2012 Mid-Season Forum Mock Discussion - Page 22

draftguru151 · 10-18-2012, 08:10 AM

Mwahaha love sniping everyone for Elam. Extremely physical player, nice build, great athlete, elite with the ball in his hands and should help as a returner. I almost took him in the first, can't believe he fell to me in the 2nd. Then I considered taking Easley in the 2nd too, and he fell to me in the third xD. Easley hasn't been healthy at all this year but the dude is an elite athlete inside. Incredible quickness and power. Where he plays would kind of depend on Wolfe's development, Easley had the body to play end or tackle, though I like him more at tackle, so he'd probably play there with Wolfe at end, and the two of them at DT in nickel with Doom and Von outside. Bostic has the ideal body for a mike and is a ridiculous athlete. Extremely explosive. Still learning to play linebacker, but hopefully with DJ, Von, Woodyard, and Irving, Bostic can develop a bit while being a 2 down guy early. Feel really good about the defensive additions at each level.

Oh and I also drafted an elite back for Manning in Lattimore. SEC speed baby!

Also if this were an offseason I totally would have overpaid Welker to replace Stokley in the slot.

Matthew Jones · 10-18-2012, 08:24 AM

Interesting thoughts on Welker, DG. I'm sure he would be productive with Manning but I also wonder if Manning would be willing to revise his offense significantly this late in his career in order to incorporate Welker's massive route tree. Peyton's offenses have always relied on a handful of plays focused on perfect execution; some speculations put the number of plays in his playbook at 15-20. I'm not sure how much of an overhaul he would be willing to put in to incorporate the element of unpredictability Welker provides; would all of Welker's creative routes be utilized or would he be wasted in that scheme?

draftguru151 · 10-18-2012, 09:12 AM

Wasted to an extent, because he'd be asked to do significantly less overall. I wasn't picturing him as the 100 catch a season Welker, but more as just a way to get Stokley the **** off the field. He'd be used differently, and he wouldn't put up stats in such volume, but I think he'd still be extremely effective. I think some elements of Welker would be incorporated, but it wouldn't be a massive overhaul into an option route offense. Welker would be used as a complimentary guy (especially as he ages) rather than the #1. Welker's best attribute has always been to get open and catch the ball, which would still be the primary focus with Manning, even if he isn't running as complicated of a route tree.

scottyboy · 10-18-2012, 12:56 PM

i wanted Elam and/or Short to fall in the 2nd, but I'm super dooper happy with Buchanan

Also, **** the eagles for getting khaseem :/

Matthew Jones · 10-18-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

Wasted to an extent, because he'd be asked to do significantly less overall. I wasn't picturing him as the 100 catch a season Welker, but more as just a way to get Stokley the **** off the field. He'd be used differently, and he wouldn't put up stats in such volume, but I think he'd still be extremely effective. I think some elements of Welker would be incorporated, but it wouldn't be a massive overhaul into an option route offense. Welker would be used as a complimentary guy (especially as he ages) rather than the #1. Welker's best attribute has always been to get open and catch the ball, which would still be the primary focus with Manning, even if he isn't running as complicated of a route tree.

I think he'd work in the role you envisioned, but his routes are really what makes him such a great receiver. He actually drops a pretty high volume of passes and his ability to get separation is largely due to his ability to diagnose defenses and find soft spots, plus running routes like the circle. It will probably take a #1 type of contract in order to lure Welker from the Patriots; if he's getting short term offers where he's paid like a third receiver, he may as well stick with the Patriots.

D-Unit · 10-18-2012, 01:04 PM

Dallas Cowboys
R1 - Eric Reid, FS
Cowboys have had issues at FS since Darren Woodson left.

R2 - Dallas Thomas, G/T
Plan is to start Thomas at RT. Doug Free is owed a $7M salary next year and he's not worth it.

R3 - Jesse Williams, DT
Rob can move Williams around at NT or DE along his 3-4 front, but will mostly play NT and push Ratliff into more playing time at DE.

R3 (Mike Jenkins trade) - Andre Ellington, RB
Felix could only return if he comes cheap. Ellington looks like an upgrade as a compliment to Murray.

R4 - John Simon, OLB
Envision him as a versatile backup OLB or ILB as Rob loves to move people around. Wouldn't put it past Rob to use Simon even at DE at times.

