Offseason Discussion Thread

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

If I was a half decent football player for the Dolphins i'd be demanding a trade right now. As players they are expected to win, but now they are being told to do it whilst the team slowly gets rid of it's best players. I can understand why Reggie Bush and Dansby sound pissed.

Some of us, like BBD, see trading away guys like Marshall and Davis as "taking out the trash." Nevermind the fact that those were two of Miami's best players despite whatever issues they may of had.

I feel like Philbin is trying to turn Miami into the Packers-South but that type of philosophy is just doing more harm than good right now.

[SuperPacker]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Some of us, like BBD, see trading away guys like Marshall and Davis as "taking out the trash." Nevermind the fact that those were two of Miami's best players despite whatever issues they may of had.

I feel like Philbin is trying to turn Miami into the Packers-South but that type of philosophy is just doing more harm than good right now.

Yeah, I see that as a fan and I understand what Philbin is trying to do. He probably just didn't foresee what the rest of the team was going to think about what was happening. I doubt the players care that Davis or Marshall are seen as "garbage", they just want the best players on the team, so that they actually have a chance of winning.

[njx9]

*shrug* if the owner was willing to give me enough time, i'd cut every worthless criminal scumbag with an iq hovering somewhere between breath mint and teaspoon, too. i'll never understand how easily severe character issues can be swept under the rug for completely mediocre players that are easily replaceable.

edit: that team doesn't win a single additional game with brandon marshall and vontae davis than it will without them.

[Giantsfan1080]

Philbin is pulling a Coughlin. It took a while for Coughlin to get the right mix of hard ass/good guy in today's NFL though. Philbin might have to take his foot off the pedal a little.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Philbin is pulling a Coughlin. It took a while for Coughlin to get the right mix of hard ass/good guy in today's NFL though. Philbin might have to take his foot off the pedal a little.

Coughlin had the advantage of a great GM and old-school ownership in NY to help. Philbin has neither of those things in Miami. He has an owner who wants a "superstar" team to compete in-town with the Heat and sell tickets. Barring a miracle, by the time Philbin has the roster the way he wants it, he may be out of a job.

[WCH]

Trading Marshall was predictable. He's a great pickup for the Bears, but he makes no sense for a team that just hired Philbin to be the HC.

[Jvig43]

I think Marshall will have a very productive year with Cutler and the bears. Hes looked pretty decent in the pre season, and he already has some chemistry with Cutler obviously. I think its a bit harsh to say that they wont win an extra game because of him. If the Bears O-line can keep Cutler off the ground I think that Cutler is poised to have one of his best years, and I hate that guy.

EDIT Oh sorry I misread that, duh I see what you were saying now. Stupid me.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by njx9

*shrug* if the owner was willing to give me enough time, i'd cut every worthless criminal scumbag with an iq hovering somewhere between breath mint and teaspoon, too. i'll never understand how easily severe character issues can be swept under the rug for completely mediocre players that are easily replaceable.

edit: that team doesn't win a single additional game with brandon marshall and vontae davis than it will without them.

This^

Oh noes, they traded away Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis! Newsflash, they sucked with them. They can suck without them.

The Dolphins need a complete overhaul, and need players who fit the program. That's how you build a lockerroom. Marshall has borderline personality disorder and is 2 months away from smacking down another woman, and Vontae Davis couldn't spell cat. Oh and he's a solid but not spectacular CB who netted a 2nd round pick for a team that's rebuilding.

Philbin is building the lockerroom by getting rid of anyone who doesn't fit the program. That's what needs to be done. Ever work for a company who's old management/employees were the cause of the company's failures? You know how they clean themselves up? They clean house.

I like what Philbin is doing. He's not their friend, he's their coach. And he's doing what's best for the long term interest of the team.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

This^

Oh noes, they traded away Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis! Newsflash, they sucked with them. They can suck without them.

The Dolphins need a complete overhaul, and need players who fit the program. That's how you build a lockerroom. Marshall has borderline personality disorder and is 2 months away from smacking down another woman, and Vontae Davis couldn't spell cat. Oh and he's a solid but not spectacular CB who netted a 2nd round pick for a team that's rebuilding.

Philbin is building the lockerroom by getting rid of anyone who doesn't fit the program. That's what needs to be done. Ever work for a company who's old management/employees were the cause of the company's failures? You know how they clean themselves up? They clean house.

I like what Philbin is doing. He's not their friend, he's their coach. And he's doing what's best for the long term interest of the team.

