 5 or 10. umm..

Logan Thomas may be a 1st round. uh?


I may be okay with it since I like to see Jets to draft QB in 2nd round like Ryan Nassib or David Fales or Zac Dysert IF Jets are planning to draft a quarterback.
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