Can Matt Cassel take KC far ala Alex Smith in 2011?

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

All Cassel needs to do is play well, for him, which is about 60% completions, 3500yds, 25 TDs and 12-15 INTs.

That's a dream season as of right now for Alex Smith.

Cassell has one 3500 yard season. Which was in New England's pass-heavy offense. Cassell's second best season was similar in yardage to to that of Smith's last year (conservative, power-running offense.)

Why make it out to be a "dream season" for one player, and a eh, "just has to play well" for the other?

[FUNBUNCHER]

Cassel threw for almost 3700 yards in NE. His best yardage season in KC is 3116.

I just averaged the two.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by KCStud

DT-I'll say push it's close.

Lol. No. SF is significantly better on D.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by descendency

Lol. No. SF is significantly better on D.

It says DT, not D. There is a letter after the D there.

And I'm not arguing coaching, but after RAC took over the Chiefs went 2-1, with one of those victories coming against the previously undefeated Packers and the only loss being in overtime because of two blocked FGs.

I'm not taking anything away from Harbaugh, just saying that the coaching situation has been improved SIGNIFICANTLY in KC.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by vidae

It says DT, not D. There is a letter after the D there.

And I'm not arguing coaching, but after RAC took over the Chiefs went 2-1, with one of those victories coming against the previously undefeated Packers and the only loss being in overtime because of two blocked FGs.

I'm not taking anything away from Harbaugh, just saying that the coaching situation has been improved SIGNIFICANTLY in KC.

That remains to be seen. I mean Crennel did stink up the joint with the Browns. I'm not sure I can see a improvement over Haley other then a freah set of eyes up until this point. Can he manage the game on Sundays consistently and not get out-coached? Can he identify personel and put them in a position to succeed? Can he motivate and instill a work ethic in his team as a whole? Those were some of the issues that plagued him in Cleveland. The talent on this team though is leaps and bounds better than those Browns teams he coached so that wont be a excuse going foward. We'll see how he handles the rest.

[vidae]

Not just RAC, but Daboll is a significant leap over Haley as far as playcalling goes (which should be obvious, since Haley was awful at it when he was here) and we fired our ST coordinator after the season too, and yeah, like you said, it was Cleveland. No offense to my Cleveland buddies here, but can anyone name the last coach that was successful there?

[Splat]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

That remains to be seen. I mean Crennel did stink up the joint with the Browns. I'm not sure I can see a improvement over Haley other then a freah set of eyes up until this point. Can he manage the game on Sundays consistently and not get out-coached? Can he identify personel and put them in a position to succeed? Can he motivate and instill a work ethic in his team as a whole? Those were some of the issues that plagued him in Cleveland. The talent on this team though is leaps and bounds better than those Browns teams he coached so that wont be a excuse going foward. We'll see how he handles the rest.

Who doesn't? It's the Browns.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Cassel threw for almost 3700 yards in NE. His best yardage season in KC is 3116.

I just averaged the two.

Since 2008, when Cassell began starting in New England...

Matt Cassell - Yards per Attempt - 6.623
Alex Smith --- Yards per Attempt - 6.785

So if Smith threw it anywhere near as much as Cassell, I guess it wouldn't be a "dream season" for him.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by vidae

It says DT, not D. There is a letter after the D there.

I'm well aware of what it says. SF's DTs are better.

[49ersfan_87]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I can't give either Cassel or Alex Smith an advantage over the other. They cancel each other out.

EDIT: The Raider and SD still have good talent. Ingram and Jarret Johnson are huge pickups for the Bolts, who IMO had a hiccup last year. And I still believe Peyton Manning at 75-85% makes the Broncos a threat to beat anyone they play.

It may not be the best division in football, but the AFCW has to be one of the more competitive.

Coaching is really important too, and the x-factor. I don't think Smith would do as well well under KC's offensive coaching staff. Heck, switch Harbaugh and Crennel around (and the coaching staffs) and i think KC becomes instant contenders, and the 49ers would be 10-6 at best.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by phlysac

Cassell has one 3500 yard season. Which was in New England's pass-heavy offense. Cassell's second best season was similar in yardage to to that of Smith's last year (conservative, power-running offense.)

Why make it out to be a "dream season" for one player, and a eh, "just has to play well" for the other?

