Can Matt Cassel take KC far ala Alex Smith in 2011? - Page 3

vidae · 05-20-2012, 04:04 PM

So now Thomas is a great WR? Really?

Brothgar · 05-20-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

Broncos OL is very suspect IMO. Last year Clady gave up 9 sacks and 12 penalties. He's been average since his rookie year.

Franklin struggled last year, especially against speed rushers. Walton also struggled more often than not.

I think you'll see Peyton struggling against the pressure with his OL.

That has a lot to do with the QB though. Tebow held the ball alot and that cod awful throwing motion. Any O-Line would have an inordinate amount of sacks. I honestly think this is the best O-Line that Peyton Manning has worked with.

bigbluedefense · 05-20-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

So now Thomas/Decker are great WRs? Really?

Yes. Yes they are. They have great ability, they just had Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton throwing them the ball.

Both of them will have great seasons this year. Thomas has a ton of potential, and Decker is a very solid WR who gets open. Both were open a lot last year but just couldn't get the ball.

BoneKrusher · 05-20-2012, 04:10 PM

Can Matt Cassel take KC far ala Alex Smith in 2011?

NO'
the Chiefs haven't won a playoff game since 93.

vidae · 05-20-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Yes. Yes they are. They have great ability, they just had Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton throwing them the ball.

Both of them will have great seasons this year. Thomas has a ton of potential, and Decker is a very solid WR who gets open. Both were open a lot last year but just couldn't get the ball.

Give me a break BBD. Great ability != great players. A lot of players have great ability.

And they were open because Tebow ran around for 20 seconds every goddamn play. It's hard to ask a corner or safety to follow someone that long. With a more traditional offense they'll be "open" a lot less.

bigbluedefense · 05-20-2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Give me a break BBD. Great ability != great players. A lot of players have great ability.

And they were open because Tebow ran around for 20 seconds every goddamn play. It's hard to ask a corner or safety to follow someone that long. With a more traditional offense they'll be "open" a lot less.

You're in denial if you don't think that these guys will put up better numbers with Peyton Manning. Thomas came into his own at the end of last season, he just needed a qb who can get him the ball.

Thomas was a developmental guy coming in. His injuries coupled with learning the pro system coupled with Tebow made his development slower than expected. But now with Peyton, watch out.

And Decker has always been a scrappy guy who gets open. But Tebow sucks.

Come on vidae, don't be in denial. They'll have a good passing game as long as Peyton is healthy.

Splat · 05-20-2012, 04:24 PM

I actually think Thomas is going to be a pretty good WR if he can stay on the field.

vidae · 05-20-2012, 04:25 PM

I never denied they'd have a good passing game. It's almost a given with Peyton. I'm saying that you have to prove you're a great player before you're called a great player. Neither of those guys have proven anything yet.

ChiefMojo · 05-20-2012, 04:28 PM

Imo the Chiefs are a Super Bowl team already if it weren't for Matt Cassel. Sure there are concerns from many how some of KC's studs come back from injury but from the sound of it all three are ahead of schedule in their rehab.

Both sides of the ball is stacked with a lot of young weapons and they will only continue to improve as the years go by. This KC team outside of QB (I think Stanzi should get a shot) is built for a long term success and not just a flash in the pan.

RaiderNation · 05-20-2012, 04:45 PM

I've been saying all off season long KC has a potential playoff caliber team, but not with Cassel as the starting QB. The AFC West is now stacked with QB's with Manning, Rivers and Palmer and Cassel is by far 4th behind those 3. The NFL is a QB driven league and I have a hard time seeing Cassel taking down those 3 QB's who all have had major success at times in their careers.

Their defense is strong, but not near the level the 49ers last year where they were able to lift Alex Smith into the playoffs. Jamall Charles is the big factor in KC, just like McFadden in Oakland. If one of those 2 can stay healthy for most the season their team has a real shot at winning the division. If not Denver or San Diego should be the winners.

vidae · 05-20-2012, 04:49 PM

Sorry but I wouldn't put Palmer in the same universe with Rivers and Peyton. If you want to talk about the AFC West as a stacked QB division it ends after those two guys.

whatadai · 05-20-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

And they were open because Tebow ran around for 20 seconds every goddamn play. It's hard to ask a corner or safety to follow someone that long. With a more traditional offense they'll be "open" a lot less.

So you're saying Tebow made Decker and Thomas look better than they are? Not the other way around? LOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Splat · 05-20-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderNation

I've been saying all off season long KC has a potential playoff caliber team, but not with Cassel as the starting QB. The AFC West is now stacked with QB's with Manning, Rivers and Palmer and Cassel is by far 4th behind those 3. The NFL is a QB driven league and I have a hard time seeing Cassel taking down those 3 QB's who all have had major success at times in their careers.

Did I miss something? When did Carson Palmer become good again?

He hasn't been worth a dam since 2009.

The AFC West isn't stacked at QB...

phlysac · 05-20-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

49ers fans have been acting like their team is the greatest thing since sliced bread all offseason.

