Some Thoughts Through Week 6

[ChiFan24]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Depends which Cutler shows up. Good Cutler gives you a chance. Bad Cutler doesn't.

I'd like to think that the Bears offensive staff has figured out how to entice Good Cutler to come out when it doesn't occur naturally. Lots of running/easy short stuff setting up play action. Never fails. I wish Mike Tice would pay attention to my phone calls.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by jth1331

NOT ONE MENTION OF THAT GREAT MONDAY NIGHT COMEBACK?
Peyton Manning for MVP

I don't know what to make of the Broncos. They have some serious flaws but in a weak AFC it doesn't matter. And they can't start so slow all the time. They have to clean that up.

[SickwithIt1010]

Long post and in the end all I read was

KnicksIn2013

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Earlier this year Nnamdi routinely got burned by Jacoby Jones repeatedly and had to rely on the replacement refs letting him hold and grab Jones all game. Yup Jacoby Jones.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Earlier this year Nnamdi routinely got burned by Jacoby Jones repeatedly and had to rely on the replacement refs letting him hold and grab Jones all game. Yup Jacoby Jones.

Nnamdi hasn't really been great at all since joining the Eagles.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Elevating those around you doesn't nec mean taking bad players and making them look good. It can mean taking talented players to the next level. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Eli, Ben, Romo, Peyton etc all do this. Tan shill does it with guys like Hartline, who came out of nowhere. Cutler did it with guys like Hester, Knox, Aroshumadu. Eli does it with guys like Hixon, Randle, Barden. Bree's with just about anyone, etc. Romo with guys like Oggletree, or the scrub last year who signed a contract with Jacksonville who magically looks mediocre again.

It happens all over the NFL. Franchise qbs elevate those around them.

And talented players are going to help the quarterback win football games. Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez help Brady. Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace help Roethlisberger, and Colston and Graham help Drew Brees. If they were playing with guys that weren't that talented, it would make their job a lot harder. It goes hand in hand. Quarterbacks can help elevate other players around them to playing well, but even that has a cap. Accurate throws are meanlingless if a receiver can't beat the jam or gain some kind of separation from a defensive back.

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by soybean

Not enough Jets talk. We were by all intents and purposes pegged as a bottom 5 team by everyone on this board deservedly so with a struggling qb, a who's who of crap on offense, and injuries to our best players.

Now look, we're 500 sitting atop the AFC East. If we can beat the patriots this week, we'll make the playoffs. You can book it.

Thanks for giving props to Cromartie. Dude is a stud.

you beat the colts, bills and dolphins, and should've lost to the phins...

[njx9]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

2. You need wide receivers. Forget OL. Look at the last 4 teams in the SB: Packers, Steelers, Giants, Patriots. None of them had great OLs. You need weapons. Weapons make plays, they dictate coverages, they dictate scheme. You need weapons for the qb to throw to. And you need cover guys to cover them. Which leads to item 3:

let's be clear: you don't need top end, calvin johnsons at receiver. you don't need first round picks at wr. you need receivers who fit your scheme and qb. spend a top ten pick on a receiver to help your qb on an untalented team is idiotic, and you won't win the super bowl any faster.

[Da-Phins]

We need some Ryan Tannehill talk in here!

Believe he's one of the top QB's in the NFL against the blitz. Pretty good for a raw QB who still has plenty of upside. Maybe this joke of a franchise finally has a QB.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Ness

And talented players are going to help the quarterback win football games. Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez help Brady. Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace help Roethlisberger, and Colston and Graham help Drew Brees. If they were playing with guys that weren't that talented, it would make their job a lot harder. It goes hand in hand. Quarterbacks can help elevate other players around them to playing well, but even that has a cap. Accurate throws are meanlingless if a receiver can't beat the jam or gain some kind of separation from a defensive back.

Which would be a pertinent point if Alex Smith didn't have weapons of his own to work with, especially with that strong OL and running game to give his receivers even more time to separate and lesser coverages than the actually elite and just really good guys get.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by njx9

let's be clear: you don't need top end, calvin johnsons at receiver. you don't need first round picks at wr. you need receivers who fit your scheme and qb. spend a top ten pick on a receiver to help your qb on an untalented team is idiotic, and you won't win the super bowl any faster.

