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Old 08-02-2012, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
oh. it's the same idiotic argument with which typically-sec fans (though others are certainly susceptible) auto-fellate by tautology. haven't seen this one since last season.

Not really. It is however, my theory.... and quite a sound one.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to add Stephen Hill. He's one of those players where you were walking a very thin line based on where he went. If he was a Texan, I wouldn't be saying this. Everything is just going against him at this point though. First, he's gets drafted into Tony's ground and pound offense. Then he gets stuck as vertical threat with the Sanchez/Tebow show. And now, they're asking Cromartie to do exactly what Stephen Hill should be doing for them. RIP Stephen Hill.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
I'd like to add Stephen Hill. He's one of those players where you were walking a very thin line based on where he went. If he was a Texan, I wouldn't be saying this. Everything is just going against him at this point though. First, he's gets drafted into Tony's ground and pound offense. Then he gets stuck as vertical threat with the Sanchez/Tebow show. And now, they're asking Cromartie to do exactly what Stephen Hill should be doing for them. RIP Stephen Hill.
I wanted to include Hill, but I decided to stick with first rounders. Hill will bust in NY, I have no doubts.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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The situation is what I think condemns Andrew Luck. Indianapolis is not a team that's 1 QB away from going back to the Superbowl.
Name me one team in the history of the entire NFL draft who has had the #1 pick that was one QB away from a Super Bowl. I don't think you realize how ridiculous this statement is.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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I don't understand the Cromartie comment? Cro said he'd be the second best WR on the team. That's it. The coaches didn't give the No. 2 job to Cro. wtf?

Hill already earned the No. 2 based on his play this summer, he's like 20 years old, and he's already had success in a run-first offense.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
If I were to put together a list of future first round draft busts it'd have to be:

Quinton Coples: Huge talent, but the attitude is all wrong and he doesn't have the physical tools to live of those alone.

Morris Claiborne: Late in the process I started to sour on him a bit. Good, but not great college CB taken in the top ten? I think he'll end up busting.

Justin Blackmon: Dude's a turd and is missing camp his rookie year. How did that turn out for Crabtree? Throw in a piss poor QB and that's a bust.

Bruce Irvin: I wouldn't even have taken him in the third round. I think he's a one trick pony who'll end up playing out of position.

Brandon Weeden: He's just not very good.

Melvin Ingram: He's terrible.

AJ Jenkins: I just don't see it.
I don't understand the bold - Claiborne is an excellent athlete with pure elite cover skills, tremendous hips, good quickness, a willingness to tackle, and great ball skills.

And the Weeden hate is always laughable.

The biggest knock on him is that he never dealt with pressure (and his age, which doesn't have much to do with his game). Other than that, his game is that of a top-5 QB. No one knows it though because they just see unusual age, Big 12, and write him off. It's really bad.

The film shows a tough, smart, accurate, rocket-armed passer with OK athleticism, who sometimes trusts his arm too much, and at times struggles with pressure in the pocket.

But, 'he's just not that good' + 'insert joke about his age' usually suffices on this site.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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i think hill is going to be a stud, better than thomas
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to add Stephen Hill. He's one of those players where you were walking a very thin line based on where he went. If he was a Texan, I wouldn't be saying this. Everything is just going against him at this point though. First, he's gets drafted into Tony's ground and pound offense. Then he gets stuck as vertical threat with the Sanchez/Tebow show. And now, they're asking Cromartie to do exactly what Stephen Hill should be doing for them. RIP Stephen Hill.
:(

Have faith that the Mark Sanchez 'led' Jets will eventually be bad enough to get Thrill Hill a real QB. You know evaluating WR's bothers me because their success is so situation dependent but having bad QB play as a rookie doesn't mean he'll have to endure it for the rest of his whole young (in his prime years) career.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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:(

Have faith that the Mark Sanchez 'led' Jets will eventually be bad enough to get Thrill Hill a real QB. You know evaluating WR's bothers me because their success is so situation dependent but having bad QB play as a rookie doesn't mean he'll have to endure it for the rest of his whole young (in his prime years) career.


Cromartie's also stealing practice reps/coaching/game snaps from him in a crucial developmental stage. RIP Stephen Hill.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I think Weeden is going to be fine if the Browns can give him a clean pocket.
Play action with Richardson should be one of their best passing plays.

I don't think Stephen Hill is going to bust, but his development is going to be slowed his first couple seasons being saddled on such a borderline dysfunctional team like the Jets.

There's no reason at all Cromartie should even be given a look at WR.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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There's no reason at all Cromartie should even be given a look at WR.
I disagree. Do you know what their entire WR corps looks like? Santonio is in his own world right now, and has been for some time. He quits, when he does try he gives 30%, and is a shell of his former self. Hill is a 20 year old rookie from a spread offense who caught what, 30 passes last year? Jeremy Kerley has been a huge disappointment all around, Chaz Schilens tends to get hurt anytime the wind blows harder then 5mph, I mean it's not like this is a group you can put a lot of confidence in.


