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Old 05-23-2012, 09:15 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Isn't Minny high on their backup? Some people even want Webb to start.
That's just because he raped Detroit a couple of times.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
No way. Palmer is awful. His arm is shot.

I'd take Ponder, Flynn, Freeman, Bradford over him easily, I wouldn't even think twice about it.

Skelton and Kolb? I'd have to think about it. Palmer really is an awful qb.
Palmer's shot arm is stronger than Ponder's and Bradford's and more accurate on long throws. Ponder's young and already has problems with his arm too, and I actually like Ponder.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Jacksonville has the worst QB. Have you seen Gabbert? I mean, if that isn't blatantly obvious, I doubt you've seen Gabbert.

Seattle, Minnesota, Oakland, Cleveland, KC, and Arizona could all see major improvements by drafting a real QB. Cincinnati too.

Sam Bradford may be the biggest name on the hot seat this year. If he doesn't perform, he could be out of a job, too.

edit: If Rodgers goes down, the Pack will still be way better than a lot of teams. No chance of the #1 overall pick.
After the sophomore season that Sam just had, normally I would agree with you. However, I think that the new coaching staff is really high on him, they recognize that he is learning his 3rd new offense in three years, and he wasn't given much to work with last year. I think he gets a 2 year leash for sure. That being said, if he flops again this year there will be a lot of talk next year.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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I am not a fan of threads like this before the season is played because we don't know what strides some of the QBs will have made during the offseason and how the rookie QBs will fare. The Browns have a rookie QB starting, but it is expected that rookies have a couple years of growing pains. With a guy like Bradford, you don't invest that high of a pick in him and then set him aside after three seasons. Teams are looking to get such instant gratification that they forget that some players take a few years to develop.

The exception is Gabbert.

Teams I that have a bad QB (rookie or young player) situation that I would not expect to draft a QB next year:
MIN, SEA (Flynn gets a few years), CLE, MIA, STL

Teams I would expect to look for a passer early rounds:
ARZ, KC, BUF
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who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearfan View Post
I am not a fan of threads like this before the season is played because we don't know what strides some of the QBs will have made during the offseason and how the rookie QBs will fare. The Browns have a rookie QB starting, but it is expected that rookies have a couple years of growing pains. With a guy like Bradford, you don't invest that high of a pick in him and then set him aside after three seasons. Teams are looking to get such instant gratification that they forget that some players take a few years to develop.

The exception is Gabbert.

Teams I that have a bad QB (rookie or young player) situation that I would not expect to draft a QB next year:
MIN, SEA (Flynn gets a few years), CLE, MIA, STL

Teams I would expect to look for a passer early rounds:
ARZ, KC, BUF
There are a lot of teams that have filled their QB needs. Or, should I say, have taken a QB and dubbed him "their guy."

So, with what looks like a really strong draft class, will this be a year when perrennial contenders take a QB that falls to them because the opportunity doesn't come around that often? Brady is 35, Brees is 33, Romo is 32, Roethlisberger is 30. If a guy like Murray or Wilson were to fall through the first round do you think someone like New England or Dallas takes him much like Green Bay took Rodgers?
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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I'm thinking Josh Johnson has a slight edge on Kaepernick for the 49ers' backup job. Too early to know for sure.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Let's rank the back-up QBs:



32. St. Louis Rams – Kellen Clemens
31. Green Bay Packers – Graham Harrell
30. New Orleans Saints – Chase Daniel
29. Carolina Panthers – Derek Anderson
28. Cincinnati Bengals – Bruce Gradkowski
27. Denver Broncos – Caleb Hanie
26. San Diego Chargers – Charlie Whitehurst
25. Philadelphia Eagles – Mike Kafka
24. Oakland Raiders – Matt Leinart
23. Buffalo Bills – Vince Young
22. Jacksonville Jaguars – Chad Henne
21. Indianapolis Colts – Drew Stanton
20. New York Giants – David Carr
19. Kansas City Chiefs – Brady Quinn
18. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Dan Orlovsky
17. Washington Redskins – Rex Grossman
16. Baltimore Ravens – Tyrod Taylor
15. Pittsburgh Steelers – Charlie Batch
14. Minnesota Vikings – Rosenfels/Webb
13. Miami Dolphins – David Garrard/Tannehill
12. Atlanta Falcons – Chris Redman
11. Cleveland Browns – Colt McCoy
10. Arizona Cardinals – John Skelton
9. Seattle Seahawks – Tarvaris Jackson/Russell Wilson
8. San Francisco 49ers – Josh Johnson
7. New York Jets – Tim Tebow
6. Chicago Bears – Jason Campbell
5. New England Patriots – Brian Hoyer
4. Houston Texans – TJ Yates
3. Detroit Lions – Shaun Hill
2. Dallas Cowboys – Kyle Orton
1. Tennessee Titans – Matt Hasselbeck/Jake Locker


This was tougher than I thought. I may have guys like Tyrod Taylor (unproven,) or Charlie Batch (reliable but old,) too high while guys like Bruce Gradkowski who has struggled when he came in, may be too low because he can manage games. I wonder if Brees or Rodgers goes down this year what would happen to GB or NO
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Also, if anyone argues with me about a BACK-UP QB list, that is sad, lol.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I'll be the first!

B.Quinn > V.Young?
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Brady Quinn is not better than Chad Henne. Stupid as it is to argue, Brady Quinn is ******* terrible, while Henne is just a mediocre starter.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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I still can't believe the Chiefs signed Brady Quinn...

I think Scott Pioli did it just to troll the fans screaming for any QB not named Matt Cassel.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
brady quinn is NOT better than 12 of those guys. he's not better than any of those guys. neither is hanie.
i could give Hanie somewhat of a pass cause martz is horrible at adjusting
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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that's right David, we all know where you should be on those back up QB lists
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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The Jets have a brutal group of QBs. thankfully theyre young

Sanchez, Tebow, McElroy, Simms
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
Also, if anyone argues with me about a BACK-UP QB list, that is sad, lol.
For the most part I can agree with what you got but I think Henne should be switched with Tebow and Bruce Gradkowski did well backing up for the Raiders I would have put him higher on the list. .
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.

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Old 05-24-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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David Carr to Sinorice Moss. Un. Stoppable.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Rank the Backups at least thus far


17. SD - Touchdown Jesus
16. SF - Colin Kaepernick
15. Sea - Jackson/Wilson
14. Jets - Tim Tebow
13. Ind - Drew Stanton
12. Detroit - Shaun Hill
11. Min - Joe Webb
10. Buffalo - Vince Young
9. Houston - TJ Yates
8. Redskins - Rex Grossman/Cousins
7. Browns - McCoy
6. Cards - Skelton/Kolb
5. Miami - Matt Moore
5. Cowboys -Kyle Orton
4. Bears - Jason Campbell
3. Jags - Chad Henne
2. New Englad - Mallett / Hoyer
1. Titans - Hasselbeck/ Locker
It seems trivial to be arguing about back up qb's, but Hill is better than Webb, Yates, Grossman, McCoy(really?), and Skelton easily.
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Old 05-28-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Rank the Backups at least thus far


17. SD - Touchdown Jesus
16. SF - Colin Kaepernick
15. Sea - Jackson/Wilson
14. Jets - Tim Tebow
13. Ind - Drew Stanton
12. Detroit - Shaun Hill
11. Min - Joe Webb
10. Buffalo - Vince Young
9. Houston - TJ Yates
8. Redskins - Rex Grossman/Cousins
7. Browns - McCoy
6. Cards - Skelton/Kolb
5. Miami - Matt Moore
5. Cowboys -Kyle Orton
4. Bears - Jason Campbell
3. Jags - Chad Henne
2. New Englad - Mallett / Hoyer
1. Titans - Hasselbeck/ Locker
It feels really dumb arguing about backup qbs, but...

