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Old 09-25-2012, 08:41 AM    (permalink
Jvig43
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
The refs were just as bad in the Packers/Giants playoff game last year but certainly not the same outrage.
Agreed, they were doing everything in their power to give the Packers that game. I will say that the reason people didn't make as much noise about it was because the Giants won, not because they were the real refs tho.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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I have a feeling if the Pack somehow won that game then the outrage from everyone would still be less than this.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
I have a feeling if the Pack somehow won that game then the outrage from everyone would still be less than this.
As it should be.

This one is such a huge deal because the call directly decided the game and they got it wrong. If they call it correctly the Packers would have won; if they call it incorrectly, as they did, the Seahawks win. The game was in the refs' hands and they blew it. Not the same as just making bad calls during the game - which they did as well.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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If the Replacement Refs are the reason Gene Hackman comes out of retirement to shoot another movie then thank God for their incompetence.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Goodell has the power to overturn the result but we all know that's not going to happen.


Section 2 Extraordinarily Unfair Acts

COMMISSIONER AUTHORITY

Article 1 The Commissioner has the sole authority to investigate and take appropriate disciplinary and/or corrective measures if any club action, non-participant interference, or calamity occurs in an NFL game which he deems so extraordinarily unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of the game.

NO CLUB PROTESTS

Article 2 The authority and measures provided for in this entire Section 2 do not constitute a protest machinery for NFL clubs to avail themselves of in the event a dispute arises over the result of a game. The investigation called for in this Section 2 will be conducted solely on the Commissioner’s initiative to review an act or occurrence that he deems so extraordinary or unfair that the result of the game in question would be inequitable to one of the participating teams. The Commissioner will not apply his authority in cases of complaints by clubs concerning judgmental errors or routine errors of omission by game officials. Games involving such complaints will continue to stand as completed.

PENALTIES FOR UNFAIR ACTS

Article 3 The Commissioner’s powers under this Section 2 include the imposition of monetary fines and draft-choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved in unfair acts, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified in Rule 17, Section 1, Articles 5 through 11, above. In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedure he deems appropriate.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Alex View Post


GET 'EM PRES! GET 'EM!
AT THIS JUNCTURE OF ALL JUNCTURES THE BIBLICAL BEATDOWN THAT THE REPLACEMENT REFS ARE PUTTING ON THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME CAN NOT BE TOLERATED
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
Goodell has the power to overturn the result but we all know that's not going to happen.


Section 2 Extraordinarily Unfair Acts

COMMISSIONER AUTHORITY

Article 1 The Commissioner has the sole authority to investigate and take appropriate disciplinary and/or corrective measures if any club action, non-participant interference, or calamity occurs in an NFL game which he deems so extraordinarily unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of the game.

NO CLUB PROTESTS

Article 2 The authority and measures provided for in this entire Section 2 do not constitute a protest machinery for NFL clubs to avail themselves of in the event a dispute arises over the result of a game. The investigation called for in this Section 2 will be conducted solely on the Commissionerís initiative to review an act or occurrence that he deems so extraordinary or unfair that the result of the game in question would be inequitable to one of the participating teams. The Commissioner will not apply his authority in cases of complaints by clubs concerning judgmental errors or routine errors of omission by game officials. Games involving such complaints will continue to stand as completed.

PENALTIES FOR UNFAIR ACTS

Article 3 The Commissionerís powers under this Section 2 include the imposition of monetary fines and draft-choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved in unfair acts, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a gameís result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified in Rule 17, Section 1, Articles 5 through 11, above. In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedure he deems appropriate.
Of course it won't happen. It would just create more chaos for the league
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I saw this as it was happening and shook my head. Seriously. I'm not up on rules as to when you need to throw your hat in the field, but who does it way in the field of play, literally directly at the WR's feet? How do you find a way to do that? It looks ike he did it on purpose too, it was 1 foot in front of him running his route.
I remember someone saying on ESPN that ref's will throw their hats to mark where someone went out of bounds, but clearly no one went out of bounds in that play.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Listen, I'm not defending the replacement refs but I have little confidence the real refs would have made the right call there in real time with no video review.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Listen, I'm not defending the replacement refs but I have little confidence the real refs would have made the right call there in real time with no video review.
One of the replacement refs got it right, I don't see why the regular refs wouldn't.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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The NFL says the refs should have called PI on Tate but made the correct decision not to overturn the ruling of a simultaneous catch.



Editor's note: The following is a statement issued by the NFL regarding Golden Tate 's game-winning touchdown catch at the conclusion of Monday night's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks :

In Monday's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks , Seattle faced a 4th-and-10 from the Green Bay 24 with eight seconds remaining in the game.

Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone. Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings , jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.

While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

The result of the game is final.


