New York Giants Discussion

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

And that's why you have the kneel now. The Bucs players themselves didn't seem too happy about doing it. So thats all the info you need in my opinion.

If it was common practice and the offense was actually prepared for it, it would be one thing. But diving at the O-line's legs like that was pretty weak. That's just not a contested play in the NFL. Never has been and probably never will be.

It will be now. I fully expect the Bucs to do it again and I expect other teams to do it to them. You play to win the game. You don't quit or give up. Ever.

You may have missed what Roy Miller said: "I'll do anything for that coach. I believe in everything he coaches. We prepare for every situation."

You also may have missed what Mike Ditka said: "Tom's wrong about this. You never go out with the intent to hurt anybody, but you do try to get the ball. As soon as the center snaps the ball, you try to create a fumble. Who knows what can happen, as crazy as the game is today? The game's still going on. Greg Schiano is bringing a different temperament to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and I like what he's doing. I really do. They're going to be a good team, because they do the little things. This is not a popularity contest -- he doesn't care what Tom Coughlin thinks of him."

In fact, the only people I've heard crying about this are the Giants, their fans and Deion Sanders.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by Legacy

Right... Just because it has never worked in an NFL game means it's never going to work ever.

In case you've forgotten, games in the NFL have been decided by last second fumbles before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ML1Ixd3jiGU

That's why the kneel down in victory formation is used so that we don't have to happen again. If you want to strengthen that example fine a situation where the QB fumbled on a kneel down in victory formation AND the team won that way. If that happened that cool, I'd stand corrected and praise Schiano for it.

And I have seen national guys who hated this too. People our MB who have access to sirus and other national outlets have posted on this. I think it's a split issue to tell you the truth.

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

I just didn't like Schiano's explanation of it. He said that the team fights for 60 minutes and so on.

Before half time, we were on our 8 yard line while the Bucs had a 11 point lead. Why didn't they do that then? That would make the most sense if one buys that BS. If they somehow score, they go into half time with a 18 point lead instead of a 11 point lead.

You talk about playing hard and fighting all game, yet you let us score. Yeah it's a strategic move to get the ball back. But that's basically saying our defense can't stop you NOR can it force a turnover. We had a rb who never played in a real game, and yet they didn't feel confident to stop him or cause a turnover.

YET, when the game is basically done they decide to pull that thing on a kneel down. It's not going to work first off, but if the logic is fight all game for 60 minutes, then do that when we are on our 8 yard line! Be consistent at least. Was it because they had the lead? Now they are losing so take your frustration out on us that way?

It's not an illegal move by any means, but I hated Schiano's logic behind that.

Cmon, man... Is it really that hard to figure out? If the Bucs defense hadn't let the Giants score their final touchdown, the G-Men simply would have run the clock down and kicked a chip-shot field goal.

And the reason the Giants didn't try to force a fumble before halftime is most coaches don't have the stones to attempt what Schiano told his defense to do. Don't kid yourself; every coach has considered it at some point, but none of them have the courage to break that "unwritten rule."

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

That's why the kneel down in victory formation is used so that we don't have to happen again. If you want to strengthen that example fine a situation where the QB fumbled on a kneel down in victory formation AND the team won that way. If that happened that cool, I'd stand corrected and praise Schiano for it.

Perhaps you missed the link to the Troy-Oklahoma State game I posted directly before that. It has worked before. The fact that it hasn't worked in the NFL isn't even relevant to the discussion.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Legacy

Perhaps you missed the link to the Troy-Oklahoma State game I posted directly before that. It has worked before. The fact that it hasn't worked in the NFL isn't even relevant to the discussion.

Of course it is. If we include college that's thousands of games a year. With those thousands of games there's still only one example of it ever actually happening.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by Legacy

It will be now. I fully expect the Bucs to do it again and I expect other teams to do it to them. You play to win the game. You don't quit or give up. Ever.

