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Old 05-12-2012, 12:52 AM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
The USC system disguises a QB's arm deficiencies. We see that in Leinart and Sanchez. Luck and Barkley have played side by side, and head to head, more than enough to make the comparisons clear. Barkley has enough arm to play in the NFL, but not much more. Luck's is a notch better. Neither will be confused with Matt Stafford, or even Ryan Tannehill.

Arm is not everything, provided you can make the major routes. Barkley has enough arm that it is not a problem. The real comparison to Luck is in the rest of the game, and this is where Luck really excels. Barkley would not have been the first pick this year, and I am unconvinced he would have been #2. This does not mean he will not be the first pick in 2013, but it would not surprise me if he was not.

J
Matt Leinart certainly didn't have a very strong arm but Mark Sanchez's is well above average; maybe not in Joe Flacco territory but certainly more than strong enough to make all the throws. I would rank Barkley's arm strength in between Leinart and Sanchez; the Matt Ryan comparison makes so much sense for Matt Barkley.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Matt Leinart certainly didn't have a very strong arm but Mark Sanchez's is well above average; maybe not in Joe Flacco territory but certainly more than strong enough to make all the throws. I would rank Barkley's arm strength in between Leinart and Sanchez; the Matt Ryan comparison makes so much sense for Matt Barkley.
How so? I see close to zero similarities between the two.

Barkley is a Brian Brohm clone. They both look so squeaky clean in terms of mechanics, both massively hyped coming out of high school, both win games, but both have below average physical tools, Barkley is even shorter than Brohm, and both struggle with pressure. Barkley is better on the boot, I'll give him him that. But Barkley's deep ball accuracy is wild and all over the place. He constantly misses receivers down field. Barkley takes false steps as well and doesn't throw with conviction. He isn't Blaine Gabbert, but you can tell he lacks poise in the pocket (something Matt Ryan displayed a ton of at BC).

Barkley benefits from having two incredible wide receivers who make plays for him after the catch or manage to pull in balls that have average accuracy (at best) down field. Heck, the guy was even outperformed this past camp by all accounts, as Barkley threw a staggering number of interceptions (no surprise, Woods has missed time in camp due to injury. Missing one of the players that saves his butt).

The sooner people realize he isn't a franchise quarterback, the easier it's going to be on everybody's feelings when he isn't doing anything in the NFL.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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How so? I see close to zero similarities between the two.

Barkley is a Brian Brohm clone. They both look so squeaky clean in terms of mechanics, both massively hyped coming out of high school, both win games, but both have below average physical tools, Barkley is even shorter than Brohm, and both struggle with pressure. Barkley is better on the boot, I'll give him him that. But Barkley's deep ball accuracy is wild and all over the place. He constantly misses receivers down field. Barkley takes false steps as well and doesn't throw with conviction. He isn't Blaine Gabbert, but you can tell he lacks poise in the pocket (something Matt Ryan displayed a ton of at BC).

Barkley benefits from having two incredible wide receivers who make plays for him after the catch or manage to pull in balls that have average accuracy (at best) down field. Heck, the guy was even outperformed this past camp by all accounts, as Barkley threw a staggering number of interceptions (no surprise, Woods has missed time in camp due to injury. Missing one of the players that saves his butt).

The sooner people realize he isn't a franchise quarterback, the easier it's going to be on everybody's feelings when he isn't doing anything in the NFL.
I'm not sure he'll ever be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL but I'll be very surprised if he's not a long-term starter for the team that drafts him (barring mismanagement by the drafting team.) He would be an excellent fit in a west coast offense. I think he's actually pretty composed in the pocket but a lot of Southern California's offense is based around using QB movement in order to set up screens etc.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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The problem with ranking Brees Vs. a lot of guys is that Brees arm has improved immensely since he came into the league. Brees has legit power behind his throws now. He might not have had Barkley's arm coming in, but it's definitely better now, and it's hard to project that much improvement going forward.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:55 AM    (permalink
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Both Barkley and Brohm are 6'2. I think it's damning praise to suggest Barkley handles pocket pressure slightly better than Blaine Gabbert. Barkley can identify the pass rush and adjust his throws without looking lost or panicked.