Applicable rules to the play are as follows:

A player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch listed here.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book defines a catch:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and (b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and (c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.). When a player (or players) is going to the ground in the attempt to catch a pass, Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 states:

Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:

Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

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Old 09-25-2012, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how its simultaneous possession. Jennings clearly had the ball first, Tate doesn't have control over the ball. The ball becomes pinned to Jenning's chest.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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The big problem in all of this is that people are starting to seriously wonder if games are being rigged. I've read that somewhere between $250 Million and $1 Billion changed hands during last nights game alone, so a bought replacement ref could probably make some nice bank.

I absolutely, 100% do not think that games are being pushed one way or another, but the NFL sure as hell doesn't want people going on ESPN and seriously talking about that possibility.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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The big problem in all of this is that people are starting to seriously wonder if games are being rigged. I've read that somewhere between $250 Million and $1 Billion changed hands during last nights game alone, so a bought replacement ref could probably make some nice bank.

I absolutely, 100% do not think that games are being pushed one way or another, but the NFL sure as hell doesn't want people going on ESPN and seriously talking about that possibility.
Seriously, how does he signal touchdown without consulting any of the other referees; can you really be that negligent to common sense? Not to mention the pass interference where Sidney Rice groped the **** out of the corner on 1st and 30 that was basically a get out of jail free card. It's easy to say that they are just grossly incompetent, but I personally don't care and this **** should be investigated (by whom? i don't care, i'm not trying to make some rational argument, i'm just bitching). It's not like it hasn't happened before in professional sports, and these refs are just stragglers who could presumably easily be coerced into making some quick cash given the fact that they don't have any job security currently.

Call it preposterous and confirmation biased, IDGAF. The alternative is to just pretend like that **** couldn't possibly happen in "real life". Sure that guy could be a ******* idiot in over his head that signaled a touchdown, but why would his first instinct be to immediately signal touchdown, not even taking into account the fact that the ball wasn't even in the player's possession that he signaled it for.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Call it preposterous and confirmation biased, IDGAF because it is, but the bottom line is that uproar is a good thing.
Exactly Mr. Flapjack, you said it perfect.
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The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Seriously, how does he signal touchdown without consulting any of the other referees; can you really be that negligent to common sense? Not to mention the pass interference where Sidney Rice groped the **** out of the corner on 1st and 30 that was basically a get out of jail free card. It's easy to say that they are just grossly incompetent, but I personally don't care and this **** should be investigated. It's not like it hasn't happened before in professional sports, and these refs are just stragglers who could presumably easily be coerced into making some quick cash given the fact that they don't have any job security currently.

Call it preposterous, IDGAF, I hope people make even more outrageous claims because it just adds to the negative image of the current regime.
The ref was probably told before the game that if SEA won he would receive a Mansion in the Hampton's and full protection for life. Easy choice.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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The big problem in all of this is that people are starting to seriously wonder if games are being rigged. I've read that somewhere between $250 Million and $1 Billion changed hands during last nights game alone, so a bought replacement ref could probably make some nice bank.

I absolutely, 100% do not think that games are being pushed one way or another, but the NFL sure as hell doesn't want people going on ESPN and seriously talking about that possibility.
These refs are too incompetent to push games either way.

edit: Apparently, they are easily influenced. A normal spread for a game is +3 to the home team if both teams are equal. So if the Packers were a 10 point favorite over the Saints on a neutral field, the spread would be Packers-7 in NO and Packers-13 in GB.

But apparently, a number of major books are now moving that 3 point home field advantage up because of how easily influenced the refs are by the crowds.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:15 PM    (permalink
WCH
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Wait, wat...I'm watching NBC Sports....did I just hear Florio say that several key officials have administrative positions with major NCAA conferences, they've told their refs "if you go to the NFL, don't think you can come back", and that's why we have Junior College and D-III refs?

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Old 09-25-2012, 04:24 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Simultaneous catch. Good call.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
they both looked at each other and started to raise their arms. one thought they'd agreed on touchdown, the other thought they'd agreed on int. i'm not really sure why this keeps being brought up.
Because malice is an easier explanation for people to accept than incompetence.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:43 PM    (permalink
WCH
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
they both looked at each other and started to raise their arms. one thought they'd agreed on touchdown, the other thought they'd agreed on int. i'm not really sure why this keeps being brought up.
That's how I read it, also. They made eye contact, probably heard each other say "touch[back/down]" and then raised their arms and made different signals.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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There's no accountability because they're replacements.

The ref that signaled TD was a HS/JUCO ref prior to this.

The ref that signaled touchback was a BIG 12 and AFL ref.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:10 PM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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There's no accountability because they're replacements.

The ref that signaled TD was a HS/JUCO ref prior to this.

The ref that signaled touchback was a BIG 12 and AFL ref.
There is no accountability with the regular refs also. The NFL wants to have a taxi system in place for stuff like this but that's one of the reasons they won't accept a new deal. They don't want to be held accountable.
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