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Old 07-23-2012, 09:02 PM    (permalink
soybean
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Default Penn State Sanctions

Can we start a new thread to talk about the sanctions? I didn't want to have to sift through the sandusky trial thread and they're essentially two different points.

Anyways, what do you guys think?

Too be honest I don't really agree with the ruling.

What I would honestly do is just give them a financial blow. 10 million dollars for 10 years. 1 million to each of the victims and the rest to various charities the advocating awareness and prevention of child sexual abuse.

I honestly think all these "football" related punishments are a bit empty and do nothing except decimate the school which derives a lot of their economy from the football program.

The worst is vacating wins. That is and always will be the most r3tarded punishment ever.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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They will be getting fined over $100 million taking into account the NCAA and Big Ten sanctions.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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There are people out there who don't agree with these sanctions because it punishes current students and other sports. But my question is, what punishment doesn't? Fine them $250 million because that sure as hell would hurt current students in the terms of increased tuition and fees.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Theres literally no way for the NCAA to punish the right program, almost ever. USC and OSU for the most part punished the wrong people. But that's how it works, and doing nothing is not the solution. It's almost more of a punishment of deterrent to future schools than it is a retaliation to a crime.

But the alternative is worse. They did these horrific things to protect the program. Fitting that it is instead the downfall.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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The are an institution of higher learning and without question they put the welfare of the football program over the welfare of children. No punishment will ever fit that crime. Frankly them sustaining a football program at all some will argue isn't fair. This crime will never go away for the victims, nor anyone associated with college football.

I cannot comprehend how people actually can contest the punishment being too harsh....
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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There are people out there who don't agree with these sanctions because it punishes current students and other sports. But my question is, what punishment doesn't? Fine them $250 million because that sure as hell would hurt current students in the terms of increased tuition and fees.
not sure i agree with that

1. players are able to transfer now or at the end of the season without sitting out a year

2. if they want to remain at penn state, they will still be able to play football

3. if they want to remain at penn state, but not play football, they will still have their scholarship honored

they still get a good education for free, which is the point of college
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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not sure i agree with that

1. players are able to transfer now or at the end of the season without sitting out a year

2. if they want to remain at penn state, they will still be able to play football

3. if they want to remain at penn state, but not play football, they will still have their scholarship honored

they still get a good education for free, which is the point of college
I think they are talking about the current students who aren't members of the football team.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sympathetic to the current students. Do you realize how many schools have football teams that are barely worth watching? Most of them.

So PSU students don't get to root for their team to win the conference or make a bowl game. They don't get to claim that their iconic coach has the record for most wins. Boohoo.

If Penn State were to lose state funding, then I'd feel terrible for the students.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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If you don't penalize them because you are fearful of "hurting the current students", then all schools that committed some type of infraction would just clean house each time a scandal would occur. Yeah it sucks, but that's life at times. It was awful that lower-level employees lost their job at Enron, etc. But that's what happens when you have corruption up top.

Anyway, I think the vacating the wins was stupid and merely to satisfy the wave of anti-JoePa being the winningest coach ever. I mean, the guy is vile as far as I'm concerned but the ONLY person that it affects is dead. So he died thinking he was the winningest coach ever. Just stupid. What happens if they somehow find out that Paterno knew in '91 or something?

My idea was stupid but I liked it. Every dollar earned by the PSU football program for six years goes right to an on-campus charity for sex abuse. Maybe not "on-campus" but if Penn State is going to try and make this "OK", they have to go above and beyond just as the NCAA did for the punishment.

I'd even support trying to get the Big-10 to emulate the "THON" thing PSU does and make it a national day of child abuse recognition. It could really do great things.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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If you don't penalize them because you are fearful of "hurting the current students", then all schools that committed some type of infraction would just clean house each time a scandal would occur. Yeah it sucks, but that's life at times. It was awful that lower-level employees lost their job at Enron, etc. But that's what happens when you have corruption up top.

Anyway, I think the vacating the wins was stupid and merely to satisfy the wave of anti-JoePa being the winningest coach ever. I mean, the guy is vile as far as I'm concerned but the ONLY person that it affects is dead. So he died thinking he was the winningest coach ever. Just stupid. What happens if they somehow find out that Paterno knew in '91 or something?

My idea was stupid but I liked it. Every dollar earned by the PSU football program for six years goes right to an on-campus charity for sex abuse. Maybe not "on-campus" but if Penn State is going to try and make this "OK", they have to go above and beyond just as the NCAA did for the punishment.

I'd even support trying to get the Big-10 to emulate the "THON" thing PSU does and make it a national day of child abuse recognition. It could really do great things.
That's way too radical. There's operating costs and the school derives a lot of things from the profit of the football team.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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Penn State should have been punished as an institution but to basically target football only makes no sense to me. The administrators who covered this up are responsible - not the football team. Paterno was a figurehead and the big name that the media was out to crucify and they did - sending him to his grave. Granted he does share part of the blame.

I just fail to see the logic of punishing a football program full of players and coaches who had nothing to do with the Sandusky issue. PSU is going to face civil suits from the victims and be forced to pay out money as an institution which I have no problem with.

I am just waiting on Emmert to actually start investigating other programs for shady recruiting practices, schools covering for student athletes who cheat, players getting money from boosters etc.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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I would say what Penn State got is worse than the Death penalty for SMU.

But really, what else could one do, this was all revolving around the football program.

All the top people in the football program were aware of this from 1998 and possibly before then. No one ever questioned anything or tried to stop anything?