Didn't Cassel have Moss that season too?

[Ness]

Originally Posted by vidae

No offense to my Cleveland buddies here, but can anyone name the last coach that was successful there?

Butch Davis, for a season.

[vidae]

Holy christ. I get that SF had a great year last year, but stop acting like Harbaugh is some coaching genius. The homer here is getting out of control.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by vidae

Holy christ. I get that SF had a great year last year, but stop acting like Harbaugh is some coaching genius. The homer here is getting out of control.

You are taking things completely the wrong way. There really isn't even a bad vibe in this thread the last couple pages. This discussion mainly has to do with the Chiefs and what Crennel plans to do going forward. No one said Harbaugh is a coaching genius. A few people implied that he did a good coach with the players last season. But the conversations gravitated towards Crennel and if he'll succeed in Kansas City where he failed in Cleveland. VAfy-ya just said he has better talent than he did with the Browns, so we shall see.

[49ersfan_87]

Originally Posted by Ness

You are taking things completely the wrong way. There really isn't even a bad vibe in this thread the last couple pages. This discussion mainly has to do with the Chiefs and what Crennel plans to do going forward. No one said Harbaugh is a coaching genius. A few people implied that he did a good coach with the players last season. But the conversations gravitated towards Crennel and if he'll succeed in Kansas City where he failed in Cleveland. VAfy-ya just said he has better talent than he did with the Browns, so we shall see.

Yep , nothing malicious going on here.

[Brothgar]

Originally Posted by Ness

You are taking things completely the wrong way. There really isn't even a bad vibe in this thread the last couple pages. This discussion mainly has to do with the Chiefs and what Crennel plans to do going forward. No one said Harbaugh is a coaching genius. A few people implied that he did a good coach with the players last season. But the conversations gravitated towards Crennel and if he'll succeed in Kansas City where he failed in Cleveland. VAfy-ya just said he has better talent than he did with the Browns, so we shall see.

I don't see how Crenell did that bad with the Browns I mean when was the last time the Browns had a 10 win season without Romeo? 1994? Yeah the Browns are not exactly a team use to winning.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by broth223

I don't see how Crenell did that bad with the Browns I mean when was the last time the Browns had a 10 win season without Romeo? 1994? Yeah the Browns are not exactly a team use to winning.

Well the Browns last made the playoffs with Butch Davis. Doesn't matter, he didn't succeed in Cleveland end of story. That doesn't mean he can't succeed with Kansas City though.

[Brothgar]

Originally Posted by Ness

Well the Browns last made the playoffs with Butch Davis. Doesn't matter, he didn't succeed in Cleveland end of story. That doesn't mean he can't succeed with Kansas City though.

My point is no one can succeed in Cleveland. I just didn't want to push the Browns fans off the bridge.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by broth223

My point is no one can succeed in Cleveland. I just didn't want to push the Browns fans off the bridge.

That is what folks said about Detroit. Cleveland was fairly decent in the 1980's. They haven't been good since then.

[KCStud]

KC was a blocked FG away from winning the division last year. A blocked freaking FG. And that was with Tyler "I don't belong in the NFL" Palko starting for a month.
You give KC Jamaal Charles last year, they make the playoffs. Hell I think if Matt Cassel didn't get injured we make the playoffs.

You guys need to realize that Romeo took over an absolutely awful Browns team. Him winning 10 games is a miracle in itself.

I think with our injured players coming back and Cassel being back in the Pats system he thrived in, with so much talent around him, will have him playing at a level similar to 2010.

Oh and reports in KC is that Baldwin looks fantastic. I fully expect him to make a big impact this year.

[Brothgar]

Originally Posted by Ness

That is what folks said about Detroit. Cleveland was fairly decent in the 1980's. They haven't been good since then.

In the Millen era they would have been right. I imagine we had a couple good coaches in the Millen era we were just devoid of any target.

[Cudders]

Jeesh, I like these Niners quite a bit, appreciate how the roster is assembled, and admire the coaching staff for their impressive performance, but reading some of the posts in this thread make it seem like this team is straight from the eighties, and it isn’t.

