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Old 05-16-2012, 09:09 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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I said it before that draft, after that draft, and after his "impressive" (lol) rookie season: he's not going to be a good QB. I think he was a bad prospect and didn't understand the love he got. I still don't understand the love he gets.

I'm going to say it yet again...Sam Bradford will have a worse career than Clausen and Skelton. Well, assuming Clausen can get out of Carolina soon.


So that's why I'm down on him.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by georgiafan View Post
Real franchise QB's dont need talent around him to win they make the players around them better. Look at Matt Ryan as a rookie look Stafford he had one of the worst rushing games in the NFL and a avg at best OL.
Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Stafford had Megatron.
Bradford had who last year that wasn't an overglorified 2nd or 3rd WR??
Even when healthy, which one of Bradford's WRs would have been starters on another NFL team??

The only QB I know who's won with marginal WR talent around him is Tom Brady.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Stafford had Megatron.
Bradford had who last year that wasn't an overglorified 2nd or 3rd WR??
Even when healthy, which one of Bradford's WRs would have been starters on another NFL team??

The only QB I know who's won with marginal WR talent around him is Tom Brady.
hines ward, cedric wilson, antwaan randel el=marginal WR talent


about bradford though, im not really going to be nice about it because i think he really kinda sucks and doesnt have too much of a future as an NFL QB. He was promising his rookie year i suppose but once he was forced to throw 10 yards down the field, that promise kinda disappeared. No one fears sam bradford, i dont expect that to change very much
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:53 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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Did I just read where someone called Hines Ward a marginal WR talent?

Hines Ward was a top possession receiver. The "marginal" version of Hines Ward is more like an Earl Bennett.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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Did I just read where someone called Hines Ward a marginal WR talent?

Hines Ward was a top possession receiver. The "marginal" version of Hines Ward is more like an Earl Bennett.
hines ward was always pretty average. the only thing that separates a guy like him from a guy like steve smith, or even cotchery his replacement is that he throws a good block and an even better blind side block.

just cause he was paid like a top WR for so many years doesnt mean he was actually a top WR
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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Hines Ward may not be a HOFer, but he's not what I would ever call a 'marginal' WR.

Some guys are so clutch and dependable all the time that people forget what they bring to an offense.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Stafford had Megatron.
Bradford had who last year that wasn't an overglorified 2nd or 3rd WR??
Even when healthy, which one of Bradford's WRs would have been starters on another NFL team??

The only QB I know who's won with marginal WR talent around him is Tom Brady.
Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Hines Ward may not be a HOFer, but he's not what I would ever call a 'marginal' WR.

Some guys are so clutch and dependable all the time that people forget what they bring to an offense.
i was calling it a marginal group, hines ward as your #1 just is pretty average imo. Wilson and ARE were pretty atrocious
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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i was calling it a marginal group, hines ward as your #1 just is pretty average imo. Wilson and ARE were pretty atrocious
I get what your trying to say when you compare the pitt WR group has a whole at the time was prob somewhere in the teens in the NFL.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.
Steven Jackson wasn't a top 5 tailback in either '10 or '11. And he was hurt for much of last year.
Roddy White had a 1200 yard/6 TD season the year before Matt Ryan was drafted.

Give Bradford decent protection and WR talent that can beat man coverage deep and get open across the middle and we'll see if Bradford is trash or not.

How many people were saying Matt Stafford was looking like a bust before last year??

When a QB is injured or playing hurt for most of the season, it's not really a fair analysis to judge whether he's any good or not.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Steven Jackson wasn't a top 5 tailback in either '10 or '11. And he was hurt for much of last year.
Roddy White had a 1200 yard/6 TD season the year before Matt Ryan was drafted.

Give Bradford decent protection and WR talent that can beat man coverage deep and get open across the middle and we'll see if Bradford is trash or not.

How many people were saying Matt Stafford was looking like a bust before last year??

When a QB is injured or playing hurt for most of the season, it's not really a fair analysis to judge whether he's any good or not.
Steven Jackson is a productive HB at the worst he is a top 10 HB the last 2 years. Everyone agrees that the WR core needs more talent.

But lets take a closer look at his stats from 2010. He threw for a lot of yards in over 3,500 but he also had the 3rd most pass attempts in the NFL with 590. You give him a pass on interceptions bc he was a rookie. His yards perr attempt was 30th in the NFL that year with under 6. The scary thing is that even though his yards per attemp is really low he didnt complete a lot of pass with 60% that year.

Compare his yard per attempt that year to QB's that year and he is below people like Rex Grossman, Tarvaris Jackson, Tebow, Curtis Painter, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Freeman, Cassell and barely above Colt Mccoy. His QB rating that year is also below most of the names I just mentioned.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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1 - 3 OC's in 3 years, creates a lack of stability, and hinders development.
2 - His offensive line is terrible, he is constantly on his back, and is developing TES.
3 - His wide recievers are nothing more than a collection of backups.
4 - He cant stay healthy and could not before he won the lottery.
5 - He's not at Oklahoma, in the safety of their spread offense.
6 - He does not have huge college windows to throw the ball through anymore.
7 - Even in a dome his arm strength and accuracy are an issue, especially on any vertical throws, and defenses pack it in tight on him.
8 - He was not a legitimate #1 pick at QB to begin with, and neither was Clausen, who I also had rated higher than Sam.

I am not overly high on him, but I can not say he has gotten a fair shake by any means, no stability, no protection, and no weapons. His development has constantly been hindered. I am not sure anyone can fairly gage him until he gets some thing besides S. Jackson to work with. Maybe with pieces around him he turns into J. Montana...
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Real franchise QB's dont need talent around him to win they make the players around them better. Look at Matt Ryan as a rookie look Stafford he had one of the worst rushing games in the NFL and a avg at best OL.
Matt Ryan had Roddy White AND Michael Turner when they were both hitting their prime.

