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Old 09-27-2012, 03:52 AM    (permalink
TonyGfortheTD
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I think some underestimation on how hard being a ref in the NFL is going on ITT
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:16 AM    (permalink
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On a random note, I have a problem with everyone say "oh they don't call PI on a hail mary play at the end of the game" to be honest. Yea sure, pushing, grappling for position you let go, but what sense does that make to say since it's the final play of the game rules don't exist anymore?


Golden Tate pushed the **** out of the DB in the open field before the ball came down, if they are going to say that's ok how is that not a problem?
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:17 AM    (permalink
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Owners caved. Who saw that coming?

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Old 09-27-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm definitely in the minority here but I don't support the real refs and I think if you guys understood the issue more than you wouldn't either.

They get paid 150,000 dollars for working 16 4 hour games and they feel they are entitled to more? They aren't the ones responsible for the increase in popularity of the NFL.

Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?

The NFL ref union also once tried to get as much money as the NBA and MLB refs/umpires for working a fraction of the amount of games. The refs union is stupid but since no one understands the issues they just assume Goodell and the NFL are dumb and should just give them whatever they want.
I'm not following...

But I'm going to apply common sense to what you posted. And I'm going to ask questions, which you may or may not know the answers to, but I'm interested in your response.

First, I will say this about unions... They fight. That's what they do. They fight for what they deem is fair. Are you saying the union should not fight for the things you mentioned? Because they fight even when they have it good. Because eventually, with unions, the big guy starts taking away. It always happens. The less you have, or the less you fight for, then the more you are going to lose when the employer starts making cuts. Because, eventually, they are going to make cuts whether you fought or not... whether you have it good or bad, they will still try to give you the minimum.

I'm going to pick your comments apart, and it's only because I don't know the answers to the questions I'm about to ask. And it makes a difference. A big difference. It is easy to hide things through vagueness. So I'm going to ask questions that may be stupid, smart or somewhere in between.


You said they get paid 150k to work 16 games a year. NFL season is 17 weeks. Do they get a bye week? They get paid for that bye week?

NFL also has a postseason. Do the referees that work post season get paid more for working those games? Or is just set on 150k... postseason or not? The Super Bowl make a difference? If they are getting paid to work outside of the regular season, then is there a pay increase for working the more important games?

NFL has a preseason. That's another 4 weeks. I assume they all officiate those games. Is that included in the 150k for 16 weeks of work?

Do they get paid travel expenses? How early are they supposed to be in the City they are officiating prior to the game? A day before? Two days? Any meeting with anyone from the NFL they need to attend before game day? I've heard things about rules testing? When are they conducted? Game day? During the week? Sounds time consuming, which sounds like more work to me.


Why is the NFLRA stupid for attempting to gain the same pay as MLB and NBA officials? Because of the whole 16 game thing? The 16 game season is spread out over 5 months (with four preseason games). Sounds like 5 months of part time work to me. Which sounds a little better than the way you put it. And how does their part time job impact their full time job during the week? Does that mean they have to burn their own time (vacation, personal, ect?) if they are scheduled for a Monday night game? When you consider travel time, that's two days they'd have to burn during the week of their full time job.

Then you mentioned, maybe the one sticking point that may irk you the most... "Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?"

Are they held accountable for doing a good job? Is there a benefit, bonus, whatever you want to call it, for doing a good job? I bet I know this answer. Who decides what official did a good job or a bad job? Is it someone with officiating experience? And how many incorrect calls or missed calls determines if an official is doing a bad job? If you make a "bad call" in a MNF game does that mean you are getting replaced? Even if you have been given good grades prior to that? And once you are replaced, what does that mean? Does that mean you no longer get paid? When can you can you come back? What do you have to do to come back? Take a test?

There is a reason for everything. I'm sure it's not as clear cut as you posted. And there is probably a reason why they are fighting for the things they eventually got.


I haven't made one single argument for them. I'm just asking questions here.

