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Old 07-07-2012, 02:35 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Maclin and Desean may not be 'true' #1s, but they're good enough to take the Eagles deep into the playoffs.
If you cover Maclin one-on-one with your number two corner, Maclin eventually is going to burn you.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Maclin and Desean may not be 'true' #1s, but they're good enough to take the Eagles deep into the playoffs.
If you cover Maclin one-on-one with your number two corner, Maclin eventually is going to burn you.
It's hard to quantify what makes a #1 WR or #1 CB etc, however as for the above arguement, if any team not called the Jets puts their #1 CB on Calvin Johnson he is going to burn you. Being able to beat a CB doesn't make you a "#1 WR". The NFL is tailored to give the offense the advantage.

What most people mean by #1 WR is a guy who is your go-to WR when things get tough. If Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald are double covered in the end zone and your down 6 with 10 seconds to go you can pretty much bet the ball is still going their way. You don't get that impression while watching either D-Jax or Maclin. Both are very good WRs who produce and can do damage in different ways, but as was mentioned so can Wes Welker or Percy Harvin and they for sure aren't #1 WRs.
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Cobi Hamilon has a lot of size but and ability but I want to see how he does this season with a lot more responsibility on him.

The Tennessee guys have stupid talent. Rodgers is a freak with his size/speed combo and I bet Hunter winds up a pro bowl receiver. Rodgers is a little raw and a head case as already mentioned, but his upside is through the roof.

Keenan Allen strikes me as a can't miss type of prospect who could carry a team even without spectacular QB play a la Fitz or Calvin before Stafford. I don't think Woods is that type of player but not because he isn't a great prospect, its more that he is a precision type player who could be deadly if he winds up on the right team with a QB he can grow and get comfortable with.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to quantify what makes a #1 WR or #1 CB etc, however as for the above arguement, if any team not called the Jets puts their #1 CB on Calvin Johnson he is going to burn you. Being able to beat a CB doesn't make you a "#1 WR". The NFL is tailored to give the offense the advantage.

What most people mean by #1 WR is a guy who is your go-to WR when things get tough. If Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald are double covered in the end zone and your down 6 with 10 seconds to go you can pretty much bet the ball is still going their way. You don't get that impression while watching either D-Jax or Maclin. Both are very good WRs who produce and can do damage in different ways, but as was mentioned so can Wes Welker or Percy Harvin and they for sure aren't #1 WRs.
Thank you, this was my exact point.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:57 AM    (permalink
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Idk where you guys are comin up with this "bust potential" with Woods. He seems pretty damn safe to me. Ive gotten to watch him a ton over his first 2 years and the guy is as consistent as they come. People forget just how explosive he was his freshman year. Lee stole some of the spotlight last year with his big play ability but Woods is a explosive threat both deep and is a technician underneath, great routes. Is he smaller? Yes, but the guy is a safe bet to be a good receiver for a long time.

Hes much more explosive than past # 1's coming out of SC (Jarrett, Williams, etc.) doesnt fit that mold at all, those guys were just flat out slow and out muscled their opponents.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:36 AM    (permalink
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I The position is also over-valued in the draft now and teams know they need WRs so they'll reach. The fact that a team traded up for Justin Blackmon, a guy who I've felt will never be a legit #1, to make him their #1 just proves my point.
I'm not really sure how any of this makes your point. Blackmon is perceived by many to be a #1 WR in the future, in fact a large large crowd. Just because you don't think he will be, doesn't make their trade up worse because you think he's a #2.


It would be different if he was widely viewed as a complimentary WR but he wasn't. Blackmon wasn't a reach either, so not sure what your point was.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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What I don't get about the whole Justin Blackmon isn't a #1 debate is the biggest knocks on him are he's not tall and he's not a pure deep threat.

You know who also isn't tall and not a pure deep threat? Hakeem Nicks. He turned out pretty good.

Blackmon can ball. You don't have to be 6 4" and run a 4.35 to be a #1 WR.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I'm not really sure how any of this makes your point. Blackmon is perceived by many to be a #1 WR in the future, in fact a large large crowd. Just because you don't think he will be, doesn't make their trade up worse because you think he's a #2.


It would be different if he was widely viewed as a complimentary WR but he wasn't. Blackmon wasn't a reach either, so not sure what your point was.
I agree with OSU that Blackmon was overrated/overdrafted/had no business in the top 5 but I agree with you that him going that him going top 5 isn't the best argument for WR's being overdrafted. The argument I'd make is the same one used against RB's - WR is arguably the deepest position in the league because you can find quality and productive WR's outside of the first round every year. Somehow this is constantly being held against RB's but that notion hasn't made it's way to WR's for whatever reason even though it applies just as much if not more.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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What I don't get about the whole Justin Blackmon isn't a #1 debate is the biggest knocks on him are he's not tall and he's not a pure deep threat.