An honest roster comparison can be had here. Both teams have a firm commitment to running the ball as the foundation of their offense and being strong on defense and an infusion of new blood on their coaching staff. Those are their hallmarks. And both teams have similar shortcomings, too. Their quarterback situations are just average. There’s a valid thought process behind the comparison. To dismiss it based on the Niners’ wild success last season is being shortsighted. Past result isn’t the perfect indicator for future success.

At quarterback, I’m far from sold on either. And, to me, that’s the thrust of this comparison. Teams composed of comparable, above average talent elsewhere and a maligned quarterback that just needs to be solid. Because I think both, at their core, are caretaker quarterbacks. I was impressed with the maturation and perseverance that Alex Smith showed, but I still don’t think he’s something to get excited about. He’s a good caretaker with a little potential. His brand of football fits San Francisco, but he’s limited and the scheme must be manipulated around him at this point. As of right now, Matt Cassel needs to improve to get there. With the rash of injuries, Cassel struggled and handicapped the Chiefs offense. He must rediscover that solid form this season. He has proven to be a capable caretaker quarterback before. His performance is the biggest factor for the Chiefs. If he can be stable, I don’t think a return to the postseason is far-fetched at all. Right now, I would give the Niners a clear edge at the position. Let’s not forget how Alex Smith was viewed around nine-to-twelve months ago though.

Running back is close. Jamaal Charles is an electric home run-hitter coming off a torn knee and Peyton Hillis is a bruiser coming off a forgettable season in Cleveland, but I love how their skill sets complement each other and believe it’s a potent one-two punch. Frank Gore is a reliable workhorse, Kendall Hunter is a well-rounded backup, LaMichael James adds some explosive elements, and Brandon Jacobs is irrelevant. The Niners line mauls, but the Chiefs added a premier right tackle in Eric Winston to anchor that side. Overall, I like the Niners’ line more, but I prefer the Chiefs’ stable of backs.

On defense, I think the Chiefs are being slept on. It’s not like this is a slam dunk no-brainer. This unit has legitimate talent at each level. On the whole, I’d give San Francisco the edge, but most of that is based off the strength of their front seven, and Justin Smith’s absurd beastliness in particular. The Chiefs aren’t even devoid of difference-makers there though. Tamba Hali is a stud edge rusher and Derrick Johnson has emerged as one of the game’s top odd-front inside linebackers. If some of the Chiefs’ greener pieces continue to progress, this could be a real interesting debate.

Now, this thread seems to have devolved into coaching. For starters, I’m a big-time Harbaugh believer. The man knows how to maximize his football team’s potential. You could even see it at Stanford. Those Cardinal teams featured the best coached, most prepared units in the nation. I expect he will cement himself as one of the NFL’s best in no time.

Which brings me to Romeo Crennel. As a Browns fan (who felt the sting of all those hurtful and true things), the following is what I remember of Crennel. Aside from poor clock management, the thing I disliked most was how unimaginative and vanilla the defenses were under his watch. But, in all fairness to RAC, Cleveland’s talent level pales in comparison to his current crop of defenders and his approach to the defense back then was more hands-off. From what I’ve heard, he’s retaining his defensive responsibilities this time around. That sounds like a self-aware man that’s capable of learning from prior experiences and changing as needed to me, so I don’t think the Brown blemish on his résumé should be weighted too much going forward. Not to mention, I don’t see Pioli looking to undermine him on a regular basis either.

TL; DR – I think the Niners are the better team, but the comparison has definite merit. If Cassel excels in a well-defined role, the Chiefs are capable of matching or even surpassing their 2010 form.

[bigbluedefense]

The question isn't if Matt Cassel can have an Alex Smith like season, it's a matter of will he?

He's already shown he's capable of putting up a year like that. He did it in 2010 under Weis. He had 3100 yards, 27 tds and 7 ints.

Alex Smith had 3100 yards 17 tds and 5 ints. So if you think about it, Cassel not only has shown that he can perform like Smith in a similar role, he's shown he can perform better than Smith in that role.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Cudders

Jeesh, I like these Niners quite a bit, appreciate how the roster is assembled, and admire the coaching staff for their impressive performance, but reading some of the posts in this thread make it seem like this team is straight from the eighties, and it isn’t.