You may have missed what Roy Miller said: "I'll do anything for that coach. I believe in everything he coaches. We prepare for every situation."

You also may have missed what Mike Ditka said: "Tom's wrong about this. You never go out with the intent to hurt anybody, but you do try to get the ball. As soon as the center snaps the ball, you try to create a fumble. Who knows what can happen, as crazy as the game is today? The game's still going on. Greg Schiano is bringing a different temperament to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and I like what he's doing. I really do. They're going to be a good team, because they do the little things. This is not a popularity contest -- he doesn't care what Tom Coughlin thinks of him."

In fact, the only people I've heard crying about this are the Giants, their fans and Deion Sanders.

I don't expect anyone else to do it. I do expect teams to retaliate other ways however. But the only time a team will see him again is a if it is a division opponent.

Who the F is Roy Miller? McCoy didn't seem happy about it. I saw a few quotes that all said "ask the coach" or "we're just doing what we're told to".

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by Legacy

Perhaps you missed the link to the Troy-Oklahoma State game I posted directly before that. It has worked before. The fact that it hasn't worked in the NFL isn't even relevant to the discussion.

No it isn't it's the NFL not college. Those college antics aren't going to work. If and I mean IF that works in the NFL, then fine, I have NO issue saying, hey Schiano is a visionary in trying it. I am a fan of his and Rutgers which is the irony of it all. But that won't work in the NFL.

Cmon, man... Is it really that hard to figure out? If the Bucs defense hadn't let the Giants score their final touchdown, the G-Men simply would have run the clock down and kicked a chip-shot field goal.

And the reason the Giants didn't try to force a fumble before halftime is most coaches don't have the stones to attempt what Schiano told his defense to do. Don't kid yourself; every coach has considered it at some point, but none of them have the courage to break that "unwritten rule."

Run the clock out with a guy who has ZERO NFL experience. And yes I get the strategy element of it, but for a guy who said never give up play 60 minutes hard, that's the irony. Why not try to get the rookie to fumble? Who said a chip shot FG is automatic?

Remember Tony Romo in the playoffs against Seattle, in Seattle? Then you have a missed FG by Cundiff last season too. Guys can miss FGs or get them blocked.

I mean why didn't GS try it on us before half time. That would be the most ideal time with us backed up. Imagine if it worked, you would have an 18 point lead rather than an 11 point lead.

It's an idiotic move, and if he keeps that up he will get himself blacklisted among the NFL coaches. I have been around NFL coaches, and they hate that. Not specifically that particular move, but in a general sense breaking unwritten rules like that. NFL coaches are a close knit fraternity and I got the chance to be around them and talk to them. Guys who rock the boat like that can find themselves on the outside, especially if they get fired. That's why you try to burn any bridges because one day that coach you got mad may have a chance to hire you if you get fired.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I don't expect anyone else to do it. I do expect teams to retaliate other ways however. But the only time a team will see him again is a if it is a division opponent.

Who the F is Roy Miller? McCoy didn't seem happy about it. I saw a few quotes that all said "ask the coach" or "we're just doing what we're told to".

Jug, their own players were almost ashamed to do it. They even called it a cheap shot, lol.

New York Giants

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Sean Locklear: "One of the guys said after the play (final play), “It’s a cheap shot, but coach told us to do it.”

"You could look on their faces, it was one of those things where they didn’t want to do it but you do what you’re told," Locklear said. about a minute ago

[Giantsfan1080]

It's a not a big deal from either side. It's the media creating a storm for nothing. Coughlin shouldn't have ran his mouth and Schiano probably shouldn't of called for it. I hate this dumb stuff.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

It's a not a big deal from either side. It's the media creating a storm for nothing. Coughlin shouldn't have ran his mouth and Schiano probably shouldn't of called for it. I hate this dumb stuff.

It certainly was dirty. It wasn't like they stood up and just played aggressively like a normal play. It was the way they dove at the legs of the O-lineman. You don't even see that on "regular" downs.

