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Old 08-22-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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I agree, in theory, but having a veteran presence can be crucial. Also, Kilgore has been getting most of his reps at Center.
I actually have to agree with Dan for once. I like Looney's potential a lot more than Davis. And I find it odd Davis didn't play at all last week. I could see them going with potential over the vet presence. And I remember reading Looney looking good when he finally came back from his foot injury, though I don't recall seeing him against the Texans last week. But I could also see it vice versa, in favor of Davis. I haven't even done a 53-man projection this year because I really have no clue what this roster will look like. Hopefully, that's a good thing.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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I actually have to agree with Dan for once. I like Looney's potential a lot more than Davis. And I find it odd Davis didn't play at all last week. I could see them going with potential over the vet presence. And I remember reading Looney looking good when he finally came back from his foot injury, though I don't recall seeing him against the Texans last week. But I could also see it vice versa, in favor of Davis. I haven't even done a 53-man projection this year because I really have no clue what this roster will look like. Hopefully, that's a good thing.
I don't disagree that keeping Looney, Kilgore, etc over L. Davis makes sense. My point is that keeping L. Davis makes more sense than say, keeping a 4th QB or Rock Cartwright, etc.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Looney is going to make the team. No doubt. Not even worth discussing.

I think JJ gets cut.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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Offense (25)

QB - Alex Smith | Colin Kaepernick | Scott Tolzien (3)
RB - Frank Gore | Kendall Hunter | Brandon Jacobs | LaMichael James (4)
FB - Bruce Miller (1)
TE - Vernon Davis | Delanie Walker (2)
OT - Joe Staley | Anthony Davis | Mike Person (OG) (3)
OG - Mike Iupati | Alex Boone (OT) | Leonard Davis | Joe Looney (4)
C - Jonathan Goodwin | Daniel Kilgore (OG) (2)
WR - Michael Crabtree | Randy Moss | Mario Manningham | Ted Ginn | Kyle Williams | A.J. Jenkins (6)

Defense (25)

DE - Justin Smith | Ray McDonald | DeMarcus Dobbs (TE/OLB)| Will Tukuafu (FB)(4)
NT - Isaac Sopoaga (DE)| Ricky Jean Francois (DE) | Ian Williams (DE) (3)
OLB - Aldon Smith | Ahmad Brooks | Parys Haralson | Eric Bakhtiari (4)
ILB - Patrick Willis | NaVorro Bowman | Larry Grant | Tavares Gooden (4)
CB - Tarell Brown | Carlos Rogers | Chris Culliver | Perrish Cox | Tramaine Brock (5)
S - Dashon Goldson | Donte Whitner | C.J. Spillman | Trenton Robinson | Colin Jones (5)

Special Teams (3)

K - David Akers
P - Andy Lee
LS - Brian Jennings

Fringe
QB - Josh Johnson
RB - Anthony Dixon
FB - Rock Cartwright
TE - Konrad Reuland (PS)
OLB - Cam Johnson (PS)
S - Darcel McBath
S - Michael Thomas (PS)

Practice Squad

C - Jason Slowey
WR - Chris Owusu
WR - Nathan Palmer
WR - Bryan Tyms
OLB - Kourtnei Brown
ILB - Michael Wilhoite (FB)
DB - Ben Hannula (WR)
DE - Tony Jerod-Eddie
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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By the way out of all the potentially disappointing factors that could occur against the Packers, I hope our offensive line doesn't crumble from the get go and Alex ends up taking a beating on every snap. Especially since this unit has been together for a while now.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:46 AM    (permalink
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By the way out of all the potentially disappointing factors that could occur against the Packers, I hope our offensive line doesn't crumble from the get go and Alex ends up taking a beating on every snap. Especially since this unit has been together for a while now.
the game just needs to start so I can stop being anxious about it
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:00 AM    (permalink
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Borat's first game thread should be interesting. Get ready to see this guy:



You know, the one we passed on.



Whoops...
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Even if we drafted Rodgers over Smith, to be honest, I think that everything goes the same way except that Smith wins a SB and Rodgers doesnt because both would be in the opposite situation that they were in and thus, the opposite would happen.

If Rodgers was a 49er and went through all those OC's, everyone here would be wanting him long gone just like we wanted Alex gone a year ago. And yeah, I do think that Smith would have won a SB in GB because look at the talent level of that team and being in the same system for his entire career would have resulted in Smith winning a SB.

