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Old 06-30-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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Shocking that Paterno was involved in the coverup. I don't know why people were even defending him the whole time when everyone knew he had the most power at that university. No way to spin this now.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe anyone is surprised he was involved. It's really not that hard to see. He was clearly the most influential person on campus. And by his own grand jury testimony he said he knew something "of a sexual nature" was happening.

The only people left denying his involvement are Penn State fans with their head in the ground. As someone that grew up in Pennsylvania, and really considered attending PSU, I can say I had a great deal of respect for Paterno before this. I'm not some biased hater, but I simply don't understand how anyone could even attempt to defend him at this point.

If I'm Penn State I take down the statue, remove his name from everything, and start looking for a new hero. This truly is that terrible of an offense in my mind.

Sandusky going to jail should not be the end of this. He's the predator, but there are plenty more people who need to be held accountable for their actions in this case.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Well, that's interesting.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Harrisburg news reporting that legal experts saying PSU could receive death penalty for this. Article basically says it would be an institutional control issue because Paterno had more power than the AD, his supervisor.

That's too far for me. Why punish the program just get rid of anyone that had anything to do with it and move forward. This hurts the future students and people that had nothing to do with it. Get the guys responsible.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Harrisburg news reporting that legal experts saying PSU could receive death penalty for this. Article basically says it would be an institutional control issue because Paterno had more power than the AD, his supervisor.

That's too far for me. Why punish the program just get rid of anyone that had anything to do with it and move forward. This hurts the future students and people that had nothing to do with it. Get the guys responsible.
I'm not endorsing a "Death Penalty" for the program, by any means, but I will say this: as somebody who attended a MAC bottom-feeder, I really get annoyed by the "this hurts the future students" argument; unless we're speaking in terms of the financial impact (in which case I still don't have much sympathy). My college experience wasn't even slightly impacted by the fact that my college football team couldn't find it's ass with both hands.

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Old 06-30-2012, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe anyone is surprised he was involved.
My shock, honestly, is that there was a cover-up period. As an educator, I can't even think of what lengths I would go to to see someone who I knew had done that to a student be brought to justice. From all I have read, the number of people who turned a blind-eye is not only sickening, but exists on such a level I can only logically ask "Did they really know?" I say that as someone who knows it is employment suicide to harbor that kind of info with out telling people until something is done, to include going to that person - face to face.
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
In related news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/ma...al-snitch.html

"A snitch's dilemma".

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My shock, honestly, is that there was a cover-up period. As an educator, I can't even think of what lengths I would go to to see someone who I knew had done that to a student be brought to justice. From all I have read, the number of people who turned a blind-eye is not only sickening, but exists on such a level I can only logically ask "Did they really know?" I say that as someone who knows it is employment suicide to harbor that kind of info with out telling people until something is done, to include going to that person - face to face.
In no way am I trying to justify it, but I do think the other side of the coins is that it is career suicide in football (or team sports in general) to break ranks and go public with anything negative.

An assistant coach came forward about how his former coach tried to sweep an investigation under the rug by blaming a dead guy (18 year old freshman) for everything. He was fired and since has had 0 success even getting people to return his calls.

The coach was also fired, for lying and slandering the deceased player. (this was some small school basketball program... I forget which)

Obviously, this is deplorable. I'm not saying there is a justification for it, but you have some young people (like McQueary) who would basically have to sacrifice their careers. That's a tough spot to be in.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:51 AM    (permalink
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I'm not endorsing a "Death Penalty" for the program, by any means, but I will say this: as somebody who attended a MAC bottom-feeder, I really get annoyed by the "this hurts the future students" argument; unless we're speaking in terms of the financial impact (in which case I still don't have much sympathy). My college experience wasn't even slightly impacted by the fact that my college football team couldn't find it's ass with both hands.
Football doesn't have to be a part of any college experience for it to be a good one, but I can definitely say OSU football was a fun portion of mine.

I just don't see any reason to punish a program for things that didn't give a competitive advantage. Just punish those responsible.

