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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:03 AM    (permalink
pierce2walker
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Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 View Post
Shaq teamed up Wade, while Kobe was stuck with Mihm...there is no way of comparing the 2.

Wade carried that team to the title...not Shaq. Shaq wouldnt have won **** without Kobe in LA, and the same goes for Kobe without Shaq at that time.
I'm just saying that Shaq was more valuable to the team than Kobe. I'm not saying Kobe sucked, just that Shaq was more valuable to the team.

Wade was great in those playoffs, but there's no way that 2nd year Wade was better than Kobe at that stage.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by soybean View Post
How is Shaq getting a ring with Wade any different than Kobe getting a ring with Gasol?

Also, you're wrong. The lakers would have never beat the Spurs without Kobe.
The triangle offense in LA was built for Shaq, because he was excepted to be the lead guy, not Kobe.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bantx View Post
Shaq wasn't anything? What the **** are you even talking about, Shaq is one of the greatest at his position.
Thats not at all what I said, but go ahead and spin it that way...
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Thats not at all what I said, but go ahead and spin it that way...
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Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 View Post
With that being said you could argue that Shaq wasnt anything without an elite guard next to him. He played next to Penny, Kobe, Wade, Lebron...IDK just another way of looking at something that people have always gave Kobe **** for.
What am I trying to spin, without an elite gaurd he's still one of the greatest to play.


And a great center is more important to a team, it's hard to find a dominate 7footer now and days.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Man I loved Penny...shame he couldn't stay healthy.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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What am I trying to spin, without an elite gaurd he's still one of the greatest to play.


And a great center is more important to a team, it's hard to find a dominate 7footer now and days.
Im not saying he wasnt more important to the Lakers. But when he used the Heat winning a title the next year as an example of why he was more important its just failed logic. Kobe with Mihm or Shaq going over and playing with another elite guard in Wade.

I know how good Shaq was, I was saying it for the sake of the argument that Shaq hasnt won **** without an elite guard next to him, because people always seem to knock Kobe for the same thing (but a post, obviously). He made it to the finals in Orlando with Penny, won 3 in L.A with Kobe and won one with Wade. He wasnt the only thing that drove those teams.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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Shaq was just a piece in that Heat run. If I remember correctly he didn't even play a full season. Shaq was no. 2 at that point, was already on the decline.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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Very debatable. He was hands down the most dominant player in basketball and the East was weak during his peak years.
The East was weak but the West was probably the toughest it has ever been. Shaq alone would NOT have beaten those Kings and Spurs teams.

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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Hey hey, all of this is about how LeBron > Kobe dammit.
Guess we'll see this coming summer.

Also for those arguing that the reason Lebron was better was because he carried a crappy team further than you're also saying he's better than Jordan from 84-90.

I will admit though... Kobe lost us that finals against the Pistons...

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Old 10-11-2012, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Guess we'll see this coming summer.
I meant on the whole. Right now, it's not even close. LeBron is so much better than Kobe at this moment in time.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Alonzo Mourning had more of an impact on that heat team than Shaq did
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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Kobe was putting up 30 a game in those days to, Im just saying that Kobe wasnt just the sidekick back then. People dont realize just how good he was when Shaq was there, they seem to write him off.
If you (Laker fans and or LeBron anti-fans) want people to stop bringing up the fact that Kobe was clearly the second best player on 3 of his championship teams, you (Laker fans and or LeBron anit-fans) need to:

a. Stop comparing Kobe's 5 rings to Jordan's 6.

b. Stop trying to marginalize LeBron's championships because of his surrounding talent.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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I meant on the whole. Right now, it's not even close. LeBron is so much better than Kobe at this moment in time.
I don't know how this is even debatable.

I'm the biggest Kobe-Stan ever, but Lebron is on a whole other level. Kobe is like the Kareem of non-centers, in that his legacy will be defined by the sheer totality of games, points, All Star teams, All NBA teams, etc. But Lebron is a better player.

Fwiw, put an average 2 guard on those mid 2000s Laker teams and they're a lottery team. Easily. Kobe was worth about 20-30 wins to them by himself. He is allowed to talk **** about that supporting cast. Or just talk **** in general, really.

People forget there was a time Kobe wanted us to think he was cool. And everyone saw through him and said **** that, so he said **** it and started acting like his real asshole self. <3

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Old 10-11-2012, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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I don't know how this is even debatable.

I'm the biggest Kobe-Stan ever, but Lebron is on a whole other level. Kobe is like the Kareem of non-centers, in that his legacy will be defined by the sheer totality of games, points, All Star teams, All NBA teams, etc. But Lebron is better in almost every tangible way possible. .
But Kareem was far and away the best player of the 70s, and was damn good in his old ass age in the 80s.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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The argument was never whether Kobe was better than Lebron right now. I don't know how it developed into that.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:58 AM    (permalink
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The argument was never whether Kobe was better than Lebron right now. I don't know how it developed into that.
Blame soybean for saying we'll see this Summer.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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There has been like 4 separate arguments going on since I posted those quotes I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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But Kareem was far and away the best player of the 70s, and was damn good in his old ass age in the 80s.
Hm....I agree with the benefit of hindsight and completed careers. But I bet there serious arguments of Kareem vs Oscar or Moses or Gervin back then... Or even a healthy Walton. I dunno tho. Obviously wasn't alive back then.

I think what you said about Kareem is how we'll look at the 2000s like that for Kobe and Duncan tho. Others may have had a better year or strung together a few better seasons, but as far as the totality of the entire decade? Those two own it IMO.

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Old 10-11-2012, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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There has been like 4 separate arguments going on since I posted those quotes I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
It's always Brodeur's fault. Remember that.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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It's always Brodeur's fault. Remember that.
Factually correct.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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It's always Brodeur's fault. Remember that.
All I said was LeBron is better than Kobe, you Mexican ass. I'm bitter the Tigers lost, I have barely slept in 3 days, I have my fifth test this week in 6 hours, and I'm sticking to LeBron right now is better than Kobe ever was.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
All I said was LeBron is better than Kobe, you Mexican ass. I'm bitter the Tigers lost, I have barely slept in 3 days, I have my fifth test this week in 6 hours, and I'm sticking to LeBron right now is better than Kobe ever was.
Again, difficult/impossible to argue that, even as a raunch Kobe-Stan.

Plz stop, other Laker fans.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:21 AM    (permalink
Brodeur
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There's no way Jamaal Magloire is only 34. He has to be at least 45.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:29 AM    (permalink
MetSox17
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
All I said was LeBron is better than Kobe, you Mexican ass. I'm bitter the Tigers lost, I have barely slept in 3 days, I have my fifth test this week in 6 hours, and I'm sticking to LeBron right now is better than Kobe ever was.
If you drank, these times would go by a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by y.f.s. View Post
Again, difficult/impossible to argue that, even as a raunch Kobe-Stan.

Plz stop, other Laker fans.
Kobe is by far the second best shooting guard of all time, and is only second to the greatest player of all time. Lebron is an all-time great as well, but eric's right, it's impossible to argue between two guys whose primes were at different stages and that play different positions.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:34 AM    (permalink
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Lebron has all the tools and all the ability to go down as the best ever when it is all said and done (I hate saying this by the way, but hes got more physical ability than anyone who has ever played the game). But its going to depend on whether his basketball skill and IQ of the game goes up when his athleticism begins to fade. Dwight Howard is the same type of player in that regard.

I feel Kobe never had the type of athletic ability and relied more on his skills and his IQ of the game. He was able to change his game much like MJ did, and they were probably the 2 most successful in doing so.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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