At least Cro has got size, speed, and athleticism. It can't hurt. though I'd be giving his reps to Holmes since he's obviously not interested in practice. Someone forgot to tell him it was football season but for now he'll just pull himself out of practice everytime he gets too hot from the sun or tired.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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At least Cro has got size, speed, and athleticism.
So does Stephen Hill.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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There's no reason at all Cromartie should even be given a look at WR.
At all?



I think Cro would have made a better offensive player than defensive back.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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So does Stephen Hill.
Yet Stephen Hill can't form an entire WR rotation by himself. Him getting reps has everything to do with their entire WR corps and nothing to do with Hill.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Yet Stephen Hill can't form an entire WR rotation by himself. Him getting reps has everything to do with their entire WR corps and nothing to do with Hill.

Let's be real here. Hill's impact is solely going to be on 9 routes and quick screens this year. Want to guess what they're having Cro do?
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Let's be real here. Hill's impact is solely going to be on 9 routes and quick screens this year. Want to guess what they're having Cro do?
Please don't tell me you think Cromartie is going to be a full time WR all of a sudden. He's still a CB, and last time I checked he was the 2nd best one they had and pretty important to how they want to play defense. He'll get a handful of snaps at WR in a meaningful game. You make it seem like the only way Hill can develop is if he's the only tall, fast, athletic WR on the team or else he's going to rot and deteriorate of talent.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Please don't tell me you think Cromartie is going to be a full time WR all of a sudden. He's still a CB, and last time I checked he was the 2nd best one they had and pretty important to how they want to play defense. He'll get a handful of snaps at WR in a meaningful game. You make it seem like the only way Hill can develop is if he's the only tall, fast, athletic WR on the team or else he's going to rot and deteriorate of talent.
Do you not think that the extra planning to get Cromartie on offense, the coaching to make him look competent, the reps Cromartie is getting in practice is taking away from Hill?
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Do you not think that the extra planning to get Cromartie on offense, the coaching to make him look competent, the reps Cromartie is getting in practice is taking away from Hill?
No I don't. Maybe if Cro was having his own practice off to himself and the coaches were ignoring Hill completely or refusing to give him shoulder pads. I think your looking too much into this. In what world do you think that you only need 1 WR or somehow you can't get meaningful reps? If you think a CB taking a handful of reps is taking something away from Hill trust me he wasn't going to amount to anything anyway.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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BTW Georgia Tech runs that Navy triple option crap offense that only throws to the WR as a bailout. That's partly why Stephen Hill had so few receptions in 2011.

If he'd played in a spread offense last year he would have been a first round pick.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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BTW Georgia Tech runs that Navy triple option crap offense that only throws to the WR as a bailout. That's partly why Stephen Hill had so few receptions in 2011.

If he'd played in a spread offense last year he would have been a first round pick.
Plus, Demaryius Thomas played in the same offense, and he looked pretty good last season even with the QBs he had to deal with.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Shea McClellin: I didn't like what I saw from him as a defensive end and he was drafted to be one. If the Bears ran a 3-4 I would say a pretty decent pick, but as an end in a 4-3 he will bust.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:38 AM    (permalink
K Train
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i think he'll do ok playing across from peppers, he is relentless and they can move him around to make him most effective. i think hed be beastly in a 34, but its not a TERRIBLE fit either.

i dont get all the stephen hill hate, hes big, fast, showed crisp route running and soft hands....imo the only thing working against him is hes a jet
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K Train View Post
i think bruce irvin could be very successful playing like von miller did, pretty much everywhere as a LB and DE. It was a slight reach but they got their guy, to say he wasnt a even a 3rd rounder is odd...even one trick ponies can be good players
The reach on Irvin is not on the field, but off it. IMO he was late 1st round tools and skills. If he turns the attitude around, its a decent pick. Otherwise a long reach. If all he can do is rush the passer, h needs to be Derrick Thomas reborn.

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Old 08-04-2012, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I think you have to look at why players bust. Sometimes they get into a system that doesn't fit their style of play, or with a coaching staff that doesn't do a good job developing players. Injuries and too much emphasis on measurables also have to be taken into account. There are always the head scratchers where your left wondering why a prospect didnt' make it.

Andrew Luck, for instance, seems like one of the better quarterback prospects to come out in a long time. But he has a big task in front of him trying to turn around a Colt franchise. Will he survive the early years? I think so, but I thought the same about Tim Couch.

Prior to the draft I felt Quinton Coples had a high bust factor. But, I think going to the Jets might be a good fit for him. Rex Ryan does know defense.

I know some people have included Ryan Tannehill on this list, but I think he's in a great situation in Miami with a coaching staff that knows how to develop quarterbacks and without the expectation of starting right away.

There are no guarantees and there will be players who bust who most of us thought would be good players in this league.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
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The one I'm most confident in busting is Chandler Jones. He's uncoordinated, and lacks vision and instincts. He's got great length, but that's pretty much it. If he turns into anything at all, it will take some time.
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