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Old 10-16-2012, 06:34 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Originally Posted by Ravens1991 View Post
He was the man on that great 2000 defense that set the record for least amount of points given up in a season. Most elite defensive has several HOFs but all that D had was Ray, a old as dirt Rod Woodson and some good players but everyone forgot about them by now.

Come on now.

Rod Woodson was playing safety at an elite level. Sam Adams and Siragusa were immovable objects in the middle of the Dline. DE Mike McCrary was one of the better pass rushers in the game and his bookend Rob Burnett had 10.5 sacks that year.
Lewis/Jamie Sharper/Peter Boulware is one of the alltime great LB units to ever play.
Corners Chris McAlister and Duane Starks could man up any WR duo in the league.

The Ravens had randoms on offense, but they were littered with pro bowl talent on defense. Which isn't surprising considering how many games the Ravens offense couldn't score a TD.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Ray has been a JAG LB for about 3 seasons, IMO it's time for him to hang it up.

It's hard watching him slow to read and react, slow to the hole, or getting blasted by guards, TEs and RBs.
I think stuff like this is getting WAY overblown at this point. Has he lost a step? Uhh sure, he's 37, what 37 year older hasn't "lost a step" from when they were 25? But calling him a JAG shows that you probably haven't watched him very much, or don't know what a JAG is. Bradie James is a JAG. Keith Brooking is a JAG. Those guys are still getting heavy minutes at ILB for their respective 3-4 teams and have been scrubs for a long time now. Experience and depth concerns continue to get them jobs.


Trying to throw Ray in a class with the likes of guys like those two is just flat out ridiculous, it's one thing to say he's not the same player as the 2000 Ray Lewis but Peyton Manning isn't the 2000 Peyton Manning either, that doesn't diminish the level of play those guys are at now.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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If Ray Lewis was playing at the level he is currently for the last 3 -6 seasons, but he was 25 and his name was Ray Jones, nobody would be talking about him.
He would be just another decent to average starter in the NFL.

It sucked to see Jerry Rice devolve into just an okay 3rd WR option. It was painful watching Emmitt Smith turn into barely an average NFL RB.
As a Skins fan it was a kick in the gut to see Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders stealing money at the end of their careers.

There's no joy for me as a fan to see a cardboard prop of a once dominant player being toted on the field just so I can have some vicarious rush from pretending said player is still 'really good'.

The first 10 years of Ray Lewis' career, he essentially had no weaknesses as a LB. He did everything at an elite level. He could cover almost any RB or TE 40 yards downfield, he couldn't be outrun to the sideline, he was almost impossible to block by guards and was a guy who never got trucked by any ballcarrier.

It's a fallacy to assume Lewis is still a 'special' LB. From the neck up yes, but the physical tools aren't there anymore and haven't been for some time.

No one wants to see a future HOFer become just another 'contributor' on a football team.

BTW Ravens games are on in the DMV just much as the SKins are.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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All Mock drafts from this point on must have Teo going to the Ravens
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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what? come on who on this board that is a steelers fan would say that?
None. I was referring to the Steelers board I go on. No one here.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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None. I was referring to the Steelers board I go on. No one here.
You don't have to lie for him, we all know it was Shane.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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All Mock drafts from this point on must have Teo going to the Ravens
They're not going to have a pick high enough in the draft to take Teo, barring a massive trade-up.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Ray Lewis is still probably a top 10 MIKE in the league even at age 37. He lost a step sure, but he's still a sure tackler, he's still a great mind, until this year he was still great vs the run (even this year he led the team in tackles), and decent enough in coverage. He was average in coverage.

I'll still take that over more than 2/3 of the MIKEs in this league.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
If Ray Lewis was playing at the level he is currently for the last 3 -6 seasons, but he was 25 and his name was Ray Jones, nobody would be talking about him.
He would be just another decent to average starter in the NFL.

It sucked to see Jerry Rice devolve into just an okay 3rd WR option. It was painful watching Emmitt Smith turn into barely an average NFL RB.
As a Skins fan it was a kick in the gut to see Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders stealing money at the end of their careers.

There's no joy for me as a fan to see a cardboard prop of a once dominant player being toted on the field just so I can have some vicarious rush from pretending said player is still 'really good'.

The first 10 years of Ray Lewis' career, he essentially had no weaknesses as a LB. He did everything at an elite level. He could cover almost any RB or TE 40 yards downfield, he couldn't be outrun to the sideline, he was almost impossible to block by guards and was a guy who never got trucked by any ballcarrier.

