Week 3 Discussion Thread

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by Ness

Really? I think you're just plain obnoxious with that nonsense. And it's not like Rutgers is playing for a national championship every year. I'd be one thing if you were blowing up LSU or Alabama. But Rutgers? Meh.

oh well, can't please 'em all.

oh, and YOU'RE WELCOME FOR ANTHONY DAVIS

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

It is Eli Manning, just using his first six seasons. Not exactly a balanced comparison because you are comparing Eli's six seasons with eight seasons of Alex Smith. Plus you are projecting numbers for Smith.

It isn't my comparison and yes, it is Eli through his first 87 starts versus Alex Smith through his first 82 starts, projecting until the end of the year. The person who did the comparison projected around 300/475, 3500 yards, 24-28 touchdowns, 5-10 interceptions, a 12-4 record and 2-4 fourth quarter comebacks for Smith this year. I, personally, don't think those numbers are going to be too far off.

seriously stop with this compare qb A with qb B. It took Alex forever and a competent coach to get here.

Game manager vs Game Winner.

I don't know why you say that. They have a similar record, about the same amount fourth quarter comebacks, pretty much the same average defensive rank and Eli had the much better running game.

I can do the same thing

QB A:
59% completion
12005 Yards
77 TD
46 INT
28-28 record

QB B:
54.6% completion
11385 yards
77 TD
64 INT
30-25 record

Seems pretty similar right? You might even say QB A is the better QB. Well... QB A is Matt Cassell (56 career starts). QB B is Eli Manning in his first 55 starts.

You could definitely argue that Cassel's first 56 starts were as good as Eli's, though. Well you could at least if no one told you that Cassel continued to get worse while Eli continued to (mostly) improve during that span.

Stats taken in a vacuum are not a good way to evaluate things. I mean, take this as an example

QB A

3348/5398 63.9% 40,531 yards 303TDs 116INTs

QB B

354/680 52.1% 4083 yards 18TDs 23INTs


QB A is Tom Brady while QB B is Jamarcus Russell, however no one is going to argue Brady is better than Russell, I mean, Russell was the #1 pick after all

I don't really understand this. QB A is massively better.

I hated the anonymous stats last year, and hate them even more this year.

If I had said that Alex Smith was almost as good as Eli Manning through their first ~85 starts what would have happened?

Look, I am not saying that Alex Smith is anywhere near the level Eli is currently at. Eli is a top 4-8 QB, Smith might barely squeeze into the top 14. Eli has won two Super Bowls, Smith hasn't even been to one. The point is to compare the beginnings of their careers, which are very similar. If the 49ers somehow do win the Super Bowl this year then they would be even more similar. They would have nearly identical stats through their first ~85 starts, one Super Bowl win each and guess how old Eli was after his 87th start? 29. Guess how old Alex Smith will be after his 82nd start at the end of this year? 29. I am not saying that Alex Smith is going to be Eli Manning, either. I just thought it interesting how similar their numbers were after about the same amount of starts

[WCH]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

It is not. Only one of those QBs is Alex Smith

Neither of those is Alex Smith.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitAl03.htm

Also, it's not a given that he'll throw 30 TD passes, given the fact that hes never even come close to doing it before. That's a moron projection.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by WCH

Neither of those is Alex Smith.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitAl03.htm

This is why anonymous stats suck.

See above post. He is projecting Alex Smith's stats for this year

300/475
3500 yards
26 TD
8 INT
12-4 record
Three fourth quarter comebacks

[K Train]

id just like to say i dont think they are really that different. If you put #1 pick eli on the niners and **** with his coordinators and coaches for 7 straight years eli might be finally turning the corner as well.