Comments welcomed.

D-Unit · 10-18-2012, 08:16 PM

No comments? Haha ok fine.

Matthew Jones · 10-18-2012, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Dallas Cowboys
R1 - Eric Reid, FS
Cowboys have had issues at FS since Darren Woodson left.

R2 - Dallas Thomas, G/T
Plan is to start Thomas at RT. Doug Free is owed a $7M salary next year and he's not worth it.

R3 - Jesse Williams, DT
Rob can move Williams around at NT or DE along his 3-4 front, but will mostly play NT and push Ratliff into more playing time at DE.

R3 (Mike Jenkins trade) - Andre Ellington, RB
Felix could only return if he comes cheap. Ellington looks like an upgrade as a compliment to Murray.

R4 - John Simon, OLB
Envision him as a versatile backup OLB or ILB as Rob loves to move people around. Wouldn't put it past Rob to use Simon even at DE at times.

Comments welcomed.

I thought Reid, Williams, and Simon were all really nice picks, and I'm amazed that you were able to get something for Mike Jenkins. Dallas Thomas seemed like kind of a reach (not a big fan of his inability to sustain blocks) but I could imagine Dallas being interested in him.

D-Unit · 10-18-2012, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

I thought Reid, Williams, and Simon were all really nice picks, and I'm amazed that you were able to get something for Mike Jenkins. Dallas Thomas seemed like kind of a reach (not a big fan of his inability to sustain blocks) but I could imagine Dallas being interested in him.

draftguru151 · 10-18-2012, 09:53 PM

I'm hoping the Phins sign Jennings/Bowe irl so we can draft Reid in the first.

D-Unit · 10-18-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

I'm hoping the Phins sign Jennings/Bowe irl so we can draft Reid in the first.

I think there is a high probability of you guys addressing WR in FA. But I hope you don't snipe Reid away from Dallas.... More than likely, Dallas will have a worse record than Miami and still pass on Reid.

draftguru151 · 10-18-2012, 10:00 PM

You should draft Warmack anyway.

D-Unit · 10-18-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

You should draft Warmack anyway.

I wouldn't want him at 14 though.

TheBoyWonder22 · 10-18-2012, 10:12 PM

So was BB planning on grading us?

draftguru151 · 10-18-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

I wouldn't want him at 14 though.

You should.

BeerBaron · 10-18-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBoyWonder22

So was BB planning on grading us?

I just don't have the time or energy for that kind of thing anymore. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it, then they should by all means.

TheBoyWonder22 · 10-18-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I just don't have the time or energy for that kind of thing anymore. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it, then they should by all means.

That's more than fair. I just wasn't sure if that was the plan.

Brothgar · 10-18-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Dallas Cowboys
R1 - Eric Reid, FS
Cowboys have had issues at FS since Darren Woodson left.

R2 - Dallas Thomas, G/T
Plan is to start Thomas at RT. Doug Free is owed a $7M salary next year and he's not worth it.

R3 - Jesse Williams, DT
Rob can move Williams around at NT or DE along his 3-4 front, but will mostly play NT and push Ratliff into more playing time at DE.

R3 (Mike Jenkins trade) - Andre Ellington, RB
Felix could only return if he comes cheap. Ellington looks like an upgrade as a compliment to Murray.

R4 - John Simon, OLB
Envision him as a versatile backup OLB or ILB as Rob loves to move people around. Wouldn't put it past Rob to use Simon even at DE at times.

Comments welcomed.

Reid was my backup plan for Te'o so I love that pick and now that Dallas team is a true no fly zone. The Rob Ryan D really needs a big man at the NT Williams really fits the bill. I'm OK with Ellington

D-Unit · 10-19-2012, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

You should.

I don't really agree, but I know a lot of guys think spending a high pick on OG is important. It would have the be the latter part of Round 1 before I would even consider spending a 1st round pick on a Guard.

When Parcells came to Dallas, he brought the philosophy that immediate needs on the interior OL should be solved through FA and the draft should be used to develop future starters. Rookie OL are just not typically prepared to step in right away and solve a need that's immediate. So maybe you solve the need in the long term, but you still struggle to get the improvement you sought out going into the offseason.