The program shouldnt get the death penalty, sandusky should.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:54 AM    (permalink
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My shock, honestly, is that there was a cover-up period. As an educator, I can't even think of what lengths I would go to to see someone who I knew had done that to a student be brought to justice. From all I have read, the number of people who turned a blind-eye is not only sickening, but exists on such a level I can only logically ask "Did they really know?" I say that as someone who knows it is employment suicide to harbor that kind of info with out telling people until something is done, to include going to that person - face to face.
It's certainly employment suicide to get caught covering something like this up. But it's also pretty terrible for your image to have something like this come out. Of course it would have only probably been one year of negative headlines and reports until the fit thing is done and Sandusky would have gone to jail, but at the time I can understand how people with this much power think they really could keep it covered up.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
In related news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/ma...al-snitch.html

"A snitch's dilemma".



In no way am I trying to justify it, but I do think the other side of the coins is that it is career suicide in football (or team sports in general) to break ranks and go public with anything negative.

An assistant coach came forward about how his former coach tried to sweep an investigation under the rug by blaming a dead guy (18 year old freshman) for everything. He was fired and since has had 0 success even getting people to return his calls.

The coach was also fired, for lying and slandering the deceased player. (this was some small school basketball program... I forget which)

Obviously, this is deplorable. I'm not saying there is a justification for it, but you have some young people (like McQueary) who would basically have to sacrifice their careers. That's a tough spot to be in.
I completely understand McQueary's position. He tried to do something, given not enou, by telling his bosses. But once they decided to do nothing about it, I can understand how he would be scared to go against the company line.

Again, not that it's ok or even close to what I would have done, but I can definitely see the string of logic that led him to this.
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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If there's anything that I learned from this whole mess it's don't rush to judgement. These were emails that were selectively leaked by someone to create a story. By no means is this the whole story. I will reserve any judgement until all facts are known, and I hope you guys will do the same.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Geez Santonio you're a joke like the BWI Rivals board at this point. Get over yourselves your hero was a douche.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Geez Santonio you're a joke like the BWI Rivals board at this point. Get over yourselves your hero was a douche.
Thanks man that's really kind of you to say. Real classy
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Yeah it is. Just as classy as your school covering up a human being that should rot in hell. Keep making excuses.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Thanks man that's really kind of you to say. Real classy
He may just be having trouble expressing himself regarding the enabling behavior you are exhibiting.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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He may just be having trouble expressing himself regarding the enabling behavior you are exhibiting.
What about my behavior is enabling?
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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If there's anything that I learned from this whole mess it's don't rush to judgement. These were emails that were selectively leaked by someone to create a story. By no means is this the whole story. I will reserve any judgement until all facts are known, and I hope you guys will do the same.
Yes, because sometimes you rush to assume that a guy is a great guy and could have done no wrong, only to find out that he was involved in a cover-up of horrific crimes.

Oh wait, I guess that's not what you were going for...

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Old 07-01-2012, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Yeah it is. Just as classy as your school covering up a human being that should rot in hell. Keep making excuses.
Please explain to me what exactly from those e-mails is hard evidence of a cover up? The KEY to this whole thing is what McQueary told them. He has changed his story multiple time regarding what he saw that night in the PSU locker room. The kid who he walked in on still denies anything happened, but clearly that means nothing. Everyone takes McQueary's word for gospel when he clearly doesn't know even know what he saw. Instead of questioning McQueary and his story, everyone piles on a man who is now dead and cannot defend himself.

After speaking with Paterno, Curley decides that he should talk to Sandusky first about what information was reported to them. Do you know what that tells me? That Paterno thought it was right to bring this information to the person being accused. Maybe it's just me, but they does NOT tell me that he wanted to cover it up. Maybe it was for his own selfish reasons, because as dependency showed, falsely reporting something like this would obviously make them look bad (not nearly as bad as they do now for not reporting it to police), but them waiting to talk to Sandusky first does not equate to a cover up. The key piece of information missing is the conversation between Paterno and Curley.

Hindsight is 20/20. Sure, now that Sandusky is in prison after being found guilty we can sit here and say that they knew. At the time that this event happened, they weren't aware of the monster that Sandusky turned out to be. It's easy to sit here and say that they knew for sure that he was a child molester now after he has been convicted, but in 2001 they didn't know and how bad would it look of they accused this man of something like this and he was innocent? The '98 investigation was dropped. Sure they knew about it, but they found NOTHING on Sandusky, hence why it was dropped. Given the information they had at the time they decided to ban him from bringing children onto school property, assuming that the man was not a molester.