You need guys that can make plays for their QBs, whether that's picking Hakeem Nicks in the first round or signing Victor Cruz as an UDFA, in a passing league you need some guys who'll burn single coverage when they get it. And other guys that fit the scheme/QB around them that QB can elevate as needed. But I do think you need some genuine studliness to win a superbowl.

I don't agree about the ten pick on WR for a talentless team point. I'd put it in the category after QBs alongside pass rushers and DBs. You can find gems at those positions later, but the easiest way to get some difference makers at those spots is to use premium picks on them, plus you can't really have too many studs at these positions because of the proliferation of spread passing concepts.

[y.f.s.]

Originally Posted by Da-Phins

We need some Ryan Tannehill talk in here!

Believe he's one of the top QB's in the NFL against the blitz. Pretty good for a raw QB who still has plenty of upside. Maybe this joke of a franchise finally has a QB.

I'll be over here crying.

[MetSox17]

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

I'll be over here crying.

You'll be fine, you have teh Blaine.

[Thecollegedropout]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Why would anybody be talking about the Jets? They're about as decidedly mediocre as anybody right now, and while they still have a shot at the playoffs and even the division the team isn't going to make any noise if they make it to the playoffs, and has one of the bleakest futures in the entire NFL.

They're stuck with an shallow roster full of overpaid players with their best player on IR with a knee injury. They haven't had a good draft in 4 years, and long term they have No QB, RB, WR, LG, RT, LB's besides David Harris, FS, and SS. Plus they have no cap room moving forward, and even have to cut 3 contributors and possibly lose another in Keller just to stay under it.

But hey at least they have Tebow.

Stephen Hill and Jeremy Kerley aren't promising WR prospects? Slauson has been alright at LG, Austin Howard has actually been alright at RT and I am of course in the Pro-Sanchez bandwagon but I know I won't convert anyone.

[Thecollegedropout]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

So the lack of talent around him shouldn't matter. A good qb overcomes that. Look at Tannehill. Not much difference btw the talent around him and the talent around Sanchez. But it's clear as day who the better qb is, it's clear as day who makes the players around him better. Quarterbacks are expensive. If you're gonna commit to a qb and pay him a bunch of money, he better be a guy who can elevate those around him. If he's not, then you're wasting time and money by keeping him around.

Reggie Bush is better than any of the Jets RB by a mile, Brian Hartline is a more polished WR than Stephen Hill and same goes for Bess vs Kerley, both O-Lines I think are a push and since Keller has not been healthy for much of this year so far, Fasano>Cumberland

So I gotta disagree with this point.

[nobodyinparticular]

I do believe that every Raider fan tried to tell the world Nnamdi may be elite in man coverage, but he just isn't up to snuff in zone.

This is a guy who played safety in college and only learned to play CB in the pros. And he played his entire career from 2003-2010 in Oakland where they play only man coverage on an island. Hence he has absolutely no zone repetition.

I still freaking love him though.

[soybean]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

you beat the colts, bills and dolphins, and should've lost to the phins...

Yeah, and my point is we were pegged as a bottom feeder team by everyone. We may not be an upper echelon team but we're definitely not one of the worst; and we're doing it with guys that wouldn't even make other team's starting rotations.

[Raiderz4Life]

Hahahaha complex would try to hate on Luck

[Bulldogs]

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

Hahahaha complex would try to hate on Luck

You just don't get it do you???!!! Stop giving Luck a pass!

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by Da-Phins

We need some Ryan Tannehill talk in here!

Believe he's one of the top QB's in the NFL against the blitz. Pretty good for a raw QB who still has plenty of upside. Maybe this joke of a franchise finally has a QB.

You are like the most ridiculously bi polar football fan i have ever seen in my life. One week you want a plane to crash and kill your whole team as well as saying you hope your HC loses another child, and now you have a QB with alot of raw upside who inspires hope in your franchise. I'm sure tho next week when he doesn't play well you wish for the death of his entire family, only to later praise him the following week if you guys squeak by with a win.

