NBA Discussion Thread - Page 2959

Rosebud · 10-28-2012, 09:41 AM

I just can't believe that OKC traded away Harden. I kinda figure they'd end up moving one of their big 3, but I always assumed it'd be Russell for a kings ransom.

dabears10 · 10-28-2012, 09:54 AM

I don't think the trade is an out-out terrible move by Presti and the Thunder. They still have a 6th man scorer out of Kevin Martin, Lamb is there to develop and possibly be a better fit, meaning a good defender with some ability to score, and 2 first round picks from a Houston team I don't really believe in at the moment.

In the end though this move doesn't get them closer to a championship, so it's a failure.

Rob S · 10-28-2012, 10:02 AM

They aren't Houston's picks anyway. It's not the worst trade asset wise, but it is unforgivable because they broke the golden rule. They had a chance to win a title this year and they flushed it down the toilet.

Brodeur · 10-28-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabears10

I don't think the trade is an out-out terrible move by Presti and the Thunder. They still have a 6th man scorer out of Kevin Martin, Lamb is there to develop and possibly be a better fit, meaning a good defender with some ability to score, and 2 first round picks from a Houston team I don't really believe in at the moment.

In the end though this move doesn't get them closer to a championship, so it's a failure.

Kevin Martin isn't really much of a sixth man scorer, and haha at Lamb being a good defender.

dabears10 · 10-28-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Kevin Martin isn't really much of a sixth man scorer, and haha at Lamb being a good defender.

I think he has the skills in order to become a good defender, something Harden does not. He has the length and the quickness to do so and I believe will end up being an above average-good defender in the pros.

Martin is fine for the 6th man role, he can get a bulk of the offensive chances which is good for him. The real issue is that he can't play defense a lick. And likely will not be able to play crunch time minutes like Harden was able to.

Brodeur · 10-28-2012, 10:26 AM

Except that since Kevin Martin has stopped driving and became solely a jump shooter, he's gotten much worse. His shot is considerably worse than it used to be, too. Harden was just way too important to trade him for spare parts like they did.

D-Unit · 10-28-2012, 01:07 PM

Good trade for the Thunder. I think this trade strengthened them for this season and the future. People have overrated Harden for too long. Him being the 3rd wheel to Durant and Russell helped his career tremendously. He's not a max player. They keep their cap in shape, they get Lamb who I wished Orlando would've gotten for Howard. Love his game and upside. He might be just as good for the Thunder as Harden would've been. Especially when you think about how Harden totally disappeared in the Finals. Kevin Martin's defense isn't great, but I'm sure his overall stock will rise this season as he heads into FA. ...and Lamb CAN play D. He's got length at SG that can pose problems.

comahan · 10-28-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabears10

I think he has the skills in order to become a good defender, something Harden does not. He has the length and the quickness to do so and I believe will end up being an above average-good defender in the pros.

Martin is fine for the 6th man role, he can get a bulk of the offensive chances which is good for him. The real issue is that he can't play defense a lick. And likely will not be able to play crunch time minutes like Harden was able to.

Martin got a bulk of the offensive chances in Houston and it wasnt good for him or the team. 41% on nothing but jumpers. I seriously think Lamb is already a superior player to Martlin. Lamb is a nice piece, and could end up being a good player for OKC, but he+a contract+two late lottery picks at best arent even close to being worth trading a key piece on your championship contender for. I dont care if he didnt want to sign an extension. (Could have kept him at the end of the season anyways, RFA and all.)

Nalej · 10-28-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Good trade for the Thunder. I think this trade strengthened them for this season and the future. People have overrated Harden for too long. Him being the 3rd wheel to Durant and Russell helped his career tremendously. He's not a max player. They keep their cap in shape, they get Lamb who I wished Orlando would've gotten for Howard. Love his game and upside. He might be just as good for the Thunder as Harden would've been. Especially when you think about how Harden totally disappeared in the Finals. Kevin Martin's defense isn't great, but I'm sure his overall stock will rise this season as he heads into FA. ...and Lamb CAN play D. He's got length at SG that can pose problems.