Brohm so utterly fell on his face as a pro that it's a difficult comparison IMO to make. At Lousville Brohm had one really productive season, his senior year.

If things go as planned this season for USC, Barkley is going to be tested against one of the nation's best defenses in a BCS game. We'll all have a very clear idea of what his true skillset is before the 2013 April draft.

Yes Barkley was overhyped by USC fans coming out of HS, but IMO he's still an elite pro prospect, he just doesn't have a freak arm.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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How so? I see close to zero similarities between the two.

Barkley is a Brian Brohm clone. They both look so squeaky clean in terms of mechanics, both massively hyped coming out of high school, both win games, but both have below average physical tools, Barkley is even shorter than Brohm, and both struggle with pressure. Barkley is better on the boot, I'll give him him that. But Barkley's deep ball accuracy is wild and all over the place. He constantly misses receivers down field. Barkley takes false steps as well and doesn't throw with conviction. He isn't Blaine Gabbert, but you can tell he lacks poise in the pocket (something Matt Ryan displayed a ton of at BC).

Barkley benefits from having two incredible wide receivers who make plays for him after the catch or manage to pull in balls that have average accuracy (at best) down field. Heck, the guy was even outperformed this past camp by all accounts, as Barkley threw a staggering number of interceptions (no surprise, Woods has missed time in camp due to injury. Missing one of the players that saves his butt).

The sooner people realize he isn't a franchise quarterback, the easier it's going to be on everybody's feelings when he isn't doing anything in the NFL.
This time of the year, it is always popular to attack QB's because nobody can prove anybody wrong. Barkley is clearly the top prospect for next year's draft but he still needs a great season to justify his ranking, the same for all prospects. I don't think he is in the Luck or RG111 category of prospects but he is still very likely to go #1 overall unless he has a miserable senior season.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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This time of the year, it is always popular to attack QB's because nobody can prove anybody wrong. Barkley is clearly the top prospect for next year's draft but he still needs a great season to justify his ranking, the same for all prospects. I don't think he is in the Luck or RG111 category of prospects but he is still very likely to go #1 overall unless he has a miserable senior season.
It's popular to attack quarterbacks in the preseason? What are you talking about? This is generally the time everybody sits on their hands and doesn't watch a thing and just goes with the flow.

I've been watching a ton of tape lately. I've worked as an analyst for many years on the internet and I'm taking over as the television color commentator for a program this year. There is plenty out there that you could attempt to "prove me wrong" with, it's called tape. I've been watching it constantly, and I see a quarterback who will never be a franchise guy. I called this with Jimmy Clausen as well a couple years ago. It's the same exact situation to Brohm and Clausen. Everybody is overrating Barkley because he was a top recruit, at a top program, and puts up good numbers with ridiculous surrounding talent in a system that disguises their weaknesses.

The tape never lies. If anybody really wanted to argue with me about Barkley, my suggestion would be to turn on the tape and gain some actual knowledge.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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This time of the year, it is always popular to attack QB's because nobody can prove anybody wrong. Barkley is clearly the top prospect for next year's draft but he still needs a great season to justify his ranking, the same for all prospects. I don't think he is in the Luck or RG111 category of prospects but he is still very likely to go #1 overall unless he has a miserable senior season.

Actually, that's not clear at all.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Actually, that's not clear at all.
Barkley isn't even clearly the best quarterback prospect, yet alone the best prospect overall.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Barkley isn't even clearly the best quarterback prospect, yet alone the best prospect overall.

I actually think it's "pretty clear" Barkley's the 3rd best QB prospect.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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I actually think it's "pretty clear" Barkley's the 3rd best QB prospect.
I haven't evaluated the entire group at the top like I plan on doing before the year starts, but I would put Barkley at least behind Landry Jones right now.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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I haven't evaluated the entire group at the top like I plan on doing before the year starts, but I would put Barkley at least behind Landry Jones right now.
He is not behind Jones. If anything I'd put him behind Wilson and possibly Bray.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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I haven't evaluated the entire group at the top like I plan on doing before the year starts, but I would put Barkley at least behind Landry Jones right now.

