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Old 07-30-2012, 11:39 AM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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Best NJX post ever!!! I would put that in my sig but it's too long.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Santonio, how many did you order?

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Well in the Freeh Report it states that in Paterno's Grand Jury testimony he said that he never knew of any incidents that took place between Sandusky and little children. He knew about the 98 incident and lied to the Grand Jury during the 01 questioning.
What is the evidence that he knew about '98? Whether he knew anything or not, '98 was fully investigated and DA Gricar closed the case. Sandusky was exonerated of any sexual behavior according to the report done by John Seasock.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Even of Paterno didn't know in 98, does that change anything? Cause it obviously doesn't to a sane person. By his own admission he knew in 2001, so it really doesn't make any difference to me when between 1998 or 2001 he knew. Either way he was wrong.

And communist has just become a bad word in America. No one really remembers what it actually means but if I call you one it's bad.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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He did know in 98. There's testimony that they told him about the incident.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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This is getting sad.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe that t shirt I posted above. I've been harping on it, but there is a disgustingly huge percentage of PSU fans that are sick, twisted cultists.

It's why I believe the whole football program should have been banned from the NCAA for two years. There is a whole bunch of reprogramming that a large amount of people need to go through. These people are sick and it utterly disgusts me.

This repulsion has nothing to do with football or rivalries or whatever. It has to do with wiping out as many seeds of corruption as possible. There is no introspection in this large group of cultists, just reflexive defensive posturing as a bunch of brainwashed psychos reject reality.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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I just don't understand why. There's not anyone in the world I would support with just the things Joe admitted to have done, let alone a football coach. And I have plenty of smart normal otherwise same friends than are acting, a little less childish, but pretty much like Santonio. They want the statue back, think Paterno is being mistreated, and are the most upset about losing Paternos wins.

I liked Joe, but you let kids get molested? Get the **** out.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
I can't believe that t shirt I posted above. I've been harping on it, but there is a disgustingly huge percentage of PSU fans that are sick, twisted cultists.

It's why I believe the whole football program should have been banned from the NCAA for two years. There is a whole bunch of reprogramming that a large amount of people need to go through. These people are sick and it utterly disgusts me.

This repulsion has nothing to do with football or rivalries or whatever. It has to do with wiping out as many seeds of corruption as possible. There is no introspection in this large group of cultists, just reflexive defensive posturing as a bunch of brainwashed psychos reject reality.
Don't act like any other big football program and the school attached to it would act any differently if they got punished like this for something that the vast majority had nothing to do with and absolutely no control over. Any time you punish 100% of the population for something that .0001% of the population did you will get people being outraged and the more moronic of them will go to extreme lengths. (see Auburn tree poisoning for a similar thing). That's basically what it comes down to. A dozen people did something wrong and a few hundred thousand are being punished for it.

What happened was disgraceful, no one is arguing that (I hope) but does punishing everyone really fit in this situation? Again, people like njx might think that transferring means nothing but to a great many people it is a huge deal, some people can't move due to family or financial reasons, not everyone can or is happy to live a nomadic lifestyle or uproot their entire existence.

I think some form of punishment was needed but such wide reaching punishment just spreads the punishment to everyone who didn't have anything to do with it and really lessens the impact it has on those that actually did do something wrong.

To be honest I couldn't really care less other than it feels wrong to me, I don't have any affiliation at all with PSU and couldn't care less if they are a football power or not, I just think that this particular punishment is using a nuke when a few well placed bullets were all that was needed.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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transferring is NOT a big deal, and it's LESS of a big deal for a scholarshipped athlete. period. further, if you don't want to uproot, you're not being forced to. you just don't get to root for a bunch of dudes who supported child molestation. boo-*******-hoo. or you don't get to play for a scumbag and represent him in bowl games. you're STILL not being punished.

it's like telling your kid, 'johnny, i didn't say you needed to sit in the corner, you can go play outside with your friends.' only to hear, 'and have to uproot myself?! stop punishing me!'

