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Old 06-30-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
Stevie Johnson makes Revis his *****. His route running is so ******** when he makes his cuts Revis' brain just melts and he doesn't know how to play it. There was even multiple times last year where Fitzpatrick just completely missed Johnson on the sideline where he burned Revis for what could have been several big plays rather than the handful of shorter routes that Fitzpatrick was able to actually throw accurately enough to convert on.
No. You act like he burned Revis for 150 yards and 2 touchdowns each game. Catching some passes on Revis and being the ONLY guy in the entire league to do so doesn't mean Revis isn't a shut down CB.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:07 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Seattle EASILY has the best secondary top-to-bottom in the league.

EASILY.

Trufant as the nickel? YES.
You're factoring in the safeties into the equation as well though. If we're strictly talking CB trios, it's top 5. Overall secondary? I'd say it's close between the Seahawks, Ravens, and Giants.
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Seattle EASILY has the best secondary top-to-bottom in the league.

EASILY.

Trufant as the nickel? YES.
Easily? Nah, that's very debateable.
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Easily? Nah, that's very debateable.
If they're corners are able to repeat their performances they have a great case, it's debateable but they could cement the debate in their favor this season. That said I feel obligated to make the customary Giants secondary is often under-rated, Rolle and Phillips is just below Kam n Earl by the smallest of margins, and Webster, Thomas, Prince and all the inside guys, is a quality of corner depth that matches up with any team in the league.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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If they're corners are able to repeat their performances they have a great case, it's debateable but they could cement the debate in their favor this season. That said I feel obligated to make the customary Giants secondary is often under-rated, Rolle and Phillips is just below Kam n Earl by the smallest of margins, and Webster, Thomas, Prince and all the inside guys, is a quality of corner depth that matches up with any team in the league.
Sherman I love. Browner is a tad overated IMO. He gave up big catch after big catch to Crabs in their biggest game of the year last season. He's better than average but Im not sold on him. And Trufant hasn't completed a season healthy in how long? That knocks them down a peg, despite the duo at safety. I think Ravens have it right now. A good 1-2-3 punch at CB. Pollard is solid but unspectacular. And Ed Reed, even at his age, is still the stuff by which all other FS are measured. I think they have it right now. Giants could make a case but Im not sure how Thomas bounces back from that ACL.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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Rams are paying Finnigan 10 mill per year and he isn't even top 10 ? Top 20 hopefully ?
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by A Perfect Score View Post
My list was very, very close to this one. I've been pretty spot on on all of these so far. My general thoughts:

-Haden is too high. I had him further down the list.
-Woodson definitely too high, especially because I'd even be hesitant to call him a pure CB anymore. I had him at #10 on my list, I think Rogers and Webster are superior cover men at this point in their respective careers

Glad to see Ladarious getting the love. And yes, Revis is a shutdown CB. Anyone saying otherwise is a crazy person.

Finally, BBD is right. Jimmy Smith is a Top 5 CB in the NFL in 2 years. Mark it down.
He's not a pure CB, and that's why he's still able to play at a high level. His ability to be a hybrid defender allows the Packers to essentially run a 2-4-5 base defense. When you take him away, the whole scheme falls apart.

There aren't very many other top CBs who GB would trade Woodson for, even at his advanced age.

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Old 07-01-2012, 02:05 AM    (permalink
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Sherman I love. Browner is a tad overated IMO. He gave up big catch after big catch to Crabs in their biggest game of the year last season. He's better than average but Im not sold on him. And Trufant hasn't completed a season healthy in how long? That knocks them down a peg, despite the duo at safety. I think Ravens have it right now. A good 1-2-3 punch at CB. Pollard is solid but unspectacular. And Ed Reed, even at his age, is still the stuff by which all other FS are measured. I think they have it right now. Giants could make a case but Im not sure how Thomas bounces back from that ACL.
Eh, Earl is a better FS than Ed Reed at this point and as a centerfielder, Kenny Phillips isn't far behind those two. And since both Kam and Rolle are better than Pollard I'd actually take both Seattle and the Giants Safeties over Baltimore's Safeties.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:11 AM    (permalink
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No. You act like he burned Revis for 150 yards and 2 touchdowns each game. Catching some passes on Revis and being the ONLY guy in the entire league to do so doesn't mean Revis isn't a shut down CB.
Only Ted Ginn Jr. can do that.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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Eh, Earl is a better FS than Ed Reed at this point and as a centerfielder, Kenny Phillips isn't far behind those two. And since both Kam and Rolle are better than Pollard I'd actually take both Seattle and the Giants Safeties over Baltimore's Safeties.
Even if you say the Giants and Seattle's safties are better, the Ravens top 3 CBs are better than both. That's why I say its very debateable. Cary Williams, Webb, and Jimmy Smith are probably the most talented trio of CBs in the league. I would say the Packers are up there too but Woodson does so much for them besides play CB, its really like Shields and Williams are the starters on the outside with him at FS/CB hybrid most of the time.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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I don't really worry about our Cbs as a whole. Last year was tough with 5 CBs getting hurt, but our DL is what makes the defense. When you sack the QB, and pressure the QB and cut down on his time back there, the talent we have in the secondary is suffice. It's not like we have junk back there, we have a talented group and factor in our DL, good things happen. We don't need all stars back there. That's probably why someone like Webster gets over looked.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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But if we're talking secondaries, I have to factor in your two starters on the outside and your nickel. That's just how I view things. I can't overlook CBs just because a team has great DEs that create alot pressure so your CBs don't have to be great. Im just going by pure talent in the top three CBs and the safties. I think Buffalo's is on the cusp. They just added Gilmore who I think is a absolute beast in the making to a already solid core in McGee, McLovin, Byrd and Wilson(or is it Scott?). That secondary has alot of promise. Especially if Super Mario, Merriman, and Anderson give them the pressure from the outside they've sorely been lacking
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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But if we're talking secondaries, I have to factor in your two starters on the outside and your nickel. That's just how I view things. I can't overlook CBs just because a team has great DEs that create alot pressure so your CBs don't have to be great. Im just going by pure talent in the top three CBs and the safties. I think Buffalo's is on the cusp. They just added Gilmore who I think is a absolute beast in the making to a already solid core in McGee, McLovin, Byrd and Wilson(or is it Scott?). That secondary has alot of promise. Especially if Super Mario, Merriman, and Anderson give them the pressure from the outside they've sorely been lacking
Wilson is the starting safety. Scott plays more of a hybrid linebacker role.