It's a fallacy to assume Lewis is still a 'special' LB. From the neck up yes, but the physical tools aren't there anymore and haven't been for some time.

No one wants to see a future HOFer become just another 'contributor' on a football team.

BTW Ravens games are on in the DMV just much as the SKins are.

I never said he was still special, but for some reason you think because he's not playing at an elite, HOF level right now, then that means he's a washed up JAG that should have retired a long time ago. That's completely false. What 37 year older do you know that just dominated the NFL? So why should we hold that against him?


He's still a good starter and his loss will be felt. Your not even really speaking about his play today, just making a point to note he's not the same unstoppable force he was 12 years ago which is obvious.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I think stuff like this is getting WAY overblown at this point. Has he lost a step? Uhh sure, he's 37, what 37 year older hasn't "lost a step" from when they were 25? But calling him a JAG shows that you probably haven't watched him very much, or don't know what a JAG is. Bradie James is a JAG. Keith Brooking is a JAG. Those guys are still getting heavy minutes at ILB for their respective 3-4 teams and have been scrubs for a long time now. Experience and depth concerns continue to get them jobs.


Trying to throw Ray in a class with the likes of guys like those two is just flat out ridiculous, it's one thing to say he's not the same player as the 2000 Ray Lewis but Peyton Manning isn't the 2000 Peyton Manning either, that doesn't diminish the level of play those guys are at now.
I have watched 2 Ravens games this year with the Pats one obviously being the main one. In that game Lewis looked ok at very best. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a JAG, however he is an average LB at this point in his career. That's not meant as an insult to the guy because as pretty much everyone else has mentioned he will be in every conversation about GOAT LB and possibly GOAT defensive player. But right now he is not a top 10 LB in the league and he hasn't been in a few years.

It's ok for people to move on from guys who were great, however so many people fail to do so. Take the name and number off his jersey and he's not a pro bowler, yet he gets in every year. He's not a sideline to sideline guy anymore. He can't run with most backs or TEs down the field. He will deliver one or two big hits in the running game every week, however so does Brandon Spikes. Ray Lewis reminds me of Spikes right now but if anything not as effective. Neither can cover much, however both add a lot as emotional leaders who can hit, the only difference now is that Spikes hits harder.

Reputation goes a long way in the NFL. However it is clear for anyone to see that Lewis is not a shade of his former self
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Last season was the first year where we really saw a big decline with Lewis and it continued into this season. It's hard losing him because now McClain and Ellerbe are the main guys at ILB but I don't think we will see much of a drop-off in on-field production. Leadership and the intangibles he brings are a different story and like I said in another thread it's almost a good thing that the defense doesn't shift much before the snap anymore since they won't have Lewis out there to line them up. With the way the defense has played so far it's hard for them to get much worse anyways.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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I had a dream last night that I met Ray Lewis. Weird.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Lewis took a step back last year. This year he looked like he has taken two steps back. This was the first year where I said, "Ray Lewis is getting old, and fast." He does not have the speed he used to and he simply doesn't close on the ball the way he used to. He can't make tackles in the hole that he used to make. I've never seen him chasing RBs in the lane, and then twenty yards down the field like he has been doing this year. Last year you could see RBs get by him, but this year they are blowing by him. His pass coverage... he's becoming a liability.

Part me thinks he's too much of a competitor to allow his career to end on an injury. And, ultimately, I think he comes back for one more season because of that very reason. But another part of me (a much smaller part of me) thinks he will hear God talk to him again in his sleep and he will see this as a sign to retire from Football. Either way, we are not going to see the Ray Lewis we've known for the last 15 years ever again. He's declined over the last two years quite a bit. It's actually been a little surprising to see.

I'm not an avid fan of his, but I respect his game tremendously, but when I seen Jerry Rice slowly and unmercifully fade away... it was tough to take. He was my favorite player ever. And I always denied his age as being a factor to his declining level of play. I couldn't admit that Jerry Rice was washed up until it was so bad that he was playing for the Seahawks. In reality, Jerry Rice was washed up while he still played in San Francisco.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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The type of guy Ray Lewis is, no way in hell he walk away from the game like this. I'd say he will come back for one more year to prove to himself and everyone that an injury cant beat him and then he will call it quits. And what a say day for the NFL that will be when that day comes.
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