it's ******* pathetic and it speaks not only to how poorly y'alls generation copes with not getting every single thing you want, but how incapable you are at articulating why you think you deserve it. it sucks that transferring may mean you have to make some new friends. it sucks that it's sort of like finding a job in the real world. it sucks that we can't just shut our eyes and pretend that joe paterno was actually a saint, just so penn state students can continue to root for their football team. it sucks that football players aren't losing a year of eligibility of they want to go play someplace else for free on whatever scholarships they're offered. it sucks that the football program wasn't even closed down and those players can continue to bloody play at penn state if they so choose and those poor, oppressed students can continue to root for them. it sucks that every single other football program in the country is probably also harboring hundreds of child rapists and the ncaa just really must hate penn state to go so out of its way to tarnish paterno.

honestly, at this point, i wish they had punished the school and the students. i wish they'd taken away penn state's accreditation, and banned it's sports teams from playing in any NCAA competition. at least then there might be some slight bit of truth in all the bitching y'all are doing.
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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That's basically what it comes down to. A dozen people did something wrong and a few hundred thousand are being punished for it.
Wait, waaaaait....

Could you explain how "a few hundred thousand" are being punished? I hope you are just exagerrating, and only mean a few hundred, but surely you are not including PSU fans and alumni as being "punished" because they will have a crappy football team...

I can buy that the current players are being punished to an extent, and then even the other programs that rely on PSU football revenue, but even that isn't unprecedented.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Yea I don't really see how alumni and fans are being punished. With the payment being spread over a few years, they will still make profit each year and continue to be able to fund the other sports. I don't think they'll increase tuition to help pay the NCAA. A postseason ban, is that really that big of a deal? That really hurt USC, and Ohio State didn't it. So there will be an inferior team on the field for 4-10 years thanks to the lost scholarships? Welcome to the early 2000s. I'm sure Iowa fans remember the infamous 6-4 game.

I had to deal with some douchebags at the mall that one day but I haven't stopped wearing my PSU gear and nobody has said anything to me outside of that one day right after the Freeh report came out. Maybe its just me but I really don't feel like I'm being punished in any way by all this.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Yea I don't really see how alumni and fans are being punished. With the payment being spread over a few years, they will still make profit each year and continue to be able to fund the other sports. I don't think they'll increase tuition to help pay the NCAA. A postseason ban, is that really that big of a deal? That really hurt USC, and Ohio State didn't it. So there will be an inferior team on the field for 4-10 years thanks to the lost scholarships? Welcome to the early 2000s. I'm sure Iowa fans remember the infamous 6-4 game.

I had to deal with some douchebags at the mall that one day but I haven't stopped wearing my PSU gear and nobody has said anything to me outside of that one day right after the Freeh report came out. Maybe its just me but I really don't feel like I'm being punished in any way by all this.
Well that's because you're obviously a reasonable human being.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Well that's because you're obviously a reasonable human being.
Agreed. Also, the 6-4 game was amazing and I hope we have an equally great game this year.

I do think it sucks for the PSU students, alumni, and fans, but don't think they are being punished at all. I hope they don't try to raise tuition because that would be messed up. I can see raising ticket prices and other prices associated with athletics, but even that would probably piss off some people.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Agreed. Also, the 6-4 game was amazing and I hope we have an equally great game this year.
As heartbreaking as many of the Iowa games have been since 2000, they do tend to be great games. Between the 6-4 game and those two games in 2008 and 2009, even though they are losses, they are a few of the more memorable games we've had.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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As heartbreaking as many of the Iowa games have been since 2000, they do tend to be great games. Between the 6-4 game and those two games in 2008 and 2009, even though they are losses, they are a few of the more memorable games we've had.
I think the Iowa-PSU "rivalry" has been really entertaining over the last decade, and I think the fans of both teams (at least online) seem to have embraced it. Plus, it always seems like for whatever reason, the Iowa-PSU game, regardless if it's at Iowa or PSU, seems to either be high profile, a night game, or have some added extra attention to it. I think the media loved playing up Ferentz being from Pennsylvania, and probably now will play up the Ferentz-Belichick-O'Brien-Little Ferentz connections.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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transferring is NOT a big deal, and it's LESS of a big deal for a scholarshipped athlete. period. further, if you don't want to uproot, you're not being forced to. you just don't get to root for a bunch of dudes who supported child molestation. boo-*******-hoo. or you don't get to play for a scumbag and represent him in bowl games. you're STILL not being punished.

it's like telling your kid, 'johnny, i didn't say you needed to sit in the corner, you can go play outside with your friends.' only to hear, 'and have to uproot myself?! stop punishing me!'
So now the fans are cheering for the people who "supported" the child molestation? Not for the football team? Really? So supporting a football team that but for a very select few involved in it had nothing to do with that is now supporting child rape.