Smith has the talent and skill but when all that other crap goes on around you and you're losing and getting killed out there, its easy to just say screw it and give up.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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I don't disagree that keeping Looney, Kilgore, etc over L. Davis makes sense. My point is that keeping L. Davis makes more sense than say, keeping a 4th QB or Rock Cartwright, etc.
I can see keeping Davis over a 4th string QB but not over Cartwright. Cartwright is good on special teams which is something Davis wont play on. He also adds another veteran presence to the RB position. Him and Gore would be good for Hunter, James and Miller. As for Jacobs, I would keep Cartwright over him because yeah, he'll look good early but trust me, watching him play with the Giants, he's going to decline sooner rather than later.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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I can see keeping Davis over a 4th string QB but not over Cartwright. Cartwright is good on special teams which is something Davis wont play on. He also adds another veteran presence to the RB position. Him and Gore would be good for Hunter, James and Miller. As for Jacobs, I would keep Cartwright over him because yeah, he'll look good early but trust me, watching him play with the Giants, he's going to decline sooner rather than later.
At the same time, ST's value only gets you so far. Only 10 position players line up on ST's. Cartwright would only see regular action if 4 RBs go down. Whereas Davis would see the field if 1 G went down. I'd like to see Cartwright make the team, but tough cuts will need to be made.

And I agree you can feel that Jacobs could wear down, but when was the last time you remember anything about Cartwright as a RB? He averages 1.4 carries per game in a 10 year career.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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At the same time, ST's value only gets you so far. Only 10 position players line up on ST's. Cartwright would only see regular action if 4 RBs go down. Whereas Davis would see the field if 1 G went down. I'd like to see Cartwright make the team, but tough cuts will need to be made.

And I agree you can feel that Jacobs could wear down, but when was the last time you remember anything about Cartwright as a RB? He averages 1.4 carries per game in a 10 year career.
Meh, you can say the same for Jones, who provides virtually no depth at all at safety but you have him making it over a guy like Thomas, who the coaches have raved about his play and versatility(can play both safety and CB) and with his speed looks to be a excellent gunner on STs from what I saw. Cartwright is a ace STer and can back-up both RB and FB. Like I said, your going to have to do more this year as a fringe player to stick. That's why I have a hard time seeing Jones on this roster. As of now, I would Thomas in over him. Jones is a good STer...but its not like we couldn't get as good of play out of either McBath(who was a good STer in his own right before his injury) or Thomas in the same role. And those guys have a pulse, in terms of being actual depth and contributing down the road as a safety. I've yet to hear one positive word or meaningful play mentioned in association with Jones as a defensive player

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Old 08-23-2012, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Even if we drafted Rodgers over Smith, to be honest, I think that everything goes the same way except that Smith wins a SB and Rodgers doesnt because both would be in the opposite situation that they were in and thus, the opposite would happen.

If Rodgers was a 49er and went through all those OC's, everyone here would be wanting him long gone just like we wanted Alex gone a year ago. And yeah, I do think that Smith would have won a SB in GB because look at the talent level of that team and being in the same system for his entire career would have resulted in Smith winning a SB.

Smith has the talent and skill but when all that other crap goes on around you and you're losing and getting killed out there, its easy to just say screw it and give up.
You have to take into consideration that the 49ers just got the pick wrong plain and simple. Obviously playing in Green Bay helps with the system they had there and whatever, but sometimes a player is just better physically and mentally. I'd be hard pressed to say Aaron Rodgers doesn't have that over Alex Smith. If the 49ers took Rodgers he may not have blown up like he is doing in Green Bay, but he might have a least been decent even with all the turnaround and maybe Nolan might even still be employed. Who knows. If Alex Smith went to the Packers he could very well be out of the NFL right now.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Cartwright is a special teamer/backup FB. He's not meant to be the RB. He's meant to block for the RB or be on special teams.

Kaepernick was named the backup QB today and if im Baalke/Harbaugh, I shop both Johnson and Tolzien and whoever gets me the best offer is gone and keep the other as the third stringer.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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You have to take into consideration that the 49ers just got the pick wrong plain and simple. Obviously playing in Green Bay helps with the system they had there and whatever, but sometimes a player is just better physically and mentally. I'd be hard pressed to say Aaron Rodgers doesn't have that over Alex Smith. If the 49ers took Rodgers he may not have blown up like he is doing in Green Bay, but he might have a least been decent even with all the turnaround and maybe Nolan might even still be employed. Who knows. If Alex Smith went to the Packers he could very well be out of the NFL right now.
Yeah, they did and while there's no guarantee either way, I still think that whoever would have ended up in SF would be exactly where Smith is now and that the other would have been where Rodgers is now. Of course, I preferred Rodgers over Smith because he was from Cal but had neither in my top five that year.