I fail to see how Henne is better than Moore. Moore easily outplayed Henne last season. He also looked pretty good a few years ago in Carolina. Henne has never looked good. Honestly I was surprised that the Dolphins tried so hard to replace Moore.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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The Jags have the worst starter, but one of the best backups. I'd say Henne is better than a quarter of the starters out there.

Worst backup award probably goes to the Packers.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I don't really want a great backup qb. I want an old guy who can provide a second pair of eyes to my starter and give him intel on what he's seeing from the sidelines, but that's all I want. Or a guy who's capable of providing quality practice play for my defense to prepare with.

If my qb goes down, I rather tank the season and get the draft picks.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Honestly, I don't really want a great backup qb. I want an old guy who can provide a second pair of eyes to my starter and give him intel on what he's seeing from the sidelines, but that's all I want. Or a guy who's capable of providing quality practice play for my defense to prepare with.

If my qb goes down, I rather tank the season and get the draft picks.
Last year, Bears. Cutler went down when the Bears were rolling. It looked like Cutler could come back for the playoffs and we all figured they just had to go .500 the rest of the way to limp in.

Instead, they melted down and we still got a crappy pick.

Imagine the same thing happened to Eli and the Giants. Do you want Jason Campbell or Kellen Clemens as your backup in that situation?

I'd say good teams should get good backups and bad teams should get bad backups. edit: and by bad, I don't mean proven failures. I mean young projects with the right physical tools.

Last edited by Monomach : 05-28-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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You have to try to have a good back up QB. You can't even think about tanking. You have 51 other players on the team that prepared all year for the season and you can't give up on it because one guy goes down. Polian did this with the Colts and I guess they ended up with Andrew Luck but his ass got fired. I'm sure he thought he won the lotto and was going to rebuild with Luck though.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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That's true. I didn't think about the whole Cutler situation in Chicago.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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It feels really dumb arguing about backup qbs, but...

I fail to see how Henne is better than Moore. Moore easily outplayed Henne last season. He also looked pretty good a few years ago in Carolina. Henne has never looked good. Honestly I was surprised that the Dolphins tried so hard to replace Moore.
Henne only played what a whopping three and a half games last season? Matt Moore played well in stretches but so did Henne. Lets not forget that Henne was the starter that season as well.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Let's rank the back-up QBs:



32. St. Louis Rams Kellen Clemens
31. Green Bay Packers Graham Harrell
30. New Orleans Saints Chase Daniel
29. Carolina Panthers Derek Anderson
28. Cincinnati Bengals Bruce Gradkowski
27. Denver Broncos Caleb Hanie
26. San Diego Chargers Charlie Whitehurst
25. Philadelphia Eagles Mike Kafka
24. Oakland Raiders Matt Leinart
23. Buffalo Bills Vince Young
22. Jacksonville Jaguars Chad Henne
21. Indianapolis Colts Drew Stanton
20. New York Giants David Carr
19. Kansas City Chiefs Brady Quinn
18. Tampa Bay Buccaneers Dan Orlovsky
17. Washington Redskins Rex Grossman
16. Baltimore Ravens Tyrod Taylor
15. Pittsburgh Steelers Charlie Batch
14. Minnesota Vikings Rosenfels/Webb
13. Miami Dolphins David Garrard/Tannehill
12. Atlanta Falcons Chris Redman
11. Cleveland Browns Colt McCoy
10. Arizona Cardinals John Skelton
9. Seattle Seahawks Tarvaris Jackson/Russell Wilson
8. San Francisco 49ers Josh Johnson
7. New York Jets Tim Tebow
6. Chicago Bears Jason Campbell
5. New England Patriots Brian Hoyer
4. Houston Texans TJ Yates
3. Detroit Lions Shaun Hill
2. Dallas Cowboys Kyle Orton
1. Tennessee Titans Matt Hasselbeck/Jake Locker


This was tougher than I thought. I may have guys like Tyrod Taylor (unproven,) or Charlie Batch (reliable but old,) too high while guys like Bruce Gradkowski who has struggled when he came in, may be too low because he can manage games. I wonder if Brees or Rodgers goes down this year what would happen to GB or NO
2 1sts to AZ for Skelton!
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