An honest roster comparison can be had here. Both teams have a firm commitment to running the ball as the foundation of their offense and being strong on defense and an infusion of new blood on their coaching staff. Those are their hallmarks. And both teams have similar shortcomings, too. Their quarterback situations are just average. There’s a valid thought process behind the comparison. To dismiss it based on the Niners’ wild success last season is being shortsighted. Past result isn’t the perfect indicator for future success.

At quarterback, I’m far from sold on either. And, to me, that’s the thrust of this comparison. Teams composed of comparable, above average talent elsewhere and a maligned quarterback that just needs to be solid. Because I think both, at their core, are caretaker quarterbacks. I was impressed with the maturation and perseverance that Alex Smith showed, but I still don’t think he’s something to get excited about. He’s a good caretaker with a little potential. His brand of football fits San Francisco, but he’s limited and the scheme must be manipulated around him at this point. As of right now, Matt Cassel needs to improve to get there. With the rash of injuries, Cassel struggled and handicapped the Chiefs offense. He must rediscover that solid form this season. He has proven to be a capable caretaker quarterback before. His performance is the biggest factor for the Chiefs. If he can be stable, I don’t think a return to the postseason is far-fetched at all. Right now, I would give the Niners a clear edge at the position. Let’s not forget how Alex Smith was viewed around nine-to-twelve months ago though.

Running back is close. Jamaal Charles is an electric home run-hitter coming off a torn knee and Peyton Hillis is a bruiser coming off a forgettable season in Cleveland, but I love how their skill sets complement each other and believe it’s a potent one-two punch. Frank Gore is a reliable workhorse, Kendall Hunter is a well-rounded backup, LaMichael James adds some explosive elements, and Brandon Jacobs is irrelevant. The Niners line mauls, but the Chiefs added a premier right tackle in Eric Winston to anchor that side. Overall, I like the Niners’ line more, but I prefer the Chiefs’ stable of backs.

On defense, I think the Chiefs are being slept on. It’s not like this is a slam dunk no-brainer. This unit has legitimate talent at each level. On the whole, I’d give San Francisco the edge, but most of that is based off the strength of their front seven, and Justin Smith’s absurd beastliness in particular. The Chiefs aren’t even devoid of difference-makers there though. Tamba Hali is a stud edge rusher and Derrick Johnson has emerged as one of the game’s top odd-front inside linebackers. If some of the Chiefs’ greener pieces continue to progress, this could be a real interesting debate.

Now, this thread seems to have devolved into coaching. For starters, I’m a big-time Harbaugh believer. The man knows how to maximize his football team’s potential. You could even see it at Stanford. Those Cardinal teams featured the best coached, most prepared units in the nation. I expect he will cement himself as one of the NFL’s best in no time.

Which brings me to Romeo Crennel. As a Browns fan (who felt the sting of all those hurtful and true things), the following is what I remember of Crennel. Aside from poor clock management, the thing I disliked most was how unimaginative and vanilla the defenses were under his watch. But, in all fairness to RAC, Cleveland’s talent level pales in comparison to his current crop of defenders and his approach to the defense back then was more hands-off. From what I’ve heard, he’s retaining his defensive responsibilities this time around. That sounds like a self-aware man that’s capable of learning from prior experiences and changing as needed to me, so I don’t think the Brown blemish on his résumé should be weighted too much going forward. Not to mention, I don’t see Pioli looking to undermine him on a regular basis either.

TL; DR – I think the Niners are the better team, but the comparison has definite merit. If Cassel excels in a well-defined role, the Chiefs are capable of matching or even surpassing their 2010 form.

The most thought out and well-spoken post I've read around here in a good while. I think Cassel has proven he can have a season as good as, if not better than the one Alex put together last year. They both need to prove they can accomplish those feats consistently, game after game, year after year.

[nepg]

Both QBs can be more than "caretakers", though. The key for both is playing with confidence. Alex Smith is a BAMF when he plays angry and Cassel's beast mode is triggered if he gets a nice rhythm going early in the game. It's a matter of consistency for both. I think with non-****** protection and non-****** weapons, Cassel can achieve that consistency.

Alex is different in that I think he just needs to be made the guy and have a consistent year-to-year coaching situation.

Really doesn't matter what they need at this point, though. They both have it on paper for 2012 and they both need to prove they can play at those elevated levels over the course of an entire season and beyond.