Bolded. How I feel. I can see how this can affect their immediate championship hopes and if that's what the gripe is about then I get it. Play the season out and see if you can win it all.
Harden is not a max player though and I besides chemistry, I don't see how this is a bad trade for the Thunder.
(I'm not underrating chemistry here, I just don't get all the Harden love)

nobodyinparticular · 10-28-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Except that since Kevin Martin has stopped driving and became solely a jump shooter, he's gotten much worse. His shot is considerably worse than it used to be, too. Harden was just way too important to trade him for spare parts like they did.

This is absolutely true, but having seen Martin perform as a great scorer for years, I wouldn't be too shocked if he got back to his roots now that he won't be the premiere scoring option on his team. Make him the 3rd scoring option on the team and he could very well become close to what he used to be.

Brodeur · 10-28-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Good trade for the Thunder. I think this trade strengthened them for this season and the future. People have overrated Harden for too long. Him being the 3rd wheel to Durant and Russell helped his career tremendously. He's not a max player. They keep their cap in shape, they get Lamb who I wished Orlando would've gotten for Howard. Love his game and upside. He might be just as good for the Thunder as Harden would've been. Especially when you think about how Harden totally disappeared in the Finals. Kevin Martin's defense isn't great, but I'm sure his overall stock will rise this season as he heads into FA. ...and Lamb CAN play D. He's got length at SG that can pose problems.

People have underrated Harden for too long, actually. He is a max player, and you overrate the living hell out of Lamb. Christ, I don't get this random love for him. Yeah I liked him at the draft, but come on he wasn't some amazing prospect or something. I saw him as a decent SG and still do. Martin is not good and I don't see him going back to what he was (sorry NIP).

Rob S · 10-28-2012, 06:19 PM

I'm inbetween Brody and you guys. I don't think Harden is a max player, but if it took the max to get him to stay then it was obviously worth it. I have no idea how anyone can consider this a good or even neutral trade for OKC. It's terrible.

Brodeur · 10-28-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

I'm inbetween Brody and you guys. I don't think Harden is a max player, but if it took the max to get him to stay then it was obviously worth it. I have no idea how anyone can consider this a good or even neutral trade for OKC. It's terrible.

If Brook Lopez is a max player, Harden is a max player. If 2011-2012 Deron Williams is a max player, Harden is a max player. If Joe Johnson is a max player, Harden is a max player. If Batum is nearly a max player, Harden is a max player.

You get my point yet?

jballa838 · 10-28-2012, 06:27 PM

2012 Stats
Harden's per 36 numbers: 19.3 PPG, 4.7 REB, 4.1 AST, 1.0 Steal
Stephen Curry per 36: 18.8 PPG, 4.3 REB, 6.8 AST, 1.8 STL. Better % too.
Jrue Holiday per 36: 14.4 PPG, 3.5 REB, 4.8 AST (career low), 1.7 STL. And he's 21, not 24.

Those are two random players who are roughly the same age that I just pulled out of my head. If Harden's a max player, this CBA was useless and we're all screwed. James Harden is statistically (and by virtue of his play) not a max contract player

jballa838 · 10-28-2012, 06:29 PM

If 2011-2012 James Harden is a max player, there might be 30 players in the league who are max players.

Brodeur · 10-28-2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jballa838

2012 Stats
Harden's per 36 numbers: 19.3 PPG, 4.7 REB, 4.1 AST, 1.0 Steal
Stephen Curry per 36: 18.8 PPG, 4.3 REB, 6.8 AST, 1.8 STL. Better % too.
Jrue Holiday per 36: 14.4 PPG, 3.5 REB, 4.8 AST (career low), 1.7 STL. And he's 21, not 24.