Nolan??? I said he sucked since day one and hated that guy from the start. I'll be shocked if he ever gets another HC job.

As for Rodgers being stronger mentally, switch him with Smith and I guarantee you that he wouldnt be. Hell, I dont think that any QB would be after going through what Alex went through here in SF. The main reason he's finally doing good and improving is because of Harbaugh. If Smith can fix his accuracy then I do believe that we can see him guide us to a SB win. Hell, he almost did it last year.

I'm not the biggest Smith fan in the world and hell, wanted him gone like most but after seeing him play with an offensive based HC who used to be a QB, everything changed. Now, if he can just improve his accuracy and they actually take the chains off of him, I'll be a happier camper.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Cartwright is a special teamer/backup FB. He's not meant to be the RB. He's meant to block for the RB or be on special teams.

Kaepernick was named the backup QB today and if im Baalke/Harbaugh, I shop both Johnson and Tolzien and whoever gets me the best offer is gone and keep the other as the third stringer.
Tolzien might actually get you guys a later round pick - He was impressive last preseason with San Diego and has played well this preseason. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back with the Chargers or maybe the Packers if he gets cut or traded.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Cartwright is a special teamer/backup FB. He's not meant to be the RB. He's meant to block for the RB or be on special teams.

Kaepernick was named the backup QB today and if im Baalke/Harbaugh, I shop both Johnson and Tolzien and whoever gets me the best offer is gone and keep the other as the third stringer.
No one's going to trade for a back-up QB they know will be available in a week. I could understand if both had some highly impressive pre-season tape for teams to drool over. But both have just looked "ok" in that regard. No GM is that stupid unfortunately.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Tolzien might actually get you guys a later round pick - He was impressive last preseason with San Diego and has played well this preseason. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back with the Chargers or maybe the Packers if he gets cut or traded.
Except I don't see Tolizen being the odd man out...so do you really see a team giving up anything for JJ? Highly unlikely....
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Meh, you can say the same for Jones, who provides virtually no depth at all at safety but you have him making it over a guy like Thomas, who the coaches have raved about his play and versatility(can play both safety and CB) and with his speed looks to be a excellent gunner on STs from what I saw. Cartwright is a ace STer and can back-up both RB and FB. Like I said, your going to have to do more this year as a fringe player to stick. That's why I have a hard time seeing Jones on this roster. As of now, I would Thomas in over him. Jones is a good STer...but its not like we couldn't get as good of play out of either McBath(who was a good STer in his own right before his injury) or Thomas in the same role. And those guys have a pulse, in terms of being actual depth and contributing down the road as a safety. I've yet to hear one positive word or meaningful play mentioned in association with Jones as a defensive player
Don't disagree. Everyone in red on my list is virtually interchangeable based on what 'I' know. The only exception being L. Davis whom I feel very strongly about being on the team due to a lack of talent behind Staley and A.Davis at OT.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Tolzien might actually get you guys a later round pick - He was impressive last preseason with San Diego and has played well this preseason. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back with the Chargers or maybe the Packers if he gets cut or traded.
I don't think Tolzien would clear waivers, and i agree that GB or SD could place a claim for him. However, i think he'll make it as the #3 QB. Would Josh Johnson get that kind of interest if he was waived? Who knows, but i do think he would probably be the best QB available after all the cuts in September.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, they did and while there's no guarantee either way, I still think that whoever would have ended up in SF would be exactly where Smith is now and that the other would have been where Rodgers is now. Of course, I preferred Rodgers over Smith because he was from Cal but had neither in my top five that year.

Nolan??? I said he sucked since day one and hated that guy from the start. I'll be shocked if he ever gets another HC job.

As for Rodgers being stronger mentally, switch him with Smith and I guarantee you that he wouldnt be. Hell, I dont think that any QB would be after going through what Alex went through here in SF. The main reason he's finally doing good and improving is because of Harbaugh. If Smith can fix his accuracy then I do believe that we can see him guide us to a SB win. Hell, he almost did it last year.

