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Old 05-17-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by georgiafan View Post
Another thing about bradford is the divison he in is horrible and the QB's in that division might be the worst group of all time. His rookie year a 7 win team won the division.

You can say all you want to about supporting cast and they do matter but elite QB's make the players around them better. Bradford has yet do that
I'd like you to name a sophomore QB that was elite enough to take a bad team to a division championship, not even getting into the 9ers surge that would've meant Bradford would've needed to lead that team to at least 12 wins, assuming they beat the 9ers in both games, to get to that division title. Just one would be nice. If you can do more than just one that'd be great, but can we start ******** on Cam if the Panthers can't win the NFC South this year?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by georgiafan View Post
Here lately QB's have started to win early over the last 5 years QB's like Ryan, Flacco, Dalton, Newton all won games pretty early. Bradford has no excuse not win games bc the divison is so weak. The 49ers won 13 games last year, but overall the last 2 years that divison is a joke.

An elite QB doesn't need talent around him to win a superbowl he makes the players around him better. This is why Matt Ryan will never be a top 5 QB bc if he is ever gonna win the superbowl he is gonna have to have a lot of talent around him. Bradford could be a avg to good QB but I don't see him ever getting past that level.
One of these is not like the other. Look at the talent Ryan, Flacco and Dalton have to work with. Now look at what Sam Bradford had to work with. Now that you feel stupid, look at how many more wins Cam got than Sam did, then remember that Cam had a good OL, multiple good backs so that one getting injured didn't take away the running attack...oh yeah, and he had Steve Smith.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.


I knew you were a mindreader!
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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I will agree that the Rams haven't done a good job at surrounding Bradford with WR help. However, I was never really a fan of him coming out. I always thought he was just a product of the Oklahoma offense like most QBs out of Oklahoma are. Same with Landry Jones.

Bradford to me isn't much better than Mark Sanchez and Bradford's potential isn't elite. More of like an Alex Smith in my opinion.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
His lack of any actual arm strength will always limit him, he simply can not throw a 15+ yard pass with accuracy or zip

And the Rams have used multiple picks on receivers even trading for Brandon Lloyd
Name these amazing WR's they traded for
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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hines ward, cedric wilson, antwaan randel el=marginal WR talent


You're funny
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by georgiafan View Post
Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.
Roddy said he didn't care about becoming great his 1st few seasons and had 1,000 yard receiving. Mike Turner carried the falcons not Matt. Stafford lobbed it up to Megatron half the time and has a pretty good supporting cast in Titus,Nate, Scheffler, and Pettigrew.

Who from Sam Bradford supporting cast would have started on the lions? The rams best WR not counting Lloyd who joined during the season would of have been the 6th option for the Lions.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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Name these amazing WR's they traded for
gj reading
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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gj reading
Named these amazing WR's they picked
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:30 AM    (permalink
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Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.
Tampa Bay should have held on to Steve Young then haha.
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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Named these amazing WR's they picked
Also never said they are amazing, but they have basically spent an entire draft of picks worth plus 2 WR & 2 RB this year, he is almost out of excuses

2010
4. Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincy
5. Michael Hoomanawanui, TE, Illinois
6. Fendi Onobun, TE, Houston

2011
2. Lance Kendricks, TE, Wisconsin
3. Austin Pettis, WR, Boise State
4. Greg Salas, WR, Hawaii
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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I'm not going to fault the Rams for not getting Blackmon but they should have at least found a way to get Floyd.
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
Named these amazing WR's they picked
Last year they picked Pettis and Salas. They were highly criticized for taking a pair of possession receivers that were similar to a few guys they already had. Salas may turn out decent. I doubt if Pettis makes the team this year.

This year they took Brian Quick and Chris Givens. I think Quick has all the tools to really be something. Givens has wheels and will stretch the field. While neither has yet to play a down, IMO they are both much better prospects than the guys they took last year.
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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I'm not going to fault the Rams for not getting Blackmon but they should have at least found a way to get Floyd.
They didn't even like Floyd all that much, they had Blackmon, Jenkins, and Quick rated higher than him.
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:19 AM    (permalink
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And that's why the Rams are horrible at drafting ;)
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Also never said they are amazing, but they have basically spent an entire draft of picks worth plus 2 WR & 2 RB this year, he is almost out of excuses

2010
4. Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincy
5. Michael Hoomanawanui, TE, Illinois
6. Fendi Onobun, TE, Houston

2011
2. Lance Kendricks, TE, Wisconsin
3. Austin Pettis, WR, Boise State
4. Greg Salas, WR, Hawaii
Nice 2010 draft, cause we all know the good WR's and TE's are picked in 3rd day of the draft. After that draft Sam Bradford had no excuses.

Pettis and Salas are fighting for the 5th and 6th WR spots because they are so amazing. I don't see how Bradford with that godly supporting cast he had last year.