[Giantsfan1080]

I don't care I just want it to go away. I like actual football discussion not this garbage. It's like the Prince video.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

I don't care I just want it to go away. I like actual football discussion not this garbage. It's like the Prince video.

Well this did occur on the football field. If this is going to be standard practice for the Bucs, why didn't they do it when they were up and we backed up closer the end zone at the end of the first half?

[Giantsfan1080]

Use it as a surprise? I have no idea. I don't know what Schiano is thinking. I will say we never did this at Rutgers though.

[Forenci]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Use it as a surprise? I have no idea. I don't know what Schiano is thinking. I will say we never did this at Rutgers though.

Which makes me question it even more. You're so for playing to the last second, why didn't you do this in college?

That's why this pisses me off. It seems to be Schiano was just butt hurt over his coveted defense getting torched and giving up the game winner that he tried to play dirty and get his revenge. You don't go at the knees of linemen. That's horse ****.

[Giantsfan1080]

No that's something Schiano would do. He really thought this was a good thing. He's not dirty/classless and he's certainly not butthurt.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Well this did occur on the football field. If this is going to be standard practice for the Bucs, why didn't they do it when they were up and we backed up closer the end zone at the end of the first half?

Exactly! It's inconsistent with his explanation of fighting for 60 minutes and not giving up. Ok, cool, then when you have an 11 point lead and have the opposing team backed on their 8 yard line or so, then why not do that then? After all you want to play hard, and yada, yada, yada. So do that then. You have a shot then to go up 18 points and get the ball back 2nd half.

Instead they chose to do it when they were losing. If Schiano's going to say what he said then be consistent. Do that when we were about to kneel down on our 8 yard line. Then I understand it, though not agree with it. Yeah this guy wants to go all out, but he did it twice and was consistent about it. Not when he was losing or about to lose with 2 seconds.

[BigBlueNorwegian]

Well, Schiano said today that his players successfully caused fumbles multiple time during his days as a Rutgers coach. Is that true, GF1080 and Scotty?

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by BigBlueNorwegian

Well, Schiano said today that his players successfully caused fumbles multiple time during his days as a Rutgers coach. Is that true, GF1080 and Scotty?

I don't remember even one instance where he pulled this move.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

I don't remember even one instance where he pulled this move.

Someone on BBI said he tried it against WVU and was only successful is getting 2 offsides penalties trying to jump the snap.

[bucfan12]

@RealSkipBayless: Antonio Pierce said on First Take, as Giants LB, went all out 5 or 6 times vs. a kneel-down, his coaches never scolded him. Listening, Tom?

Per twitter.com

[Giantsfan1080]

Schiano is all about class and doing the right thing so it is weird that he called for it. I don't know I still don't care either way about it. We got the W in awesome fashion so that's all I'm thinking about.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Per twitter.com

I don't recall that either. But Antonio was a dirty player so I wouldn't be surprised if he did it on his own. He certainly hit enough people late. He's also in the business of making statements to get attention like most people at ESPN these days.

[bigbluedefense]

I don't ever recall Pierce doing that.

Anyway, who cares. It's over and done with. Let's talk about football, not this nonsense.

I love Schianno. This doesn't change my impression of him. He's a damn good football coach and the Bucs will thrive under him.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I don't ever recall Pierce doing that.

Anyway, who cares. It's over and done with. Let's talk about football, not this nonsense.

I love Schianno. This doesn't change my impression of him. He's a damn good football coach and the Bucs will thrive under him.

Agreed 100%. How are we going to contain Cam this Thursday?

[Forenci]

I'm a UConn fan so I'm bias, but too will let it go.

The short week kills us. Will Prince, Hosley and company be ready? We're going to need them to step up big time if they are good to go. Have we been using Rolle as a nickel at all? I feel like that would be prudent considering we have far greater safety depth than we have corner depth.