I'd say Logan Thomas has a better chance of being ahead of him than Jones. But then again, I don't like Jones.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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He is not behind Jones. If anything I'd put him behind Wilson and possibly Bray.
We will see come next April. All I know is Landry Jones will be the superior NFL player. People keep blasting Landry for next to no reason, yet praise Barkley and his below average tools.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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He doesn't have below average tools. He has more than adequate physical tools and will be just fine in the NFL.

Jones? I'm not so sure, but I already know where this one is headed.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Jones gets blasted because you are sucking his dick for the same reason you knock Bark. They both play with superior talent, and Bark outplayed him. Jones went to **** as soon as Broyles got hurt, he throws picks left and right, and plays in a system that is even more QB friendly than USC's.

Jones isnt even the best QB on OU's roster.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Jones gets blasted because you are sucking his dick for the same reason you knock Bark. They both play with superior talent, and Bark outplayed him. Jones went to **** as soon as Broyles got hurt, he throws picks left and right, and plays in a system that is even more QB friendly than USC's.

Jones isnt even the best QB on OU's roster.
Seems like somebody is getting upset I'm knocking his precious quarterback. How cute.

Landry struggled at the end of last season, yes. The guy still has far superior tools and has made far more NFL throws on tape.

It's also quite laughable that you're going to attempt to argue Oklahoma has a better quarterback on the roster when the other quarterbacks on the roster have 20 attempts combined last year. Putting a little too much stock in a spring game performance?
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Seems like somebody is getting upset I'm knocking his precious quarterback. How cute.

Landry struggled at the end of last season, yes. The guy still has far superior tools and has made far more NFL throws on tape.

It's also quite laughable that you're going to attempt to argue Oklahoma has a better quarterback on the roster when the other quarterbacks on the roster have 20 attempts combined last year. Putting a little too much stock in a spring game performance?

I just find it comical that you are all over Jones' nuts when he is in serious danger of losing his job to Bell. Sure, he has a better arm...but it dont mean dick if you cant keep from throwing it to the other team.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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If there were a June NFL draft, Barkley would be the first QB taken and it's not just about tools. His mental game right now is ahead of most of the QBs in the class. He's polished and there aren't many holes in his game from a technical or execution standpoint. Barkley is a smart QB who knows when he should attack a secondary and when to take what the coverage gives him.

There's that USC QB stigma, but Barkley simply isn't Sanchez or Leinart.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:23 PM    (permalink
Dangermouse
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I don't understand people saying Barkley doesn't have a big arm.



If you put on the tape you'll see him regularly zipping 60 yarders and keeping them accurate.


I think his arm is actually a strength.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
I don't understand people saying Barkley doesn't have a big arm.



If you put on the tape you'll see him regularly zipping 60 yarders and keeping them accurate.


I think his arm is actually a strength.
This guy just compared Landry Jones to Kellen Moore and said Matt Barkley has a big arm.

Can people be banned for stupidity? If so, put this guy at the top of the list.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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This guy just compared Landry Jones to Kellen Moore and said Matt Barkley has a big arm.

Can people be banned for stupidity? If so, put this guy at the top of the list.
Oh grow up. I'm allowed my opinion. Even if the Landry Jones judgement was premature, Barkley definitely has a strong arm. Like I say 60 yarders on the tape.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Oh grow up. I'm allowed my opinion. Even if the Landry Jones judgement was premature, Barkley definitely has a strong arm. Like I say 60 yarders on the tape.
I've seen Barkley throw 50+, but I have yet to see them thrown accurately. The guy misses all over the place down field.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by raiderz4life View Post
He doesn't have below average tools. He has more than adequate physical tools and will be just fine in the NFL.
meh, his tools are simply adequate and are probably below average relative to other starting QB's in the league.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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Landry struggled all season, yes.
Fixed that for you.
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