If McQueary really reported to them that he had seen a child getting raped THEY WOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT. If McQueary had seen rape he would/should have called the police. But no, let's believe the guy who has changed his story multiple times and had his testimony in the Sandusky case regarding what he saw discredited by Dr. Dranov (the person who he talked to along with his father prior to talking to Pateno) and instead blame the dead guy that gets the most readers. Again, something important I brought up earlier, if they knew for certain that Sandusky was a child molester, what did any of these men gain by covering it up?

Remember, it wasn't Curley, Schultz or Paterno's decision on what action to take. It was Graham Spanier who made the final call. I'm not saying Paterno is god and that he is the greatest person to ever live and that he doesn't deserve SOME of the blame. He should have done more, as I have said numerous times. But, do you honestly believe every article you read on this subject?

These men clearly made a poor decision, but it does not mean that they did it with bad intentions like many want to believe. Like I said earlier, hindsight is 20/20. I'm not making excuses. I'm trying to put together a LOGICAL series of events that lead this decision. I'm sorry but I just don't believe that all 4 of these men are that evil.
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Yes, because sometimes you rush to assume that a guy is a great guy and could have done no wrong, only to find out that he was involved in a cover-up of horrific crimes.

Oh wait, I guess that's not what you were going for...
I never said he did no wrong. I've said repeatedly that he should have done more.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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let it go. they covered it all up or at the very best they decided not to dig any further into terrible allegations because they were afraid that it would make them look bad. there were multiple allegations and times where Joe Pa would have known. McQ and the other kid that the officer taped the Sandusky apology incidents were both things that he would have known about.

what it came down to was: looking out for the kid's best interests vs not wanting to tarnish their program. the program's interests won. who gives a **** about Paterno now. All the money that he donated might as well have went to victim's families since he was part of a system that allowed child rape to continue for years.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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I'm really disgusted by these powerful people that would deal with a rapist of children so casually. Any sane human would know that the right thing to do would be to ensure that this man was removed from society and dealt with accordingly.

I have to assume that these men were sane, all or some. I can't believe that all of them were crazy and thought that Jerry was kinda harmless and should be scolded and put into timeout for a few weeks.

So what was their motivation to cover for this monster? They definitely covered for him in 2001 and likely did in 1998.

A) To keep the idealistic image of the great experiment alive?
B) the Second mile was a slush fund for the psu football program?
C) Sandusky had some other sort of dirt on all or some of them?

I'm going to guess all of the above.
Every major college program has its dirty underbelly of booster money getting funneled to players. Every single one. I'm guessing that the Second Mile was PSUs primary method for that. If enough eyes were poking around Sandusky and the second mile, then they may have been discovered.

This isn't a unique idea as its been all over the web since the scandal broke, but it really makes sense to me. Why would sane responsible adults otherwise cover up such a heinous monster? It had to be for a very big reason.

There is no doubt that the people that made these decisions were morally compromised in a very extreme way. There had to be huge reasons, reasons most likely even bigger than their jobs or careers, to cover up for Sandusky.

Motivations are key when looking at irrational behavior, especially by a group of high powered execs. Any other theories are welcome, but program destruction is the only thing that comes to mind to motivate a group like this to cover for Sandusky.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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I don't need these emails to think there is damning evidence against Paterno. His own grand jury testimony, his own words under oath, say that he knew there was something of a sexual nature going on.

Thats enough for me. When you know something of sexual nature is going on you cant the do enough until its over. Call the police, call CNN, call the FBI, call every mother that has ever sent her child to a camp of his, put up signs on campus, make a website.

There were a million different things anyone that knew could have done something about it. I don't want to hear they all told their boss and it's their bosses fault. Anyone that knew could have done absolutely anything about it.

Therefore, I consider anyone that knew and didn't choose to do one of those things to be part of the coverup. And since we know Paterno has the most powerful man around Penn State, he certainly could have steered this thing in any direction, and the emails indicate he steered it to a cover up.