Same thing with smith, maybe he could handle the pressure of NY throughout his struggles, he did handle a lot of scrutiny in SF and handled it pretty well, maybe he struggled at first and they kept plugging along with him. I mean im pretty impressed with the way smith is commanding the offense right now, but eli has been working at gaining control of that team since 2004 hes a master of that offense, smith is getting his first taste of familiarity

Same argument can be made for aaron rodgers and alex smith...put rodgers on the 9ers in 05 he is not the QB he is now...he was AWFUL backing up favre and he was made of glass. He takes over one year and does some good things and by year 2 hes a master of the position, a very familiar position/system he was in for multiple years.

its fun to debate and speculate, but really all this leads to is hurt feelings

[Ness]

Well what matters is now. And both quarterbacks are playing pretty well currently. Not sure what a statistics comparison needs to be made. Alex Smith had a ****** deal his first six years in the league. Finally he has a good coaching staff that is actually helping him out.

[ImBrotherCain]

Ugh this just made me think of that horrible Alex Smith vs Alex Smith thread... I want to go hang myself right now.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Ness

Really? I think you're just plain obnoxious with that nonsense. And it's not like Rutgers is playing for a national championship every year. I'd be one thing if you were blowing up LSU or Alabama. But Rutgers? Meh.

This is why people don't like you.

[njx9]

lol stats comparisons. because we all know that numbers mean everything, especially in a vacuum and especially when you ignore reality.

i just got the strangest sense of deja vu.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by ImBrotherCain

Ugh this just made me think of that horrible Alex Smith vs Alex Smith thread... I want to go hang myself right now.

I still don't understand what people disliked about that thread so much. If I had created a thread saying that Alex Smith after the Eagles game in 2010 was just as good as he was the first half of 2011 people would have laughed or ignored it without even bothering to look at the stats. Because everyone knows that Alex Smith only turned it around because of Harbaugh.

This argument is the same thing. If I had said that Alex Smith's first 82 starts were as good as Eli Manning's people would have laughed or ignored the stats. Because everyone knows Alex Smith sucks.

Looking at just the stats, including team record and stats from the rest of the team, is the only objective way to look at quarterbacks. I cannot mention Alex Smith and get people to objectively discuss his performance because, as I said, everyone knows Alex Smith sucks

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by njx9

lol stats comparisons. because we all know that numbers mean everything, especially in a vacuum and especially when you ignore reality.

i just got the strangest sense of deja vu.

What reality is being ignored? Just curious.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

I still don't understand what people disliked about that thread so much. If I had created a thread saying that Alex Smith after the Eagles game in 2010 was just as good as he was the first half of 2011 people would have laughed or ignored it without even bothering to look at the stats. Because everyone knows that Alex Smith only turned it around because of Harbaugh.

This argument is the same thing. If I had said that Alex Smith's first 82 starts were as good as Eli Manning's people would have laughed or ignored the stats. Because everyone knows Alex Smith sucks.

Looking at just the stats, including team record and stats from the rest of the team, is the only objective way to look at quarterbacks. I cannot mention Alex Smith and get people to objectively discuss his performance because, as I said, everyone knows Alex Smith sucks

To be fair, you'd deserve to get laughed at because similar stats do nothing to prove your statement. Looking at just stats is the most ******** way to look at quarterbacks.

[ImBrotherCain]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

I still don't understand what people disliked about that thread so much. If I had created a thread saying that Alex Smith after the Eagles game in 2010 was just as good as he was the first half of 2011 people would have laughed or ignored it without even bothering to look at the stats. Because everyone knows that Alex Smith only turned it around because of Harbaugh.

This argument is the same thing. If I had said that Alex Smith's first 82 starts were as good as Eli Manning's people would have laughed or ignored the stats. Because everyone knows Alex Smith sucks.

Looking at just the stats, including team record and stats from the rest of the team, is the only objective way to look at quarterbacks. I cannot mention Alex Smith and get people to objectively discuss his performance because, as I said, everyone knows Alex Smith sucks

Why is it necessary to point this out? No one really cares that Alex Smith's stats resemble Eli's for their first 82 starts.