Those are two random players who are roughly the same age that I just pulled out of my head. If Harden's a max player, this CBA was useless and we're all screwed. James Harden is statistically (and by virtue of his play) not a max contract player

Nice way of forgetting to look at Jrue's percentages, which are pretty ******* important. The main difference is that Curry is godawful at driving and getting to the line, and Harden is one of the best in the league at it. Curry's got good percentages, but that's pretty blah if he's unable to get to the line at all. I mean, he had 47 free throw attempts in 26 games. That's pathetic.

jballa838 · 10-28-2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Nice way of forgetting to look at Jrue's percentages, which are pretty ******* important. The main difference is that Curry is godawful at driving and getting to the line, and Harden is one of the best in the league at it. Curry's got good percentages, but that's pretty blah if he's unable to get to the line at all. I mean, he had 47 free throw attempts in 26 games. That's pathetic.

If he misses 1 more shot out of 10 than Harden, but he makes up for it by actually being a competent passer, I'll take that trade.

Harden is great at running to the basket, falling over and getting a foul call, meanwhile Stephen Curry superior at passing, shooting, getting steals, getting rebounds, leading a team, and doing things basketball players are expected to do. Harden is the 5th best guard in that draft class, and he could end up being 6th depending on Demar Derozan's development. He isn't worth the money he's about to be getting paid, and the fact that Houston is paying him based on hype is awful.

Brodeur · 10-28-2012, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jballa838

If he misses 1 more shot out of 10 than Harden, but he makes up for it by actually being a competent passer, I'll take that trade.

Harden is great at running to the basket, falling over and getting a foul call, meanwhile Stephen Curry superior at passing, shooting, getting steals, getting rebounds, leading a team, and doing things basketball players are expected to do. Harden is the 5th best guard in that draft class, and he could end up being 6th depending on Demar Derozan's development. He isn't worth the money he's about to be getting paid, and the fact that Houston is paying him based on hype is awful.

Umm, no. Best guards from that class...

1. Harden
2. Lawson
3. Rubio
4. Curry

The rest is a crapshoot. Also, Harden is a better rebounder than Curry, so not sure what you mean by that. Factor in that Harden can actually stay healthy on two functioning ankles, turns the ball over less, plays better defense, and CAN slash (***** about him throwing his body at people all you want, he can get to the line and Curry can't). Plus, you're comparing a point guard (a very, very strong position right now) to a shooting guard (a weak position).

Also, don't ever say that DeRozan will be better than Harden, because that's a ******* joke. DeRozan is awful.

yo123 · 10-28-2012, 06:58 PM

Demar Derozan being better than James Harden is a good place to stop this argument.

scottyboy · 10-28-2012, 07:00 PM

to be fair, the Nets didn't offer Lopez a max to start, we matched the Bobcats and Blazers offers. And yes, we had to, because there'd be no other starting center for us

Brodeur · 10-28-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

to be fair, the Nets didn't offer Lopez a max to start, we matched the Bobcats and Blazers offers. And yes, we had to, because there'd be no other starting center for us

I'd rather play a frontcourt of Teletovic/Humphries with Evans and someone else off the bench than overpay Bropez.

Da-Phins · 10-28-2012, 07:05 PM

Ah come on guys. Be nice to James Harden :(

Apparently Rockets offer to the Magic was Martin,Lamb,Parsons and three 1st round picks....someone tell me how the **** that wasnt better then what Orlando ended up getting?

Rob S · 10-28-2012, 07:06 PM

Anyone who would rather pay Steph Curry than Harden is on something real strong.

scottyboy · 10-28-2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

I'd rather play a frontcourt of Teletovic/Humphries with Evans and someone else off the bench than overpay Bropez.

I thought you were going to stop trolling. There's literally no chance Hump could ever play the 5. He can't guard 4's. Bropez isn't a max player, but gives us the best shot. He's a 7 footer with a very good offensive game. You know that 7 footers have more value than 2 guards, no matter what their flaws, come on now.

SickwithIt1010 · 10-28-2012, 07:25 PM

I guess in the way Brody said it you can argue Harden is a max player...but outside of Deron none of those guys DESERVE the max...they just get it because basketball is a dumb game as far as the economic part.