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

Hahahaha complex would try to hate on Luck

Seriously, that guys taste in QBs is down right hilarious.

Originally Posted by Bulldogs

You just don't get it do you???!!! Stop giving Luck a pass!

I mean we really need to stop giving him a pass and start saving those for QBs such as Newton, Sanchez, Tebow. those are the Qbs we should be giving passes out for.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by ChiFan24

It means you have an opinion of a guy, watch the guy, and see it in a way that confirms your original opinion. I don't know if that's the case with you, but a lot of posters on this board are that way.

Oh sweet that's what I thought it meant. I talk to BBD a lot and I think to a small extent that's true. I won't say he is rigid and stubborn in his opinion at all. He can change it. He is a decent guy for liking the other side of the ball. Luckily his side of the ball produced on defense last game. : )

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

You need guys that can make plays for their QBs, whether that's picking Hakeem Nicks in the first round or signing Victor Cruz as an UDFA, in a passing league you need some guys who'll burn single coverage when they get it. And other guys that fit the scheme/QB around them that QB can elevate as needed. But I do think you need some genuine studliness to win a superbowl.

I don't agree about the ten pick on WR for a talentless team point. I'd put it in the category after QBs alongside pass rushers and DBs. You can find gems at those positions later, but the easiest way to get some difference makers at those spots is to use premium picks on them, plus you can't really have too many studs at these positions because of the proliferation of spread passing concepts.

name the last top ten picks at WR who have won, or more importantly contributed heavily, to a super bowl win. having a hard time? it's because the position is overrated. the patriots didn't need randy moss to win a super bowl. in fact, he DIDN'T win them a super bowl. is justin blackmon really fixing the problems in jacksonville? how many playoff games has calvin johnson won for detroit? if you're picking that high, your problem is NEVER a lack of 'playmakers', whatever that means, and there's no reason you should ever be selecting a WR ahead of nearly any other position.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by njx9

name the last top ten picks at WR who have won, or more importantly contributed heavily, to a super bowl win. having a hard time? it's because the position is overrated. the patriots didn't need randy moss to win a super bowl. in fact, he DIDN'T win them a super bowl. is justin blackmon really fixing the problems in jacksonville? how many playoff games has calvin johnson won for detroit? if you're picking that high, your problem is NEVER a lack of 'playmakers', whatever that means, and there's no reason you should ever be selecting a WR ahead of nearly any other position.

That's true, but none the less you could say the same things about any elite positions on bad teams. How many playoff games have Joe Thomas or Joe Haden helped Cleveland win? That's a LT and a CB. How many playoff games has Demarcus Ware helped the Cowboys win as a pass rusher? What about Richard Seymour in Oakland? That just goes without saying.


Bad organizations are just bad. I don't think there is a strict recipe, other then having an elite QB, but you could look across the league and find bad teams, or teams who have not won a SB who have elite players at key positions. I don't think it gives you a true feel for how important that position is by how well the team has done though.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

That's true, but none the less you could say the same things about any elite positions on bad teams. How many playoff games have Joe Thomas or Joe Haden helped Cleveland win? That's a LT and a CB. How many playoff games has Demarcus Ware helped the Cowboys win as a pass rusher? What about Richard Seymour in Oakland? That just goes without saying.

Bad organizations are just bad. I don't think there is a strict recipe, other then having an elite QB, but you could look across the league and find bad teams, or teams who have not won a SB who have elite players at key positions. I don't think it gives you a true feel for how important that position is by how well the team has done though.

*shrug* and yet, you could point to the giants super bowls and say, 'their defensive line/eli won those games.' von milller has made denver a better team than justin blackmon will ever make jacksonville. it's just disingenuous to suggest that WR is a key position that teams should be spending high picks on, when there's absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, to substantiate that. yes, if your team sucks at player evaluation, a WR will probably make just as much difference as blaine gabbert. but if your team sucks at player evaluation, then the entire conversation is moot anyways.