MLB Discussion Thread - Page 1244

The Alex · 10-12-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21

My Braves lost in the wild card game in Chippers final season.....quit your bitching. The Nats will be back. If you can't handle teams losing then don't bother with sports at all.

Braves won a world series in the 90s. My teams have a combined 0 championships. Don't even compare.

Brodeur · 10-12-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

And then you gave him a contract that was more than $20 million a year, something that only 1/3 of the teams in baseball could even think about doing.

The system is dreadfully broken.

Not really. The Rangers made the World Series the prior two years, and they did it with savvy manuvering. The Giants won the World Series two years ago, and they didn't do it because of the massive contracts they gave to Barry Zito and Aaron Rowand, they did it because of drafting (Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Posey) and lucky midseason pick-ups (Burrell, Huff). The Cards let their star first baseman go and made it to the NLCS.

The system isn't broken, teams are just filled with incredibly stupid management (see the Indians).

Borat · 10-12-2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alex

Braves won a world series in the 90s. My teams have a combined 0 championships. Don't even compare.

Meh. It's just part of paying your dues. I know it sucks. It does. But you have to go through this to truly enjoy the eventual championship. Nats will be good for a while.

JRTPlaya21 · 10-12-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alex

Braves won a world series in the 90s. My teams have a combined 0 championships. Don't even compare.

Yes when I was 5. Well atleast now you will have a ton of free time on your hands.

Giantsfan1080 · 10-12-2012, 11:52 PM

BF is so wrong. Baseball has more parity than other sports.

Brodeur · 10-12-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

BF is so wrong. Baseball has more parity than other sports.

The only one it doesn't have more parity than is the NHL, and the NHL is broke as **** and enduring ANOTHER lockout.

The Alex · 10-12-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat

Meh. It's just part of paying your dues. I know it sucks. It does. But you have to go through this to truly enjoy the eventual championship. Nats will be good for a while.

Time after time, my teams have come so close to greatness and they **** it up on every occasion. I'm done paying dues. I'm paying attention to my career instead.

JRTPlaya21 · 10-12-2012, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

BF is so wrong. Baseball has more parity than other sports.

Exactly. How quickly people forget that since 2000 the freaking Marlins, Angels & Diamondbacks have won WS titles. Plus the Tigers, Rockies, Rays, Rangers & Astros have played for titles.

Giantsfan1080 · 10-12-2012, 11:57 PM

NBA is the worst by far.

Brodeur · 10-12-2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

NBA is the worst by far.

Eh. The NFL is the league where it's "Hey, the Steelers/Pats made the Superb Owl again. Stunner."

Giantsfan1080 · 10-13-2012, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Eh. The NFL is the league where it's "Hey, the Steelers/Pats made the Superb Owl again. Stunner."

Giants/Pats you mean. Steelers/Pats are both AFC teams. The NBA has had 7 or 8 teams win championships the last 40 years or something terrible like that.

Brodeur · 10-13-2012, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Giants/Pats you mean. Steelers/Pats are both AFC teams. The NBA has had 7 or 8 teams win championships the last 40 years or something terrible like that.

I meant in terms of the fact that both constantly represent the AFC, not that they face in the game.

Docta · 10-13-2012, 12:02 AM

The Cards got so lucky with the 1 game WC. Selig's an imbecile and knew he couldn't move the playoff TV schedule, but went ahead with it anyway. Should have just started it next year with the 3 game series.

And the NBA currently has the worst parity, but it's been better in the past. LeBron has that much power.

Giantsfan1080 · 10-13-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

I meant in terms of the fact that both constantly represent the AFC, not that they face in the game.

Well then make that more clear!

bearsfan_51 · 10-13-2012, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Not really. The Rangers made the World Series the prior two years, and they did it with savvy manuvering. The Giants won the World Series two years ago, and they didn't do it because of the massive contracts they gave to Barry Zito and Aaron Rowand, they did it because of drafting (Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Posey) and lucky midseason pick-ups (Burrell, Huff). The Cards let their star first baseman go and made it to the NLCS.

The system isn't broken, teams are just filled with incredibly stupid management (see the Indians).

This ignores the obvious fact that the Giants can blow a bunch of money and still be competitive. Those Sabean deals would have absolutely crippled a smaller franchise.

KCJ58 · 10-13-2012, 12:10 AM

wow this post season has been nuts so far, all games going the distance, and now all the surprise teams out, it's any ones to win

Brodeur · 10-13-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

This ignores the obvious fact that the Giants can blow a bunch of money and still be competitive. Those Sabean deals would have absolutely crippled a smaller franchise.