Another pretty good indicator that there's good evidence against Paterno is the fact that EVERYONE except Penn State fans has accepted that Paterno was very heavily involved.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Records Suggest Penn State Officials Knew Sexual Nature of Sandusky Encounter
AP ImagesGary Schultz (left), Penn State's former senior vice president of finance and business, and Tim Curley, the athletic director on administrative leave, face charges of lying to a grand jury and failing to report allegations of child sexual abuse. Both have maintained their innocence.Enlarge Image
By Brad Wolverton
University Park, Pa.
Top Pennsylvania State University officials held a three-hour meeting to discuss Jerry Sandusky in 2001 over concerns about the former coach's behavior with a boy in the football showers. A law-firm billing record from that conversation describes a "report of suspected child abuse," according to a person with knowledge of an independent investigation into the matter.

The new information adds to a detailed report by CNN and suggests that several top Penn State administrators, despite their claims otherwise, knew about the sexual nature of the accusation against Mr. Sandusky. Their failure to report it to child-welfare agencies, which is required by Pennsylvania law, could lead to further charges in the case.

New evidence also suggests that Joe Paterno, the head football coach, may have played a role in the university's failure to notify outside authorities. Previously, he said that he had done his job by simply reporting concerns about Sandusky's behavior up the line.

Mr. Sandusky was charged with sexually abusing four more boys after the 2001 incident in Penn State's showers. Late last month, he was convicted of abusing 10 boys over 15 years.

According to e-mails read to CNN, Graham Spanier, Penn State's former president, and two other university officials—Gary Schultz, the former senior vice president of finance and business, and Tim Curley, the athletic director on administrative leave—agreed to take a "humane" approach in dealing with Mr. Sandusky following his alleged sexual encounter with a boy.

Instead of reporting the incident to outside investigators, administrators reportedly planned to ask Mr. Sandusky to seek counseling and said they would tell officials at the Second Mile, the charity where he met many of the children he would later abuse, about their concerns.

According to three people with knowledge of the investigation, including one person The Chronicle spoke to, Mr. Spanier acknowledged in an e-mail that Penn State could be in a weak position for not reporting the allegations against Mr. Sandusky.

"The only downside for us is if the message [to Sandusky] isn't 'heard' and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it," Mr. Spanier reportedly wrote in an e-mail to Mr. Schultz and Mr. Curley in late February 2001.

Mr. Schultz and Mr. Curley face charges of lying to a grand jury and failing to report allegations of child sexual abuse. A hearing in their case is scheduled for July 11. Both men have denied knowing about the sexual nature of the 2001 incident involving Mr. Sandusky, saying they believed it to be nothing more than "horsing around."

According to CNN, Mr. Schultz and Mr. Curley had initially drawn up plans that included notifying the Pennsylvania Department of Welfare about their concerns with the former assistant coach.

In an e-mail dated February 26, 2001, Mr. Schultz, who oversaw the campus police department at the time, wrote to Mr. Curley, outlining a three-part plan: "talk with the subject asap regarding the future appropriate use of the University facility,"... "contacting the chair of the charitable organization," and "contacting the Department of Welfare," according to a person with knowledge of the investigation.

The next day, Mr. Curley allegedly wrote to Mr. Spanier, saying he had spoken with Mr. Paterno and no longer wanted to contact the child-welfare office.

"After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps," Mr. Curley wrote. "I am having trouble with going to everyone, but the person involved."

According to CNN, Mr. Curley then wrote to Mr. Spanier, saying he wanted to meet with Mr. Sandusky privately, tell him there's a problem, and that "we want to assist the individual to get professional help."

In the same e-mail, according to CNN, Mr. Curley also suggested that if Mr. Sandusky "is cooperative," Penn State "would work with him" to tell Second Mile. If not, Mr. Curley wrote, the university would inform both Second Mile and outside authorities.

The purported e-mails were discovered during an investigation by Louis J. Freeh, the former FBI director whose consulting company was hired last November by Penn State's Board of Trustees to examine the university's role in the scandal. Mr. Freeh's company is scheduled to release a report sometime in the coming weeks detailing who knew what about the former coach and why no one acted sooner to stop him.

Defending the Program
Those e-mails and other records suggest a disturbing pattern of how the university dealt with high-profile problems in football.

Mr. Paterno was often at the center of conversations related to disciplinary issues in the program, even when it wasn't his place to handle such problems. And according to documents obtained by The Chronicle, administrators at the highest levels made sure he got his way.