And that is going to be a problem for the reasons outlined here:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Coughlin had the advantage of a great GM and old-school ownership in NY to help. Philbin has neither of those things in Miami. He has an owner who wants a "superstar" team to compete in-town with the Heat and sell tickets. Barring a miracle, by the time Philbin has the roster the way he wants it, he may be out of a job.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

And that is going to be a problem for the reasons outlined here:

You don't know that yet. Coughlin almost got fired how many times? Like 5 billion.

He's developing a rookie qb. He'll get at least 3 years to make it work. 3 years in the NFL is an eternity.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

You don't know that yet. Coughlin almost got fired how many times? Like 5 billion.

He's developing a rookie qb. He'll get at least 3 years to make it work. 3 years in the NFL is an eternity.

And the ******* Maras own the team Coughlin coaches. They know how to American Football and have for a few generations now.

Stephen Ross wants a team that will make headlines and put asses in the seats. Right now that team is as boring as can be, and that's with them already having struggled to sell out the last few years.

If he didn't inherit the last staff like he did, I don't think they would have lasted as long as they did.

If Philbin wants to clear out the potential troublemakers, that's his call. But he's no longer on the Packers. And this isn't the Steelers or the Giants. Dolphin fans may be the 2nd most fair-weather group in the league after only the Chargers. And Ross doesn't come from a family who has been in the football business for several generations. I think he lacks the patience and future sight that the ownership of the more stable franchises have.

Philbin may get the 3 years you're giving him, but this team is lousy. Top 5 pick this upcoming year lousy. And if Tannehill isn't worth a damn, they'll continue to be lousy. And he's going to be fired for it.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

And the ******* Maras own the team Coughlin coaches. They know how to American Football and have for a few generations now.

Stephen Ross wants a team that will make headlines and put asses in the seats. Right now that team is as boring as can be, and that's with them already having struggled to sell out the last few years.

If he didn't inherit the last staff like he did, I don't think they would have lasted as long as they did.

If Philbin wants to clear out the potential troublemakers, that's his call. But he's no longer on the Packers. And this isn't the Steelers or the Giants. Dolphin fans may be the 2nd most fair-weather group in the league after only the Chargers. And Ross doesn't come from a family who has been in the football business for several generations. I think he lacks the patience and future sight that the ownership of the more stable franchises have.

Philbin may get the 3 years you're giving him, but this team is lousy. Top 5 pick this upcoming year lousy. And if Tannehill isn't worth a damn, they'll continue to be lousy. And he's going to be fired for it.

Teams can turn it around so quickly, it usually just takes a good year and a half to overhaul an entire roster. His team sucks, and he knows it. Instead of trying to be a mediocre 8-8 and get stuck in football purgatory for 3 years while maintaining that mediocre record throughout his tenior, he's better off cleaning house and starting fresh, and hope that they develop the program properly. It's the right move.

Bottom line is if he doesn't develop his qb he's fired regardless. So why not rebuild the right way around an impressionable rookie?

All these veterans who are bitching, they can all **** off. They either suck or are mediocre anyway.

[dan77733]

Dolphins should trade Dansby and Bush for the highest draft picks they can get and just go into full all out rebuilding mode. I dont know who's on their DL but if they're still running the 3-4, I would keep Wake and build the LB core around him and the DB core around Smith. Offensively, build up that OL around Long, and just go from there.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Philbin may get the 3 years you're giving him, but this team is lousy. Top 5 pick this upcoming year lousy. And if Tannehill isn't worth a damn, they'll continue to be lousy. And he's going to be fired for it.

and vontae davis being on the team wouldn't have changed that. neither would brandon marshall. or chad johnson. or any of the other garbage the team has parted with. if tannehill is crap, *none* of it matters. if tannehill is awesome, *none* of it matters. and if he's mediocre, losing mediocre, unmarketable players doesn't matter. in short: losing vontae davis and brandon marshall in no way whatsoever makes this team less marketable or more boring. this is not randy moss 8 years ago. this is not mike vick as a rookie. this is not deion sanders at any point in his career. these are mediocre to slightly above average players, at least one of which is one bad day from spending some time in prison. i still don't understand at all what the big deal is here.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by njx9

and vontae davis being on the team wouldn't have changed that. neither would brandon marshall. or chad johnson. or any of the other garbage the team has parted with. if tannehill is crap, *none* of it matters. if tannehill is awesome, *none* of it matters. and if he's mediocre, losing mediocre, unmarketable players doesn't matter. in short: losing vontae davis and brandon marshall in no way whatsoever makes this team less marketable or more boring. this is not randy moss 8 years ago. this is not mike vick as a rookie. this is not deion sanders at any point in his career. these are mediocre to slightly above average players, at least one of which is one bad day from spending some time in prison. i still don't understand at all what the big deal is here.