The Rays were an Evan Longoria injury from making the playoffs again with a tiny payroll, the Dodgers spent 8 billion dollars and blew it, the Red Sox exists, etc. It's not about that, it's about being smart even if you do spend a fuckload of money. There's far more parity in the MLB than in the NFL or NBA, and pre-first lockout NHL.

Giantsfan1080 · 10-13-2012, 12:16 AM

I love Brodie at times like these.

Babylon · 10-13-2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alex

After that, I'm done caring about sports on anything more than a casual level. It's pointless to vicariously live through a bunch of millionaires who don't know I exist, continually let me down, and get paid money to perform a children's game. If it's not the Titans come up a yard short in the Super Bowl, it's the Caps blowing a playoff series or the Nats struggling to find the strike zone for just one pitch. This is nothing more than a waste of time and money. Seriously, I'm done giving a **** about all of this. It's pointless. What do I get in return? Disappointment and sorrow? Screw that. If I spent half the time I spent on sports on my career, I would be making decent money by now. I'll still chit chat about NFL stuff, but I'm done seriously caring about this gigantic blackhole of resources.

From a long suffering Red Sox fan i can relate. Just think only a few more decades of heartbreaks before you win it all. I was lucky i lived long enough to see Boston finally win it in 2004.

bearsfan_51 · 10-13-2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

BF is so wrong. Baseball has more parity than other sports.

BF is not wrong. The Yankees have made the playoffs 12 of the last 13 years. That's as many as the Athletics, Pirates, Astros, Royals, Indians, Blue Jays, Orioles, Rays, and Reds combined. Their notoriety for choking in the playoffs is the only thing that prevents this from being a bigger crisis.

The few cases presented are off because a) Some of those franchises actually spent a lot of money those years to be competitive b) They quickly become not competitive when bigger market teams bought all of their players. A small market team can be competitive under absolutely ideal circumstances, but their window is typically 2-3 years. Teams with 2-3 times the payroll can expect to compete almost every year.

The ratio of successful small-market teams to successful large market teams isn't even close.

And while there may be dominant franchises in the NFL, that's through effort and savvy player management, not through the lazy dominance of an unbalanced system.

Giantsfan1080 · 10-13-2012, 12:23 AM

It comes down to championships and baseball has more teams win them than other sports. NBA is by far the worst as I've said.

bearsfan_51 · 10-13-2012, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

The Rays were an Evan Longoria injury from making the playoffs again with a tiny payroll, the Dodgers spent 8 billion dollars and blew it, the Red Sox exists, etc. It's not about that, it's about being smart even if you do spend a fuckload of money. There's far more parity in the MLB than in the NFL or NBA, and pre-first lockout NHL.

Sometimes you are too smart for your own good. It's about money. On balance, the teams with money do much better than the teams with less of it. Period.

Finding some examples that go counter to the norm doesn't prove anything other than it's not a 100% variable.

And, yes, parity is a problem in the NBA, but I don't know how to fix that when 2-3 guys can effectively collude to win a championship.

Giantsfan1080 · 10-13-2012, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Sometimes you are too smart for your own good. It's about money. On balance, the teams with money do much better than the teams with less of it. Period.

Finding some examples that go counter to the norm doesn't prove anything other than it's not a 100% variable.

And, yes, parity is a problem in the NBA, but I don't know how to fix that when 2-3 guys can effectively collude to win a championship.

The NBA had a problem way before 2-3 guys colluded to win a ship.

bearsfan_51 · 10-13-2012, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

The NBA had a problem way before 2-3 guys colluded to win a ship.

Not really. It might not be collusion in the sense of the Miami Heat, but the best team in the NBA still essentially comes down to which team had the best 2-3 players.

How do you establish parity in a league that essentially comes down to, "which team is Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron on?" I'm sure Stern wishes he had the answer to that question too, because it's a big problem in the NBA as well.

Brodeur · 10-13-2012, 12:31 AM

If the lower market teams drafted as well as the Rays, this wouldn't be as big of an issue either. Bryan Bullington? Daniel Moskos? Brad Lincoln? I mean, Jesus Christ. Even taking that away, the Cards/Giants have mainly gotten where they were because of savvy moves and draft picks. Yes, they paid a lot of money to retain some of their more talented guys, but that is what even smaller market teams are becoming better at doing (see the Rays with Longo/Matt Moore, the Reds with Votto, the Pirates with McCutchen, the Brewers with Braun, the Rockies with Tulo/CarGo, the Rangers with Kinsler).

And Zak is right, it's about championships. Since the Tigers last won a World Series, SEVENTEEN teams have won. That's more than half the league, the list of which includes several teams stuck in the mud or seem to be that way (Royals, Blue Jays, Mets). And you see smart teams right now developing and making it to the playoffs, like the Nationals, the Athletics, and the Reds. They just happened to choke it away in the end.