As for your kid in the corner, it is a lot like that, except you are getting it entirely wrong, it's like the kids outside are playing dodgeball and there is a prize for the winner and you tell the kid, you are allowed to go out there and play with them but you aren't allowed to win because your teacher last year who is now at another school got a speeding ticket.

Sure they don't have to transfer, unless they want to actually play for something in football, unless they want to compete. If they want to win anything then they have to transfer, not because they did something wrong but because a select few enabled a criminal.

Put it this way, say it was the Broncos and your entire fan base was told that because of something that your former GM did entirely unrelated to football that for the next 4 years your team isn't allowed to win anything, are you not being punished then? If you say that it wouldn't matter you are a pretty poor fan in my book. Football may not be important to you but to a great many, sitting down on Sunday and watching your team and hoping they win is important, taking that away from them for something they didn't do is a pretty harsh punishment, in my book at least.

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Wait, waaaaait....

Could you explain how "a few hundred thousand" are being punished? I hope you are just exagerrating, and only mean a few hundred, but surely you are not including PSU fans and alumni as being "punished" because they will have a crappy football team...

I can buy that the current players are being punished to an extent, and then even the other programs that rely on PSU football revenue, but even that isn't unprecedented.
It isn't about having a crappy football team, they may well have had that anyway, it's about having a football team that isn't allowed to win anything. Making it harder to win is one thing but making it impossible, well that takes everything away, that is punishing the fans of that team.

Say it came out today that at the 1996 Olympics that one of the US coaches had murdered someone and that another administrator witnessed it and didn't do anything about, would you as a nation not be punished if the IOC came out and said that no US Olympian may win a medal this year as a result of those two people? Your athletes may all compete under the Olympic flag if they wish but if they compete under the USA flag they are ineligible for medals. Can you not see how that is punishing the fans or the current athletes who dreamed of representing the US at the Olympics? Your Olympic team didn't cheat or do anything to give them an unfair advantage at winning but two people made awful decisions and as a result everyone else is paying the price.

That is what is happening hear, imo. Again, I couldn't care less about PSU, I have no affiliation, don't particularly like anything about the school or its football program but that doesn't mean I don't think that the people they've punished here are not those that did the crime. Maybe that's just me...
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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I fail to see how the US not being able to compete in the Olympics is a punishment to me in any way. Do I cheat for the US? Of course. But that's like saying my favorite tv show being canceled is a direct punishment to me. Just because I would have slightly less entertainment in my life doesn't make it a punishment.

Like wise, not being able to watch a competitive football team is not a punishment to the fans. They have about 20 other teams to cheer for, specifically wrestling and women's volleyball.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
I fail to see how the US not being able to compete in the Olympics is a punishment to me in any way. Do I cheat for the US? Of course. But that's like saying my favorite tv show being canceled is a direct punishment to me. Just because I would have slightly less entertainment in my life doesn't make it a punishment.

Like wise, not being able to watch a competitive football team is not a punishment to the fans. They have about 20 other teams to cheer for, specifically wrestling and women's volleyball.
Maybe it's just me then... I still remember that my mums favourite punishment for me was taking away things that I liked doing so maybe I'm just someone that when they have something they like taken away feels punished! I know if you told me the Vikings weren't able to win anything for the next 4 years I'd be pretty damn shattered, if we'd cheated I'd be annoyed as hell but would understand it (hell if you aren't cheating you aren't trying hard enough right?) but if it was for something that had nothing to do with football I'd be pretty damn annoyed at me being punished by it. Just think there is a big difference between cheating, for which you should be punished and something that has nothing to do with the actual competition and being punished for that.

I think those involved should be punished as much as possible I just don't think this punishment actually hits those involved, again for me it feels like the dropped a nuke on PSU after all those involved had already caught the first flight out and avoided it.