Generalization much?

KCStud · 05-20-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223

That has a lot to do with the QB though. Tebow held the ball alot and that cod awful throwing motion. Any O-Line would have an inordinate amount of sacks. I honestly think this is the best O-Line that Peyton Manning has worked with.

Not so sure about that. Clady gave up 7 sacks and even more penalties in 2010 with Orton.

KCStud · 05-20-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderNation

I've been saying all off season long KC has a potential playoff caliber team, but not with Cassel as the starting QB. The AFC West is now stacked with QB's with Manning, Rivers and Palmer and Cassel is by far 4th behind those 3. The NFL is a QB driven league and I have a hard time seeing Cassel taking down those 3 QB's who all have had major success at times in their careers.

Their defense is strong, but not near the level the 49ers last year where they were able to lift Alex Smith into the playoffs. Jamall Charles is the big factor in KC, just like McFadden in Oakland. If one of those 2 can stay healthy for most the season their team has a real shot at winning the division. If not Denver or San Diego should be the winners.

And if Cassel has a year like 2010? He does and KC wins the division. It's all about protection, which Cassel didn't have last year.

Barry Richardson was the worst OT in pass pro last year according to PFF. Leonard Pope, Anthony Becht and Jake O'Connell couldn't block either. They were all terrible.

Getting an elite RT in Eric Winston, a good blocking TE in Kevin Boss, and getting another key blocker in Tony Moeaki really helps Cassel, along with Donald Stephenson and Jeff Allen.
I also fully expect Branden Albert to be a very good LT this year because it's his contract year.

As long as the blocking is there, Charles, Hillis or Gray (who I really liked as a prospect) are gonna help.

The weapons are there for Cassel. The blocking will be key.

Brent · 05-20-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

49ers fans have been acting like their team is the greatest thing since sliced bread all offseason.

where did that happen? I don't recall acting that way.

San Diego Chicken · 05-20-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

What hype?

Pretty much everyone has all ready gave the Div to Peyton Manning.

That annoys me too.

vidae · 05-20-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

where did that happen? I don't recall acting that way.

It wasn't you.

njx9 · 05-20-2012, 08:44 PM

i love afc west threads. everyone comes out of the woodwork to talk about teams they saw at most once or twice the previous season. denver has no offense? the team took a step back since last year? matt cassel is anything other than a mediocre qb on his best day? brandon flowers, tamba hali and whatever the other player was are as good as willis, smith and bowman?

bleh. the team with the best qb has been favored solely for that reason for most of the last decade. the fact that denver is now favored and SD isn't for once is pretty obvious. kc will never be a heavy favorite until *they* have a competent qb. it's that bloody simple.

farfromforgotten · 05-20-2012, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

I never denied they'd have a good passing game. It's almost a given with Peyton. I'm saying that you have to prove you're a great player before you're called a great player. Neither of those guys have proven anything yet.

Well, this is the same guy that said DHB has been "great" so far during his career with Oakland, so he might have a different definition of the word "great" than the rest of us. With that small jab out of the way... I'm fans of both Thomas and Decker and think they'll do well with whoever the QB is in the present/future.

Sure KC has the ability to make it to the playoffs this year. The AFC West will be a fun division to keep an eye on. Its going to come down to health. Easy enough to say. I think it comes down to DEN or KC. I gave up on SD a long time ago. I also found it amusing that the SD fan was already so tired of hearing the KC hype in this thread. SD was overhyped for a good decade almost. (Not so much on these boards, really with the "experts") It was sickening. I would like to see OAK become relevant again in the NFL. I think they're headed in the right direction, maybe a few years away still, though.

Ness · 05-20-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

Over the past three years, the Chiefs have routinely drafted prospects that I love (outside Jon Baldwin...I ******* hated him as a prospect). The amount of talent they have stacked on that team is absolutely ridiculous. They have three Top 11 picks starting along the defensive line in Dorsey, Jackson and Poe, they have a very solid LB core with Hali and DJ as stalworts, and Flowers and Berry are both incredible young defensive backs. Not to mention, there's a ton of undeveloped talent like Allen Bailey, Justin Houston and others stashed in the depth of that defense.

Wouldn't shock me at all to see that become one of the NFL's elite units with RC in charge. IMO, KC should win that division and I wouldn't be shocked to see a playoff victory.

I don't think they are really going to really be much of a threat year in and year out and winning any playoff games until they get an established starter at QB, regardless of how much talent they have elsewhere.

Ness · 05-20-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

It's not trolling when your team actually won the SB.

Didn't folks here get mad at Packers fans for doing that very same kind of thing?

Ness · 05-20-2012, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

where did that happen? I don't recall acting that way.

I don't think it ever happened.

VAfy-ya · 05-20-2012, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

I would argue that KC is a better team talent wise and one of the best in the league, if Charles is 90% healthy and Hillis is somewhat productive Cassel should be able to take advantage of plenty of 1 on 1 coverage, plus the defense is pretty much set 5-10 years

Okay, let's argue.....