McGee is tough to count on these days, health-wise, but still pretty good. McKelvin is just competing right now and has no guarantees. Second-year man Aaron Williams is actually looked at as the starter, so we're pretty young at corner. Sophomore Justin Rogers and 4th-round pick Ron Brooks should have spots locked up on the team and are in the mix for the nickel job, which will likely go to McGee as long as he is healthy. There is absolutely promise in this group, but it might be a little green on the outside. Tough to predict how this defense comes together, but I'm excited.
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Wilson is the starting safety. Scott plays more of a hybrid linebacker role.

McGee is tough to count on these days, health-wise, but still pretty good. McKelvin is just competing right now and has no guarantees. Second-year man Aaron Williams is actually looked at as the starter, so we're pretty young at corner. Sophomore Justin Rogers and 4th-round pick Ron Brooks should have spots locked up on the team and are in the mix for the nickel job, which will likely go to McGee as long as he is healthy. There is absolutely promise in this group, but it might be a little green on the outside. Tough to predict how this defense comes together, but I'm excited.
Ahhh, forgot about Aaron Williams. Knew there was another young CB that I liked from your roster. Whether its Gilmore and McGee or Gilmore and Williams or Gilmore and McKelvin doesn't really matter. They're all gonna see the field and contribute. I see a talented but young group of CBs, along with a solid safety tandem. I like the pontential there.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Even if you say the Giants and Seattle's safties are better, the Ravens top 3 CBs are better than both. That's why I say its very debateable. Cary Williams, Webb, and Jimmy Smith are probably the most talented trio of CBs in the league. I would say the Packers are up there too but Woodson does so much for them besides play CB, its really like Shields and Williams are the starters on the outside with him at FS/CB hybrid most of the time.
I don't think the Ravens corners are that much better than the giants or Seahawks corners...yet. If Webb keeps improving and Jimmy Smith keeps his head on straight they can be, especially since C-Web won't play at a top level forever, but for now I think the corners are closer than the safeties.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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How is Revis not a shut-down corner? you do know Deion Sanders allowed 100 yard games once in awhile too right?
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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To join in the homers on the CB trios, Atlanta's secondary has gone from one of the most average to one of the better ones with the addition of Asante Samuel. Now we got Brent Grimes and Asante Samuel with Dunta Robinson holding down the nickel spot. William Moore is also quietly one of the better young safeties in the game, just needs to stay healthy.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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The Packers secondary really wasn't that bad last year but when the 'pass rush' gives you 6 seconds to cover then it gets a little tough.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Only Ted Ginn Jr. can do that.
to be fair, ted ginn jr is probably the most athletically gifted player to ever grace a football field

that was initially supposed to be a troll, but he's actually pretty damn athletic
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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-Woodson definitely too high, especially because I'd even be hesitant to call him a pure CB anymore. I had him at #10 on my list, I think Rogers and Webster are superior cover men at this point in their respective careers
If this was a list of the top cover men in the NFL you would have a point. But as a list of top CBs 7th is the lowest he should be. He's lost a step in coverage, but he's still the best defensive playmaker in the NFL.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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If this was a list of the top cover men in the NFL you would have a point. But as a list of top CBs 7th is the lowest he should be. He's lost a step in coverage, but he's still the best defensive playmaker in the NFL.
He's not really a CB anymore. He's a glorified safety/nickel blitzer/linebacker now.

I agree that he's still a great playmaker, but he's not really a cornerback anymore. And when he does line up there, he's pretty underwhelming.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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The Rams secondary is going to be one of the best very soon. Check out this CB depth

Finnagan
Fletcher - very good CB who may get beat out by Jenkins
Murphy
rookie Jenoris Jenkins (best CB in the draft by many experts)
rookie Trumaine Johnson (projected to be a 2nd rounder)
Gordy
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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The Rams secondary is going to be one of the best very soon. Check out this CB depth

Finnagan
Fletcher - very good CB who may get beat out by Jenkins
Murphy
rookie Jenoris Jenkins (best CB in the draft by many experts)
rookie Trumaine Johnson (projected to be a 2nd rounder)
Gordy
Alot of speculation but there is certainly some young talent there.
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