You know who also isn't tall and not a pure deep threat? Hakeem Nicks. He turned out pretty good.

Blackmon can ball. You don't have to be 6 4" and run a 4.35 to be a #1 WR.
Ugh if there was a way to inflict physical pain via the internet, I'd be awfully tempted to do it to you. This is probably the worst argument known to the NFL draft.

You know who also ran a 4.6? Jerry Rice. He turned out pretty good. You don't have to run a 4.3 to be a great WR.
You know who also isn't tall? Drew Brees. He turned out pretty good. You don't have to be 6'4 to be a franchise QB.

....etc, etc
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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What I don't get about the whole Justin Blackmon isn't a #1 debate is the biggest knocks on him are he's not tall and he's not a pure deep threat.

You know who also isn't tall and not a pure deep threat? Hakeem Nicks. He turned out pretty good.

Blackmon can ball. You don't have to be 6 4" and run a 4.35 to be a #1 WR.

Nicks can play the X. Blackmon can't.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Nicks can play the X. Blackmon can't.
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Ugh if there was a way to inflict physical pain via the internet, I'd be awfully tempted to do it to you. This is probably the worst argument known to the NFL draft.

You know who also ran a 4.6? Jerry Rice. He turned out pretty good. You don't have to run a 4.3 to be a great WR.
You know who also isn't tall? Drew Brees. He turned out pretty good. You don't have to be 6'4 to be a franchise QB.

....etc, etc
I cite Hakeem Nicks bc Blackmon's game is very similar to Nicks. It's not like I just picked some random guy and said hey look at him, he's small and good.

Both Nicks and Blackmon have some Irvin in them. Nicks is slightly bigger and has more core strength, but I don't see why Blackmon can't replicate his success.

I know Nicks went 28 overall, while Blackmon went top 5, but I'm sure if we had a do over in that draft, Nicks would be a top 10 pick.

Blackmon is going to be a great player once Jacksonville gets rid of Blaine Gabbert. If he can keep his head on straight of course.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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You watch Blackmon play and he just doesnt look like a game-changing WR. he doesn't look like he will ever have this huge stand-out year, or that he'll be a guy who even in double coverage is your go-to guy cause he's your guy. He just looks like an average starting WR who will lead his team in receiving stats simply because he's not as bad as the other WRs on his team. I just don't value him as a top 5 pick. I still think Michael Floyd is a better WR than him and can be a legit #1 while Blackmon never will be.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to quantify what makes a #1 WR or #1 CB etc, however as for the above arguement, if any team not called the Jets puts their #1 CB on Calvin Johnson he is going to burn you. Being able to beat a CB doesn't make you a "#1 WR". The NFL is tailored to give the offense the advantage.

What most people mean by #1 WR is a guy who is your go-to WR when things get tough. If Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald are double covered in the end zone and your down 6 with 10 seconds to go you can pretty much bet the ball is still going their way. You don't get that impression while watching either D-Jax or Maclin. Both are very good WRs who produce and can do damage in different ways, but as was mentioned so can Wes Welker or Percy Harvin and they for sure aren't #1 WRs.
Yes! You get it.

A true number 1 WR is open even if he's double covered. I think there are only 3-4 true number 1 type guys in the league right now; Fitz, Megatron, Andre Johnson, and I think AJ Green could go in that group as well. There are guys like Brandon Marshall, and Steve Johnson (among others) that aren't far behind, though.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:53 AM    (permalink
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Yes! You get it.

A true number 1 WR is open even if he's double covered. I think there are only 3-4 true number 1 type guys in the league right now; Fitz, Megatron, Andre Johnson, and I think AJ Green could go in that group as well. There are guys like Brandon Marshall, and Steve Johnson (among others) that aren't far behind, though.
LOL. since when did these guys face double coverage and still reel the ball in? just cause another DB gets to the WR right when he catches it doesn't mean there was double coverage on him.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:33 AM    (permalink
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I cite Hakeem Nicks bc Blackmon's game is very similar to Nicks. It's not like I just picked some random guy and said hey look at him, he's small and good.

Both Nicks and Blackmon have some Irvin in them. Nicks is slightly bigger and has more core strength, but I don't see why Blackmon can't replicate his success.

I know Nicks went 28 overall, while Blackmon went top 5, but I'm sure if we had a do over in that draft, Nicks would be a top 10 pick.

Blackmon is going to be a great player once Jacksonville gets rid of Blaine Gabbert. If he can keep his head on straight of course.
If I was to draft an offensive player in the top 5 I would want him to be a corner stone of my offense.

Larry Fitzgerald is the Cardinals offense.
The Lions have the fortune of having two guys in Stafford and Calvin Johnson.
Trent Richardson is expected to be the Browns offense.
AJ Green was a major reason for the Bengals offensive turnaround last year.