I'm not the biggest Smith fan in the world and hell, wanted him gone like most but after seeing him play with an offensive based HC who used to be a QB, everything changed. Now, if he can just improve his accuracy and they actually take the chains off of him, I'll be a happier camper.
Hold your horses. Our defense almost guided us to a Super Bowl win. It wasn't our offense and it certainly wasn't our passing game. They made their fair share of plays when the unit had to, but if it wasn't for our defense and special teams play with the turnovers and constant good field position giving the offense way more chances than it deserved, we wouldn't have made it to the NFC Championship game and certainly wouldn't have had had 13 wins.

As for your guarantees Dan, don't be surprised if I don't take your word for it. Rodgers may have looked better with McCarthy (since he was here) in his first season than Alex Smith, where you really couldn't do much worse. Even though the team didn't have that much talent, Rodgers may have just been the better quarterback plain and simple from an ability standpoint. As for if the two were switched, there are just way too many variables to come to a concrete conclusion.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Hold your horses. Our defense almost guided us to a Super Bowl win. It wasn't our offense and it certainly wasn't our passing game. They made their fair share of plays when the unit had to, but if it wasn't for our defense and special teams play with the turnovers and constant good field position giving the offense way more chances than it deserved, we wouldn't have made it to the NFC Championship game and certainly wouldn't have had had 13 wins.

As for your guarantees Dan, don't be surprised if I don't take your word for it. Rodgers may have looked better with McCarthy (since he was here) in his first season than Alex Smith, where you really couldn't do much worse. Even though the team didn't have that much talent, Rodgers may have just been the better quarterback plain and simple from an ability standpoint. As for if the two were switched, there are just way too many variables to come to a concrete conclusion.
Yeah, our defense was good as was our special teams and running game but it was Smith who won us the NFC divisional game...not the defense, not the running game, not special teams. It was Smith. Subtract Smith and we get blown out against the Saints because while our defense got turnovers, they still gave up 32 points despite getting those few turnovers. Also, while you can say it was Justin Smith who turned our season around against the Eagles, I say it was Alex who put Justin in that spot to make that play to begin with. If Smith doesnt have the second half that he did, we would have probably been 8-8 or worse and our defense, special teams, running game wouldnt have been as good as it was.

I know you're not a fan of Smith and im not his biggest fan either but give the guy some credit for going through six years of hell in SF and leading us to the championship game. And if our receivers didnt suck, we would have beat the Giants and probably blow them out.

As for Rodgers, I dont think that he would have done any better than Smith because he would have been in the exact same situation. Six different OC's in six years. Two crappy HC's. Best receiver being Bryant and that was for one year. A crappy defense, average at best running game and hell, if it wasnt for Gore, we wouldnt have had a running game either. Smith on the other hand would have sat behind Favre for three years and then start with a loaded as **** offense and a way better OL than we had in those six years.

So while you may think that Rodgers would have won a SB with us or at least been way better than Smith, I dont because he would have been in the same exact situation as Smith was and thus, the results would be the same. You could put a rookie Peyton Manning out there and he would have sucked going through six OC's in six years.

The majority who succeed are those who have continuity and consistency around them year in and year out. Swap our receivers for the Packers receivers and we blow away the Saints, Giants and Patriots last year but our receivers sucked so well, there ya go.

Rodgers got to sat behind one of the best QB's of all time and learned the offense in and out. He wasnt thrown into the fire with crap around him like Smith was. Quite simply, I dont care if it was Rodgers or any other QB instead of Smith, they were destined to fail since the day they were drafted number one overall in 2005.

And sorry if you somehow think that Rodgers would have done better than Smith in the same situation with the same crappy players and coaches around him.

But hey, to each his own bud.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, our defense was good as was our special teams and running game but it was Smith who won us the NFC divisional game...not the defense, not the running game, not special teams. It was Smith. Subtract Smith and we get blown out against the Saints because while our defense got turnovers, they still gave up 32 points despite getting those few turnovers. Also, while you can say it was Justin Smith who turned our season around against the Eagles, I say it was Alex who put Justin in that spot to make that play to begin with. If Smith doesnt have the second half that he did, we would have probably been 8-8 or worse and our defense, special teams, running game wouldnt have been as good as it was.

I know you're not a fan of Smith and im not his biggest fan either but give the guy some credit for going through six years of hell in SF and leading us to the championship game. And if our receivers didnt suck, we would have beat the Giants and probably blow them out.