Quote:
A Rams team insider told Pro Football Weekly that Steve Smith will likely be St. Louis' fourth receiver if he's healthy enough to make the roster.
Only Brian Quick, Chris Givens, and Danny Amendola are considered locks to make the 53, and it's wide open for the fifth and sixth spots if Smith can secure the fourth. "It really is up in the air between Brandon Gibson, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis and Greg Salas," said the Rams source. "I really was starting to like Salas before he got hurt. He reminds me of a bigger Amendola."
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I think Bradford is a middle of the pack type QB. At his best. I don't think he'll be a great player, but I don't fault him for last season. That offensive scheme was the polar opposite of what he needed. It magnified all his weaknesses (and the offensive line by making deeper drop backs and longer, drawn out throws) and hid all his strengths.

When he was in an offense that got rid of the ball quickly, then he was mildly effective and won 7 games as a rookie. The offensive line looked better, he looked better and the Rams looked like they were an NFL team. When they got away from that, Roger Saffold looked like the RT that he is (playing out of position) and the rest of the line was forced to sustain blocks. It bombed in their faces since it played to all their weaknesses, Bradford included.

I think Bradford does lack the NFL tools of the great QBs currently in the game today. I don't think he has the vertical passing ability to be an elite player. I never thought he did. I think he can be a solid QB. Is he going to make a Pro Bowl? In the NFC? Nowadays? Probably not even with a career year. But can he win and lead a team to the playoffs? If he has the right system and players around him, yes. He's more the type of QB that needs everything around him clicking on all cylinders so he can look good. When I watched him at Oklahoma, he looked like the 5th best player on their offense. Wasn't asked to do much, didn't make difficult throws and he got the ball to skilled players in space. It was easy for him. The NFL hasn't been easy. It wouldn't surprise me if he was a bust and it wouldn't surprise me if he turned into a halfway decent QB. If he turned into an elite player... color me shocked. He's been one of the worst QBs in the NFL for the past two years. That can be tough on a player. He's gotta know it.

Would I trade him? I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it if I were making the calls. I would have never drafted him in the first place, but he just doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that is going to get your team to that next level. He might be a David Garrard or Alex Smith type where he flashes just enough, plays well just enough to maintain a starting job, but at the same time the type of guy you're always looking to upgrade.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Who were the 4 other better offensive players on those OU offenses when Bradford was the starter?

There sure aren't in the NFL doing jack.
Bradford maxed out Stoops' offense and it's never looked the same before or since. He made reads that most QBs don't in that OU spread. I don't buy that Bradford was 'handing off' to his WRs at OU.

He elevated the play of that entire unit by himself.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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The only reason you need to consider - because Jeff Fisher is where talented QBs go to become game managers.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
The only reason you need to consider - because Jeff Fisher is where talented QBs go to become game managers.
This is true plus Jeff doesn't really like drafting WR's early besides Dyson and Britt. Vince young WR's for a while were Roydell Williams, Justin Gage, Courtney Roby and a couple other scrubs.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Nice 2010 draft, cause we all know the good WR's and TE's are picked in 3rd day of the draft. After that draft Sam Bradford had no excuses.

Pettis and Salas are fighting for the 5th and 6th WR spots because they are so amazing. I don't see how Bradford with that godly supporting cast he had last year.
I never liked the Austin Pettis pick, and thought Salas was kind of redundant since they already had Amendola. So if Salas becomes the slot WR he should be, what do they do with Amendola?

If I'm not mistaken, Pettis is a good ST's contributor. He can hold kicks and play Gunner, I believe. Drew Bennett was the holder for the Titans way back when, so maybe that'll intrigue Fisher. Plus, he was a 3rd RD pick, and it could be hard to cut ties after one season (but it should be remembered that he wasn't a Fisher pick, so draft status may not mean much). They should hang on to Danario Alexander, in my opinion. I wanted the Titans to trade for him last season after Britt went down. So I guess that leaves Brandon Gibson as the odd man out, but he'd probably be picked up as a 5th WR somewhere else pretty quickly.

X WR: Brian Quick, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis (ST),
Z WR: Chris Givens, Steve Smith,
Y WR: Danny Amendola, Greg Salas,

So that's 7 WR's. Not sure why Steve Smith is considered to have a near automatic roster spot, but if he can return to form, then he could definitely handle #2 Z WR duties.


Also, I have no clue why I'm talking about the Rams receivers...
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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This is true plus Jeff doesn't really like drafting WR's early besides Dyson and Britt. Vince young WR's for a while were Roydell Williams, Justin Gage, Courtney Roby and a couple other scrubs.
To be fair, when you've got a QB like VY why bother wasting resources on Receivers? Just get guys that can run block and stock up the D.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:35 AM    (permalink
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He's not good with pressure in his face at all. I think he has the worst completion % of any starter over the last two years while pressured (just going off memory maybe someone can look that up for me). You can't be a top QB with this flaw and that's the only way you can justify his contract. The Rams failed to improve their OL so it's hard to see him succeeding anytime soon.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Not sure why Steve Smith is considered to have a near automatic roster spot, but if he can return to form, then he could definitely handle #2 Z WR duties.
He wasn't ready last year because of his injury. There's a reason the Giants didn't work very hard to sign him. Philadelphia was full of horrible decision makers last season and played him when he still wasn't 100%. Bradford loves his slot and Steve Smith at 100% is a way better slot option than Amendola at 100%.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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It's a shame what happened to Stevey.

He should have just listened to the Giants medical staff and he wouldn't be in this position.
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