Letters and e-mails that one former top Penn State administrator provided to Mr. Freeh's investigators show that Mr. Spanier and Wendell V. Courtney, the university's general counsel, repeatedly intervened on Coach Paterno's behalf in an apparent attempt to quash problems.

One such incident happened in 2007, when six football players were charged with forcing their way into an off-campus apartment and beating up several fellow students. After the university received a police search warrant requesting any documents related to the case, Mr. Courtney removed four letters and memos from a file, claiming the information violated the players' rights to privacy.


In one letter, Philip J. Burlingame, the associate vice president for student affairs, had written to Shirley M. Kitchen, a state senator apparently concerned about the university's response to the incident. Mr. Burlingame wrote that the university viewed the alleged assault "as a very serious criminal incident," saying "we fully intend to do all we can to identify and properly adjudicate all Penn State students who were involved as perpetrators of these crimes." The letter did not name any of the players charged in the attacks or any of the students involved; it did, however, name one of their parents.

In another letter related to the case, Joe Puzycki, Penn State's assistant vice president for student affairs, described how Coach Paterno had a text message sent out to every football player, saying that if any of them went into the student-affairs office to respond to the university's code of conduct complaint in the matter, they would be "thrown off the team." After Mr. Puzycki asked for a copy of that text message, a student said he could not provide it. According to the student, Coach Paterno reportedly said, "if you had a problem with that, you could call him directly."

Mr. Spanier also became involved in the university’s disciplinary process in that case, helping schedule player interviews and organizing a meeting at his home with Mr. Paterno, Mr. Curley, Mr. Courtney, and the then-vice president of student affairs, Vicky Triponey. In a letter that Ms. Triponey wrote to Mr. Spanier ahead of that meeting, she expressed concerns that she was being pressured to alter discipline decisions involving football players.

"I am being forced into a meeting that seriously jeopardizes my ability to be an impartial appeal officer in our student discipline system and the Division of Student Affairs is being pressured to make decisions that go beyond the boundaries and jeopardize the integrity of our student discipline process," she wrote.

In an e-mail to Mr. Spanier and Mr. Curley, Mr. Courtney, the lawyer, said he had informed Ms. Triponey about how she should act in the meeting with Mr. Paterno, whose initials were JVP.

"I did note the possibility that JVP could try to negotiate at some level," he wrote, "and she should listen and try to keep comments to a bare minimum."

A Paterno Response
It is unclear how much Mr. Paterno may have intervened in the 2001 Sandusky investigation.

Mr. Paterno died of lung cancer in January. A family spokesman, Dan McGinn, told The New York Times on Sunday that there was no evidence that Mr. Paterno interfered with any investigation and that the e-mails among the university's top administrators in the Sandusky matter could be interpreted various ways.

"If Joe Paterno wanted to interfere, why did he report the incident immediately" to university officials? Mr. McGinn told the Times, adding that he was disturbed by what he called the "selective leaking" of the e-mails. "You are only seeing a piece of the puzzle."

In a statement, Wick Sollers, a lawyer for the Paterno family, said: "To be clear, the e-mails in question did not originate with Joe Paterno or go to him, as he never personally utilized e-mail.

"From the beginning, Joe Paterno warned against a rush to judgment in this case. Coach Paterno testified truthfully, to the best of his recollection, in the one brief appearance he made before the grand jury. As he testified, when informed of an incident involving Jerry Sandusky in 2001, Coach Paterno followed university procedures and promptly and fully informed his superiors. He believed the matter would be thoroughly and professionally investigated."
http://chronicle.com/article/Records...stions/132725/
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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This thing is going to get ugly. Especially as these scumbags try to save their skins by plea bargaining in exchange for more details.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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In related news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/ma...al-snitch.html

"A snitch's dilemma".



In no way am I trying to justify it, but I do think the other side of the coins is that it is career suicide in football (or team sports in general) to break ranks and go public with anything negative.

An assistant coach came forward about how his former coach tried to sweep an investigation under the rug by blaming a dead guy (18 year old freshman) for everything. He was fired and since has had 0 success even getting people to return his calls.

The coach was also fired, for lying and slandering the deceased player. (this was some small school basketball program... I forget which)

Obviously, this is deplorable. I'm not saying there is a justification for it, but you have some young people (like McQueary) who would basically have to sacrifice their careers. That's a tough spot to be in.
I wouldn't say Baylor is a small school program.
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