Me either. Chad Johnson and Vontae Davis seemed like growing liabilities for the Dolphins and it didn't appear as if any upside they were going to have was going to outweigh the negative and work out with the team. Might as well either move on or acquire a draft pick for someone that could possibly make a bigger impact for them. I support Philbin in this case.

[killxswitch]

I think the legend of Davis the team pariah is growing exponentially. He reportedly showed up to a team meeting with alcohol on his breath. BFD. I think the real problem is that he's a southern goofball that celebrates after big plays and Regis Philbin the Sunday school teacher doesn't like it. I mean have you seen this guy on Hard Knocks? He is to Tom Coughlin what Jim Caldwell was to Tony Dungy. Same style but not nearly as effective. And Coughlin wasn't actually successful til he calmed the **** down a bit and learned to work with his players more. It isn't going to work. Players are not going to respond to his finger-waggling coaching style. The best coaches can manage big weird personalities and make them produce anyway.

[dolphinfan2k5]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I think the legend of Davis the team pariah is growing exponentially. He reportedly showed up to a team meeting with alcohol on his breath. BFD. I think the real problem is that he's a southern goofball that celebrates after big plays and Regis Philbin the Sunday school teacher doesn't like it. I mean have you seen this guy on Hard Knocks? He is to Tom Coughlin what Jim Caldwell was to Tony Dungy. Same style but not nearly as effective. And Coughlin wasn't actually successful til he calmed the **** down a bit and learned to work with his players more. It isn't going to work. Players are not going to respond to his finger-waggling coaching style. The best coaches can manage big weird personalities and make them produce anyway.

IIRC, he showed up to a practice smelling like alcohol and Marshall chucked a football at him. Can't remember for sure though.

[Bert Macklin]

@realfreemancbs 
Memo sent from league office today to all NFL teams: replacement refs will start regular season. More to come.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by Bert Macklin

@realfreemancbs
Memo sent from league office today to all NFL teams: replacement refs will start regular season. More to come.

This will be fun. Let's hope the first big mess up isn't in the Giants/Cowboys game.

[BeerBaron]

Eh, we knew it was coming. Was only a matter of time until it was made official.

Like I've said before, if you were watching one of the games and weren't told that the officials were replacements, would you really be able to tell a difference? Even the regular officials make flat out stupid mistakes. Everyone has just been playing closer attention now that they know the officials are replacements.

[K Train]

eh it was preseason for them too, i dont think it will really make a difference. Real refs suck much of the time, replacement ones are probably the same

[njx9]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Even the regular officials make flat out stupid mistakes. Everyone has just been playing closer attention now that they know the officials are replacements.

this. the regular officials were horrific last year. in some games, you could've swapped the cheerleaders and refs and not seen any discernible difference in officiating. until the league actually holds refs accountable for ******* up a game/a call, you could trot out pop warner refs and do just about as well.

[Scotty D]

The one thing I like about the replacement refs is they seem to not call a lot of the ticky tack calls in the secondary. At least in the games I've seen.

[Giantsfan1080]

In the Giants/Bears game last week they had an untimed down at the end of the 1st quarter. I've never seen that kind of mistake before. I hope they do well.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by njx9

this. the regular officials were horrific last year. in some games, you could've swapped the cheerleaders and refs and not seen any discernible difference in officiating. until the league actually holds refs accountable for ******* up a game/a call, you could trot out pop warner refs and do just about as well.

The league obviously isn't willing to do this given the current situation, but I think they need to make all of the refs full time employees and train them year round. During the offseason, they can review games, get tested, monitor practices, etc. etc.

And while they never announce it, the league office supposedly does critique the officials. But it doesn't help that they then go out an announce immediately after that they "stand by his call" and that BS.

And I'm not talking like, the Calvin Johnson rule either. I'm talking actual mistakes, not just enforcing dumb rules. For instance, the non-fumble fumble from the Packers/Giants playoff game was one of the most greivous I've ever seen. It even held up after review iirc. A lot of people bitched (it would have been a bigger deal if the Giants didn't go on to win) but the league off stood by the calls saying that he was down by contact because the outside part of his foot was on the ground when he lost control of the ball.

Holy dear christ, if that means a player is down by contact, every agile RB would be down by contact as soon as a defender graced him with their fingertips.

But that might just be Bill Leavy. Only the top officials are supposed to be selected for post season games and that guy has been the ref for the two worst officiated games I've ever witnessed.