Who the **** needs a rushing game when you have a freak like Megatron? Have you seen the ****** throws into double and triple coverage that Stafford gives to Megatron only to see Megatron come out with it? I'm not saying Bradford will be an elite QB, but he is not as bad as he looks and Stafford is definitely not as good as he looks. Bradford and Stafford are underrated and overrated, respectively.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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i was calling it a marginal group, hines ward as your #1 just is pretty average imo. Wilson and ARE were pretty atrocious
Hines Ward's rankings on the all-time list...

Receptions - 8th
Yards - 18th
Touchdowns - 13th

That isn't what I would call average. I would say he has been a star player. Not a HOFer, but a star nonetheless.

Additionally, the Steelers have one of the league's top run games and Roethlisberger throws a lot less than the league average. As well as the fact that they have a solid team with a well-developed system and a culture of winning. I think it is an unfair comparison.

Last edited by stlouisfan37 : 05-16-2012 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Different choice of wording
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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I never thought that highly of him. Bradford is just another in a long line of overrated, stat-whoring Big-12 quarterbacks who pad their stats against bad defenses in college and have to be "surrounded by weapons" just in order to look halfway decent in the NFL.

Can't maintain any type of consistency from year to year even for the better one's. They're either above average or horrible once they get to the NFL and see defense being played for the first time.

Bradford looks a lot like Jimmy Clausen with no talent around him. Nevermind the fact that Bradford can't stay healthy.

I don't believe that the folks who had Clausen even with Bradford, or even ahead of him as prospects are going to end up that far off in the long run, if they end up being off at all.

For all the talk that Clausen was the next Rick Mirer from Notre Dame, it's Bradford's career that's seemingly going to mirror Mirer's career, at least to this point.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Tough crowd. 2nd year injury challenged QB who's not a pro bowler yet??

Cut him. He sucks forever.

Same can wipe his ass with that ROTY award he won in 2010 too.lol
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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Another thing about bradford is the divison he in is horrible and the QB's in that division might be the worst group of all time. His rookie year a 7 win team won the division.

You can say all you want to about supporting cast and they do matter but elite QB's make the players around them better. Bradford has yet do that
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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To me he just doesn't have it. I don't buy the whole 3 new offenses in 3 years thing. Hell Jason Campbell had 7 in 7 years including 4 in college and 3 his first 3 years in DC and he still blew when he finally got that stability. Not to mention he lead his team to an undefeated national championship in his fourth year and fourth offensive system. Bradford should be having his way with that division expect for SF possibly. He is starting to develop the David Carr/Patrick Ramsey syndrome. It's not entirely his fault but at least half if not more of the blame has to be put on him. For being a number 1 overall pick you need to produce. Period. IMO this is his make or break year. If he shits the bed again I would entertain the thought of moving on, deeply.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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Another thing about bradford is the divison he in is horrible and the QB's in that division might be the worst group of all time. His rookie year a 7 win team won the division.

You can say all you want to about supporting cast and they do matter but elite QB's make the players around them better. Bradford has yet do that
How many elite qbs are there and at what point in their careers did they hit their elite status..

You act as if any qb can come into that team and win. The entire team needs to be rebuilt, not just on offense.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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How many elite qbs are there and at what point in their careers did they hit their elite status..

You act as if any qb can come into that team and win. The entire team needs to be rebuilt, not just on offense.
Here lately QB's have started to win early over the last 5 years QB's like Ryan, Flacco, Dalton, Newton all won games pretty early. Bradford has no excuse not win games bc the divison is so weak. The 49ers won 13 games last year, but overall the last 2 years that divison is a joke.

An elite QB doesn't need talent around him to win a superbowl he makes the players around him better. This is why Matt Ryan will never be a top 5 QB bc if he is ever gonna win the superbowl he is gonna have to have a lot of talent around him. Bradford could be a avg to good QB but I don't see him ever getting past that level.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Originally Posted by georgiafan View Post
Here lately QB's have started to win early over the last 5 years QB's like Ryan, Flacco, Dalton, Newton all won games pretty early. Bradford has no excuse not win games bc the divison is so weak. The 49ers won 13 games last year, but overall the last 2 years that divison is a joke.

An elite QB doesn't need talent around him to win a superbowl he makes the players around him better. This is why Matt Ryan will never be a top 5 QB bc if he is ever gonna win the superbowl he is gonna have to have a lot of talent around him. Bradford could be a avg to good QB but I don't see him ever getting past that level.
Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Falcons were butt after Mike Vick left, and then their coach. 2 men brought the dirty bird back to life.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.
Watkins will probably suck it a Clemson thing.

Woods will be there, I don't know about Bradford till 2015. And if they can't find another WR through the draft or FA in 3 years hmmm. seems like Qb isn't the only problem. Also very optimistic thinking he'll be around for a total 5/6 years
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.
None of the QB's we are talking about was in a perfect situation you could say they had a better supporting cast then Bradford but all of them faced issues.

Ryan - The falcons was a train wreck when he was drafted both on and off the field. The OL went from bad to respectable bc of Ryan being smart and getting rid of the ball fast. The OL was so bad they reached badly trading up for Sam Baker.

Cam Newton - He has overpaid and overpriced HB's a WR that was past his prime and no proven depth at WR.

Dalton - lack of a running game, terrible owners and a very talented but rookie #1 WR.

Flacoo - Good defense and running game but no elite WR's.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Fans are fickle and follow the 'what have you done lately' trends. Hence all the hate for Sanchez and Bradford no matter what they did the year before. I think both will rebound and have very successful careers and a lot of people will be left with egg on the face disclaiming they ever criticized either.
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