Football is so much more than just stats but you want to confine it to a small subsection of the game that only matters to Fantasy Football players and people who want to drum up wild comparisons. I mean who really cares who threw the most touchdowns with their opposite hand in a Superbowl while the earth was attacked by a sentient race of super machines called reapers. Not many people that is who.

Sure most of us have seen growth and maturation in Smith but it is not only because of his numbers. Use stats to enhance arguments don't use stats to make arguments.

[Raiderz4Life]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I hated the anonymous stats last year, and hate them even more this year.

I'm with you on this one.

[Bengals78]

my favorite part about anonymous stats?
how much they bother some of you

[NY+Giants=NYG]

I hate this scheduling. Starting on a wed, then sunday, and now a thurs night. This game is going to be a mess, playing so soon.

[Raiderz4Life]

**** that sstupid alex smith vss himself thread.

Dumbest **** ever.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

To be fair, you'd deserve to get laughed at because similar stats do nothing to prove your statement. Looking at just stats is the most ******** way to look at quarterbacks.

Why is it necessary to point this out? No one really cares that Alex Smith's stats resemble Eli's for their first 82 starts.

Football is so much more than just stats but you want to confine it to a small subsection of the game that only matters to Fantasy Football players and people who want to drum up wild comparisons. I mean who really cares who threw the most touchdowns with their opposite hand in a Superbowl while the earth was attacked by a sentient race of super machines called reapers. Not many people that is who.

Sure most of us have seen growth and maturation in Smith but it is not only because of his numbers. Use stats to enhance arguments don't use stats to make arguments.

You are acting like all I did was give the quarterback's numbers. I gave their stats, their team's record, their team's performance outside of the QB position and even put in fourth quarter comebacks.

Like I already said, if I just said that Smith through 82 starts was as good as Eli through 87 starts how many people would have just dismissed it without even bother to looking at the stats? Most of them

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Bengals78

my favorite part about anonymous stats?
how much they bother some of you

When that is the strongest argument you can make, you've got a weak argument.

[bucfan12]

I think it's proper if you draft a qb round 1 you give him 5 years. A lot of guys don't pan out right away. Like seriously Ben Roethlisbuerger didn't really progress as the passer he is now until his 4th/5th year. He was a game manager.

Manning didn't hit his stride til his 4th/5th year.

Too many give up on a guy after 2-3 years. Heck even Peyton manning three a ton of ints up to his 4th year. I think it was like 20 ?

[Bengals78]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

When that is the strongest argument you can make, you've got a weak argument.

I know it is. I think they're dumb.
But I like the chuckle I get when the debates start.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

When that is the strongest argument you can make, you've got a weak argument.

Just tell me what would have happened if I labeled the post Alex Smith through 82 starts vs. Eli Manning through 87 starts? I would have taken more heat than I am for trying to do it anonymously. There is no winning when trying to talk about Alex Smith because the preconceived notions of him sucking without Harbaugh and only being a game manager with him are so deep in people's minds that you cannot get them to talk about him objectively

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

This is why people don't like you.

Actually a lot of people like me. Please keep your falsehoods to yourself.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

You are acting like all I did was give the quarterback's numbers. I gave their stats, their team's record, their team's performance outside of the QB position and even put in fourth quarter comebacks.

Like I already said, if I just said that Smith through 82 starts was as good as Eli through 87 starts how many people would have just dismissed it without even bother to looking at the stats? Most of them

It's ludicrous argument so what do the stats matter? If you just wanted to present a useless factoid that'd be one thing, but you seem to think these prove anything other than how desperately you want Alex Smith not to be a middle of the road starting QB, which they don't.

Originally Posted by Ness

Actually a lot of people like me. Please keep your falsehoods to yourself.

I'm calling shenanigans on this one.

[Splat]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-in-san-diego/

On Sunday, the 2-0 Falcons face the 2-0 Chargers in San Diego. And the game won’t be televised live in Southern California.

Earlier this week, the Chargers announced that more than 11,000 tickets remained. It’s unknown how close (or not) the Chargers came to selling enough seats to lift the curtain.

Should be a great game to...