As for Rodgers, I dont think that he would have done any better than Smith because he would have been in the exact same situation. Six different OC's in six years. Two crappy HC's. Best receiver being Bryant and that was for one year. A crappy defense, average at best running game and hell, if it wasnt for Gore, we wouldnt have had a running game either. Smith on the other hand would have sat behind Favre for three years and then start with a loaded as **** offense and a way better OL than we had in those six years.

So while you may think that Rodgers would have won a SB with us or at least been way better than Smith, I dont because he would have been in the same exact situation as Smith was and thus, the results would be the same. You could put a rookie Peyton Manning out there and he would have sucked going through six OC's in six years.

The majority who succeed are those who have continuity and consistency around them year in and year out. Swap our receivers for the Packers receivers and we blow away the Saints, Giants and Patriots last year but our receivers sucked so well, there ya go.

Rodgers got to sat behind one of the best QB's of all time and learned the offense in and out. He wasnt thrown into the fire with crap around him like Smith was. Quite simply, I dont care if it was Rodgers or any other QB instead of Smith, they were destined to fail since the day they were drafted number one overall in 2005.

And sorry if you somehow think that Rodgers would have done better than Smith in the same situation with the same crappy players and coaches around him.

But hey, to each his own bud.
Right, but who got us to that point in the divisional game though? Who was mainly responsible for winning the first 13 games? It wasn't the offense. I wasn't talking about one game specifically. I'm talking about which units on the team were dominant the majority of the season and put us in the best position to win football games week in and week out.

As for giving Smith credit, I'll say it's about time he did something useful.

Wait where did I say Rodgers would have won us a Super Bowl? Reading comprehension fail.

And why are you apologizing to me in your second to last sentence? What's wrong with you?
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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Right, but who got us to that point in the divisional game though? Who was mainly responsible for winning the first 13 games? It wasn't the offense. I wasn't talking about one game specifically. I'm talking about which units on the team were dominant the majority of the season and put us in the best position to win football games week in and week out.

As for giving Smith credit, I'll say it's about time he did something useful.

Wait where did I say Rodgers would have won us a Super Bowl? Reading comprehension fail.

And why are you apologizing to me in your second to last sentence? What's wrong with you?
Subtract Alex's performance against the Eagles in the second half and no one would even be talking about the defense or going 13-3 because it never would have happened. That game turned around what would have been a 2-2 start as an average at best team.

About time Smith did something useful? Its not his fault he was drafted by morons, had six OC's in six years, two crappy HC's and except for Gore, no talent whatsoever around him. Personally, im shocked he was able to put the first six years of his career behind him and have as good as a season he did last year. Quite honestly, any other QB would have failed too and that includes Montana, Young, Garcia, etc.

You didnt say it but implied it by showing a pic of Rodgers holding the Lombardi trophy and saying...the guy we passed on...whoops as if we would have won the SB if we drafted him instead of Smith.

Rodgers is a great QB but he was also drafted into a situation that was the opposite of Smith and had a far greater chance of succeeding compared to Smith.

I'm not actually apologizing to you. I'm apologizing for you thinking that if Rodgers was drafted instead of Smith, things would have somehow turned out differently for the 49ers. They wouldnt have. Only difference would be that now, you would be saying that Rodgers finally did something useful instead of Smith.
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:57 AM    (permalink
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Subtract Alex's performance against the Eagles in the second half and no one would even be talking about the defense or going 13-3 because it never would have happened. That game turned around what would have been a 2-2 start as an average at best team.

About time Smith did something useful? Its not his fault he was drafted by morons, had six OC's in six years, two crappy HC's and except for Gore, no talent whatsoever around him. Personally, im shocked he was able to put the first six years of his career behind him and have as good as a season he did last year. Quite honestly, any other QB would have failed too and that includes Montana, Young, Garcia, etc.

You didnt say it but implied it by showing a pic of Rodgers holding the Lombardi trophy and saying...the guy we passed on...whoops as if we would have won the SB if we drafted him instead of Smith.

Rodgers is a great QB but he was also drafted into a situation that was the opposite of Smith and had a far greater chance of succeeding compared to Smith.

I'm not actually apologizing to you. I'm apologizing for you thinking that if Rodgers was drafted instead of Smith, things would have somehow turned out differently for the 49ers. They wouldnt have. Only difference would be that now, you would be saying that Rodgers finally did something useful instead of Smith.
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