But imo, drafting Tackles in Round 1 is fine cause teams usually lock them up before they hit FA or else they cost a mint to sign. Guards and Centers get big pay days, but not normally on the same level as Tackles. Finding a bargain is not out of the ordinary. Plus, 1st round Tackles have a relatively low bust rate. So I'm all for taking Tackles high in Round 1.

I just don't feel the same way about OG and C. Yeah, I think Dallas needs upgrades on the OL. That's been obvious. But honestly, the only guy who hasn't shown signs of improving right now is Doug Free. Warmack would be a great get, but at the cost... not real thrilled about that. If the Cowboys could get a playmaking Safety I think that would put that unit over the top. We're last in the league in generating turnovers. It sucks.

Grizzlegom · 10-19-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

I'm hoping the Phins sign Jennings/Bowe irl so we can draft Reid in the first.

I'd definitely be cool with that. Ross' obsession with WR could see us double up with one of them plus a high pick but Clemons is average at best and is a FA so a stud FS would be awesome.

draftguru151 · 10-19-2012, 08:39 AM

Sign Jennings, draft Reid, package some of the extra picks to move up for Eifert (if necessary), draft a CB in the 2nd, LB or DE in the third. Would be money. We'd have to fire Ireland to have any chance of this happening, but it would be awesome!

derza222 · 10-19-2012, 09:54 AM

Jets landed:

1) Chance Warmack
2) Stedman Bailey
3) Brennan Williams

Via trade brought in Paul Kruger, Jacksonville's 4th next year, and Baltimore's 6th (in two separate trades, but all for the Jets' 4th round pick this year).

Kind of looks like a case of trying to build around Mark Sanchez, but that's not really the case. Think 'Canes would agree we would have loved to land Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith, just never really had a shot at either and didn't want to draft a QB for the sake of drafting one since that can set a team back (Sanchez). From there just tried to make the best of the situation for a team with a ton of needs this offseason.

Docta · 10-19-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

I don't really agree, but I know a lot of guys think spending a high pick on OG is important. It would have the be the latter part of Round 1 before I would even consider spending a 1st round pick on a Guard.

When Parcells came to Dallas, he brought the philosophy that immediate needs on the interior OL should be solved through FA and the draft should be used to develop future starters. Rookie OL are just not typically prepared to step in right away and solve a need that's immediate. So maybe you solve the need in the long term, but you still struggle to get the improvement you sought out going into the offseason.

But imo, drafting Tackles in Round 1 is fine cause teams usually lock them up before they hit FA or else they cost a mint to sign. Guards and Centers get big pay days, but not normally on the same level as Tackles. Finding a bargain is not out of the ordinary. Plus, 1st round Tackles have a relatively low bust rate. So I'm all for taking Tackles high in Round 1.

I just don't feel the same way about OG and C. Yeah, I think Dallas needs upgrades on the OL. That's been obvious. But honestly, the only guy who hasn't shown signs of improving right now is Doug Free. Warmack would be a great get, but at the cost... not real thrilled about that. If the Cowboys could get a playmaking Safety I think that would put that unit over the top. We're last in the league in generating turnovers. It sucks.

You'd do better with quality guards and terrible tackles than with quality tackles and terrible guards. The Saints with Nicks are a perfect example. The DEs are a non-factor if you can step up in a clean pocket.

draftguru151 · 10-19-2012, 04:05 PM

Eh, Saints system had a lot to do with that. A truely awful OT limits your offense a lot more than an awful OG. That said, I'd rather draft an elite interior guy (like Womack), than a good OT.

D-Unit · 10-19-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

You'd do better with quality guards and terrible tackles than with quality tackles and terrible guards. The Saints with Nicks are a perfect example. The DEs are a non-factor if you can step up in a clean pocket.

Haha, yeah that became the popular discussion that people liked to talk about last summer. I'm not gonna argue for it either way. But I still don't think it's smart to draft OGs high in Round 1. Not even the "best OG since Chad Hutchinson" in DeCastro went high. The Guard position is on the lower end of the pay scale when it comes to Franchise Tag players. If you're looking to use your money the best you can within the salary cap limits, I think it's smarter to target high priced positions in Round 1.

...and to add to that... if you can get a proven vet vs a rookie, I just think it's better to go with free agency to fill an immediate need at C or OG.

If your going do find a guy you want to develop, then that's fine outside of Round 1...but not in Round 1.