PS.. missed the TV show thing first time round... I'd say it's more akin to that show continuing but you not being able to watch it because some guy on your street did something wrong. In this case the show is still running but you aren't allowed to watch it because of someone else. Something like a lockout is more like a show getting cancelled, where no one gets to watch it, sure everyone is worse off by not being able to enjoy it but it wasn't targeted. To be a punishment for me it takes being singled out and having something taken away, rather than no one getting that thing in which case it's just unfortunate.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Well it's probably that we disagree that it had nothing to do with football. I feel that one of the big reasons that this was all covered up was to protect the football program. By not coming out with it sooner, they created an advantage in that the football team wasn't punished initially. Had it been reported in 98 or 01, there would have likely been a slap on the wrist and the football program's reputation tainted, causing possibly less interest from recruits and certainly less interest from tv networks and bowls (aka less money).

So I firmly believe the cover up, regardless of who the main culprit(s) were, was done to preserve the reputation of the football team.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Well it's probably that we disagree that it had nothing to do with football. I feel that one of the big reasons that this was all covered up was to protect the football program. By not coming out with it sooner, they created an advantage in that the football team wasn't punished initially. Had it been reported in 98 or 01, there would have likely been a slap on the wrist and the football program's reputation tainted, causing possibly less interest from recruits and certainly less interest from tv networks and bowls (aka less money).

So I firmly believe the cover up, regardless of who the main culprit(s) were, was done to preserve the reputation of the football team.
There are almost certainly elements of it being that. I don't think the fine element was unjust, really it's taking away any ability to win that to me misses the target. Even the scholarships aren't a huge deal, that could be seen as a fair football punishment for those who think there was a significant competitive advantage gained. Taking away the ability to win though just hits everyone invested in the program, be it emotionally, physically or financially, who hasn't done anything wrong.

I do think something was needed and I think the fine, vacated wins and even scholarships would have done. The fine hits the administration, the vacated wins don't mean anything to normal fans (they still won those games when both teams were doing everything to win) and only really hit Paterno for his part in it. The scholarships are the reminder over the next 4 years. Taking away winning going forward though to me doesn't target anyone who did the crimes and only impacts those left picking up the pieces.

As I've said though, I really couldn't care less about the PSU program and what's done is done! I just personally think the punishment was overreaching.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Ok, apparently the portion of PSU idiots is even more sizable than I had thought.

70,000 PSU fans lambast ESPN for slamming Paterno.

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Showing no signs of higher intelligence, over 70,000 Penn State students and fans of Penn State "liked" a Facebook comment on the Penn State page that demands ESPN apologize for “dragging Joe Paterno though the dirt.” The comment is directed toward Penn State president Rodney Erickson, and claims that ESPN didn’t treat Paterno or Penn State with justice.
In opposition to their claims is the evidence from the Freeh Report, which states that Paterno acted with “callous and shocking disregard for child victims.”
But don’t hold students to the facts. They are out to right a grievous wrong, according to the post on Facebook:
“Even until the day he passed away, Coach Paterno lived with gracious integrity and still to this day, has been the only staff member to admit he was wrong.
I also ask that ESPN give a sincere and public apology for dragging the school, Joe Pa, the victims, and the fans, alumni, and families of Penn State through the dirt by giving an unfair and completely biased, opinionated report.”
And then, in a hilariously inappropriate analogy, the post goes on to say: “We do not remove the Lincoln Memorial because he started the Civil War, rather we leave it as a reminder of the good he’s done.”
Lincoln: freeing slaves.
Paterno: freeing Sandusky so he can maim young men for life.
Now there’s the kind of thinking that justifies sending your kid to college.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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Is that Lincoln quote for real?
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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Maybe it's because of social media groupthink, but a lot of PSU fans seem to be handling this with a lot less class than fans of previous schools who've faced NCAA sanctions.

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Old 08-01-2012, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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You know, for all the arguments that PSU fans and students keep making for the academic integrity of the university, how they graduate players, how they are a world class university, etc., they have some really moronic fans. (not all of them)

As I'm sure you all have seen, they will pull up a recent news story, for example Iowa RB Deandre Johnson getting a disorderly house citation and then arrested/cited for speeding and eluding cops. Some PSU fan(s) will make the argument that the NCAA should investigate and sanction Iowa, since that's what they did to PSU.
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