I don't know any of the circumstances involved. Not a bit, and I really don't care. I'm happy they won because I'm in a union, and I've seen some messy, shady stuff that an employer can publish in local papers making a union look bad or greedy. Is this case here? I don't know. I haven't followed up on it. The only thing I know, how it directly effects me, is that when I watch the NFL without these guys, the product the NFL displays... is diminished. Greatly. It's significantly less entertaining, less enjoyable and unfair.


I like the union, because I like unions. I like the fact that these officials are competent, well trained and that they are the best at what they do. I feel as if, those guys, should be compensated appropriately. Paying them a little more? I guess it's not so bad. Maybe if they are paid enough then you don't have to worry about someone else paying them, which could have really bad results for the outcomes of games.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Hochuli was at Chiefs TC a couple of years ago and he is just as big in person.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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On a random note, I have a problem with everyone say "oh they don't call PI on a hail mary play at the end of the game" to be honest. Yea sure, pushing, grappling for position you let go, but what sense does that make to say since it's the final play of the game rules don't exist anymore?


Golden Tate pushed the **** out of the DB in the open field before the ball came down, if they are going to say that's ok how is that not a problem?
In the statement released by the NFL on Tuesday, they acknowledged that the ref missed the offensive pass interference call.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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I expect the real refs to get a 3 minute standing ovation at the start of each game this week. Then 5 minutes into the first quarter a missed holding call, or bad spot and we're back to normal.

It's also worth mentioning that this is more than a 4-hour a week job. I imagine that reffing a game is essentially a whole weekend ordeal. If they have a noon-kickoff, I'm willing to bet they're in town the evening before. That means getting to the airport around noon, leaving for the airport around 9-10am. If the game ends around 4pm, that means they're getting home late Sunday night. I realize they're not working for the whole weekend, but to say they only work 4 hours doesn't include the full picture.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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this was the thing i wanted the owners to 'win' on. bad refs should be canned. i'm so sick of this circling the wagons BS when a guy (or crew) repeatedly makes terrible calls.
They are evaluated. The good ones get playoffs and beyond and the truly bad ones don't stay in the league. I wouldn't act like the same crews are there for life.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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I'm happy the real refs are returning because they should get more respect and hopefully stop all the thug football we've been seeing.

As an aside, I was never as outraged as most about the replacement refs and I hope that they get rewarded in the future and those officials that graded out well get the first chance to be added as the "training and developmental" refs.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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name 1 ref who's actually been fired for being bad at his job. i don't believe i've ever heard of one, meanwhile guys like hochuli **** up a game completely, then get playoff games in the same season.
So except for retirement (which of course can be recommended) we have the same refs we've had for a decade. If that is the case i stand corrected.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Owners caved. Who saw that coming?

J
Wish people would stop saying this because its only half true and half crap.

Both sides caved, both sides took some and gave some.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Face it, the replacement refs stink completely. They were losing control of their games because the players had no respect for them. The players were taking every advantage of the rules they could and not getting called because the replacement refs were just way over their heads.
Many of the replacement refs weren't referring anywhere before they signed and many were just doing high school games. They simply couldn't cope.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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It just dawned on me that every call the real refs make tonight are going to be scrutinized all over the place just like the replacement refs. I bet they are going to try and let them play for the most part knowing that.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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It just dawned on me that every call the real refs make tonight are going to be scrutinized all over the place just like the replacement refs. I bet they are going to try and let them play for the most part knowing that.
Doesn't matter. There will always be bad calls. At least these officials know the rules and correct procedure on how to operate.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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The NFL tried to get rid of their pensions and wanted them to be full time and lose their other job among other things. BTW they agreed to add more refs. Bottom line they should their worth.
That's not the case at all. The NFL wanted to keep their pensions at a fixed rate (not get rid of them) and the refs wanted their pensions to be a percentage of the NFL's profit. Also, the NFL only wanted a few officials to be full-time, not every one of them.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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yea lol they should clear the records and have 13 game season starting now.

seriously though, never been so happy to have the refs back. Maybe I wont flip out as much the next time they call a horrible defensive holding or roughing the passing penalty, Ill remember how much worse others did at the job.
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