Hell all they would of had to do, the presidents and higher ups, along with Joe Pa, is ban Sandusky from access to football buildings and deny him access to bowl games and all Penn State events.

If they would have done this in 1998, none of this would have happened at all.



Instead they did nothing and allowed him completely and unquestioned access at all times till 2011. As said in the FBI report, they basically allowed Sandusky perfect opportunities for over a decade to develop relationships with potential victims and carry out sexual abuse.

So really, the fact is that they did not want to hurt the Penn State image, and tried to hide it all, hope it went away. I am glad that the Penn State football program is being hurt by all of this. The students are not being hurt, the football program is. Sure the athletic department will take a hit but it is not like they don't already have top of the line facilities in place for those other sports.

Yes the current football players had nothing to do with it, but it was the football program leaders, Joe Pa, the president and others who were protecting and trying to save the image of Penn State football. Well that is destroyed, it was before the trail and now it literally is afterwards. It had to be done regardless of fairness to current players or past players.

If college football programs got bowl bans, losing scholarships etc. for players getting a free par of shoes...

I would sure hope a football program and upper college officials allowing known sexual abuse of young boys to occur under their watch would get a little harsher punishment.

And they did.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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That's way too radical. There's operating costs and the school derives a lot of things from the profit of the football team.
Yeah, I realized that a few weeks ago and it was the ultimate knee-jerk. It was stupid but I liked it in my Utopian world.

Uhm also....this is just my idea but I decided to do something other than complain....let me know what you all think...

https://www.change.org/petitions/all...l-day-of-thon#
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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As predicted, the Paterno clan is unhappy with the punishments, and actually wanted to be consulted by the NCAA before any penalties were doled out. Basically, they wanted to try and prevent them from taking the Ws.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/13950...sanctions.html

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The release of the Freeh report has triggered an avalanche of vitriol, condemnation and posthumous punishment on Joe Paterno. The NCAA has now become the latest party to accept the report as the final word on the Sandusky scandal. The sanctions announced by the NCAA today defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach and educator without any input from our family or those who knew him best.
Very curious. So, if you get caught stealing a car, the court should interview your family on what type of punishment you should receive. Good to know.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I realized that a few weeks ago and it was the ultimate knee-jerk. It was stupid but I liked it in my Utopian world.

Uhm also....this is just my idea but I decided to do something other than complain....let me know what you all think...

https://www.change.org/petitions/all...l-day-of-thon#
Mega props to you man. Fight the good fight and get this movement going.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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They will be getting fined over $100 million taking into account the NCAA and Big Ten sanctions.
And that's before the civil lawsuits (which will come after the criminal trials are over) total over 100 million.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Let them burn. They deserve anything they get. What the institution allowed is unforgivable.

On that note, I am glad that the NCAA took steps necessary to minimize the negative impacts on the current student athletes enrolled in the program. They are not at fault. Hopefully many of them move on and succeed in other programs.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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They look almost as happy as when someone gets into the NCAA tournament...
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm more concerned about the students who aren't athletes I imagine these actions will hurt the regular students by taking money away from the university which will likely result in higher tuition.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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I almost wish they had put some sort of ban on getting money from bowls and some restriction on BCS bowls rather than not letting them play in them all together. that part of the punishment seems to be worse for the players than any others. it's not like these kids are NFL players and they can just move somewhere new without batting an eyelash (or whatever that saying is) transferring colleges can be a pretty big deal you leave a lot behind
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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I'm more concerned about the students who aren't athletes I imagine these actions will hurt the regular students by taking money away from the university which will likely result in higher tuition.
I crunched the numbers the other day, and if they pay it over a four or five year period, and if enrollment stays roughly the same as it was last year, I think it comes out to about $200-300 per student, per year.

They could easily pass the fine onto the student body as a part of their annual tuition increase. Almost nobody would notice, because tuition goes up almost every year. They might even spread the tuition increase out over a ten year span, but the fine is almost certainly going to be passed onto the students.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Basically what it all boils down to is that these punishments all target everyone who had nothing to do with the crimes and nobody that did, except for maybe JoePa, who is dead and couldn't care less (so a completely empty target).

Current players, past players, current students, past students, the current administration, every other sporting team at the college are the targets of this penalty.

I know they had to penalise someone because vengeance and all that but this punishment just seems entirely misdirected to me. Again, I guess it's hard to target all the people that have already lost their jobs and had their names tarnished forever.

I'm not a PSU fan in anyway but I can certainly see why their students, players and alumni would complain about the punishment given that they are the ones it is punishing and they did nothing wrong.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:14 AM    (permalink
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The institution is being punished for institutional failures. If Penn State were a private, for-profit institution, they'd probably be brought to the brink of liquidation after a scandal of this magnitude (see: Arthur Andersen, LLP).

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Old 07-25-2012, 06:38 AM    (permalink
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That's how the NCAA works. Can't go back in time and punish the right people. Look at OSU and USC for examples. Wrong players and coaches get bowl bans.

But you can't just have the schools clean house and that be it. If so, schools would just have to fire a few people and replace them for their punishment. Really doesn't deter schools from violations at all. Have to punish the institution, even if it appear unfair, mainly to deter future violations. Bush and Pryor hurt their teams, and got out of there before the sanctions were made.

Same scenario at Penn State. Except that I think they got off very light, harboring a child rapist and letting him continue to molest kids on campus is far worse than getting tattoos, cars, or houses, and should have been punished by more than just extra scholarship losses and bowl bans.
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