Andre Johnson and Houston are an anomaly since Arian Foster is a huge part of that offense, but a large reason for that is his fit in Kubiak's run scheme.

Even if Blackmon reaches his ceiling I don't envision him being the focal point of an offensive system. He can be a tremendous part of a well schemed offense, similar to Greg Jennings in Green Bay, however I don't think he will ever be the guy that defensive coordinators worry about the most.

I personally had Blackmon ranked in the early to mid teens this year. At that stage in the draft you can get pieces to build your offense. In the top 5 I would definitely prefer a guy who will be your offense and not just a piece of it.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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LOL. since when did these guys face double coverage and still reel the ball in? just cause another DB gets to the WR right when he catches it doesn't mean there was double coverage on him.
AJ Green began facing a lot of double coverage toward the end of last season, and is clearly on the verge of being among the very best recievers in the game.

Marshall and Stevie J don't face a lot of double teams, thus making them second tier guys. No knock on them as both are very good ball players.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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AJ Green began facing a lot of double coverage toward the end of last season, and is clearly on the verge of being among the very best recievers in the game.

Marshall and Stevie J don't face a lot of double teams, thus making them second tier guys. No knock on them as both are very good ball players.
Yeah I thought about leaving Green out, but he didn't do much when he was in double coverage.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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If I was to draft an offensive player in the top 5 I would want him to be a corner stone of my offense.

Larry Fitzgerald is the Cardinals offense.
The Lions have the fortune of having two guys in Stafford and Calvin Johnson.
Trent Richardson is expected to be the Browns offense.
AJ Green was a major reason for the Bengals offensive turnaround last year.

Andre Johnson and Houston are an anomaly since Arian Foster is a huge part of that offense, but a large reason for that is his fit in Kubiak's run scheme.

Even if Blackmon reaches his ceiling I don't envision him being the focal point of an offensive system. He can be a tremendous part of a well schemed offense, similar to Greg Jennings in Green Bay, however I don't think he will ever be the guy that defensive coordinators worry about the most.

I personally had Blackmon ranked in the early to mid teens this year. At that stage in the draft you can get pieces to build your offense. In the top 5 I would definitely prefer a guy who will be your offense and not just a piece of it.
The Bengals had a worse passing offense last year. Andy Dalton threw for less yards per game than Palmer did the previous year. A.J. Green averaged the same yards per game (about 70) as Terrell Owens did and caught 2 less TD's.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:13 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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The Bengals had a worse passing offense last year. Andy Dalton threw for less yards per game than Palmer did the previous year. A.J. Green averaged the same yards per game (about 70) as Terrell Owens did and caught 2 less TD's.
Not really as an entire offense. Points and yards its pretty much a wash as an entire offense but they turned the ball over less. When you take everything into account; points, yards, 3rd down efficiency, sacks allowed, INTs, fumbles, red zone efficiency etc the Bengals were a better offensive team in 2011.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
dmoneyrockin
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The Bengals had a worse passing offense last year. Andy Dalton threw for less yards per game than Palmer did the previous year. A.J. Green averaged the same yards per game (about 70) as Terrell Owens did and caught 2 less TD's.
Green and Dalton were also rookies with no offseason program to build off of. Considering that, the numbers were pretty impressive. I expect both of these guys to have big time year coming up.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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I think when all is said and done, Allen and Hunter will battle out for the top position. I really like both players. Allen is tremendous after the catch and pretty physical. Hunter goes up for the ball and wins the battle with the ball in the air. I've seen him go up and over two corners to get the ball.

I'm not sure if either are elite just yet. Allen is closer, but I don't think he has elite speed. On tape it looks like 4.45. Hunter has had some injuries concerns and also isn't a burner.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out and I'm sure others will emerge and a few will fall off along the way.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Keenan Allen was pretty much Cal's whole offense last year.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Hunter is definitely a burner. Legit 4.4 speed.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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USC/Pac12 is having their media day today. Lane Kiffin said Robert Woods was at 75% pretty much all season. Hopefully Woods can show what he can do when he's healthy this season. From what I've read, Woods will probably be 90% going into camp in August.

Not sure if he's a top 5 type WR prospect if you go purely on measurables, but he can definitely be a pro bowl quality #1 with the right system/quarterback and a pretty damn devastating #2 if he gets drafted in the latter half of 1st round paired with a franchise #1 WR.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Hunter is definitely a burner. Legit 4.4 speed.
Yeah, that's nice speed. But I'm talking elite in the 4.3 range. Seems like every CB and WR in the NFL is running 4.4 these days. If Hunter can stay healthy and run something like a 4.38 then I can see him going top 10 in April. But if he runs a 4.48 maybe he's more of a top 15-20 guy.
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