NBA Discussion Thread

[nobodyinparticular]

Originally Posted by jballa838

2012 Stats
Harden's per 36 numbers: 19.3 PPG, 4.7 REB, 4.1 AST, 1.0 Steal
Stephen Curry per 36: 18.8 PPG, 4.3 REB, 6.8 AST, 1.8 STL. Better % too.
Jrue Holiday per 36: 14.4 PPG, 3.5 REB, 4.8 AST (career low), 1.7 STL. And he's 21, not 24.

Those are two random players who are roughly the same age that I just pulled out of my head. If Harden's a max player, this CBA was useless and we're all screwed. James Harden is statistically (and by virtue of his play) not a max contract player

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Nice way of forgetting to look at Jrue's percentages, which are pretty ******* important. The main difference is that Curry is godawful at driving and getting to the line, and Harden is one of the best in the league at it. Curry's got good percentages, but that's pretty blah if he's unable to get to the line at all. I mean, he had 47 free throw attempts in 26 games. That's pathetic.

This is absolutely important to keep in mind because Tyreke Evans would also look very similar without looking at percentages. Everyone knows I'm one of his biggest fans remaining and I wouldn't even come close to comparing him side by side with Harden. Specifically look at Harden's amazing efficiency in TS%.

[mdmgrand]

This trade was good for both sides.... The Thunder get a year to decide on Martin because I believe he has an expiring contract, a decent potential guy in Lamb, and two picks (when they happen) will probably be 8 to 14. This is a great way to reshape a team, with two lottery picks to get a center for the future.

[thefalconer]

omg i just had such a ****** fantasy draft.

[Rob S]

Originally Posted by mdmgrand

This trade was good for both sides.... The Thunder get a year to decide on Martin because I believe he has an expiring contract, a decent potential guy in Lamb, and two picks (when they happen) will probably be 8 to 14. This is a great way to reshape a team, with two lottery picks to get a center for the future.

Yeah, and this is exactly why it was an abysmal trade for OKC. Why the **** do you try to reshape a would-be perennial title contender for the next 5+ years?

[Da-Phins]

Originally Posted by mdmgrand

This trade was good for both sides.... The Thunder get a year to decide on Martin because I believe he has an expiring contract, a decent potential guy in Lamb, and two picks (when they happen) will probably be 8 to 14. This is a great way to reshape a team, with two lottery picks to get a center for the future.

The Thunder will only be getting one lotto pick, not two. The 2nd first rounder they got was a top 20 protected pick from the Mavs. But the 2nd rounder they got will be high since its from the Bobcats. So likely the 31st-32nd pick.

[gpngc]

Originally Posted by thefalconer

omg i just had such a ****** fantasy draft.

Tell us more..

My team in a 8-cat 12-team league (I had 2nd pick):

PG: Stephen Curry
G: Mike Conley
SG: Klay Thompson
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Elton Brand
F: Derrick Favors
C: Marcin Gortat
C: Brook Lopez
UT: Mo Williams
UT: Omer Asik
BN: Andre Miller
BN: Jonas Vala
BN: Chauncey Billups
BN: D.J. Augistin
BN: Chandler Parsons
BN: A.J. Price

Few things:

1) I think Derrick Favors is going to be monstrous. If they trade Jefferson or Milsap, he could end up as the biggest steal in Fbball this year. Even if they don't, with 28ish mpg he should put up great numbers. No one has hype for him because he's not a starter yet and he plays in Utah.

2) I should've gotten another PG somewhere along the line.

3) My season comes down to two players. If Curry can stay healthy, he's a top-10 fantasy player and a perfect complement to Durant. And if Lopez can grab a few more rebounds, I should have enough big man stats to compete in all 8 categories each week.

[Ravens1991]

The Wizards were "Semi-Serious" about trading Beal and some other stuff for Harden. It sucks that our ownership is "Semi-Serious" about getting a good team around Wall. Harden would have been perfect for Washington.

[MetSox17]

Then you would have had two ball dominating guards. How would the other guys ever get into rhythm offensively?

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Rob S

Yeah, and this is exactly why it was an abysmal trade for OKC. Why the **** do you try to reshape a would-be perennial title contender for the next 5+ years?

Because Harden was going to leave anyway?

[yo123]

Originally Posted by gpngc

Tell us more..

My team in a 8-cat 12-team league (I had 2nd pick):

PG: Stephen Curry
G: Mike Conley
SG: Klay Thompson
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Elton Brand
F: Derrick Favors
C: Marcin Gortat
C: Brook Lopez
UT: Mo Williams
UT: Omer Asik
BN: Andre Miller
BN: Jonas Vala
BN: Chauncey Billups
BN: D.J. Augistin
BN: Chandler Parsons
BN: A.J. Price

Few things:

1) I think Derrick Favors is going to be monstrous. If they trade Jefferson or Milsap, he could end up as the biggest steal in Fbball this year. Even if they don't, with 28ish mpg he should put up great numbers. No one has hype for him because he's not a starter yet and he plays in Utah.

2) I should've gotten another PG somewhere along the line.

3) My season comes down to two players. If Curry can stay healthy, he's a top-10 fantasy player and a perfect complement to Durant. And if Lopez can grab a few more rebounds, I should have enough big man stats to compete in all 8 categories each week.

I do like Favors as a player, but even if they trade Jefferson or Milsap, Kanter is going to get minutes as well and he's been playing very well in the preseason. Utah is stacked down low.

[Ravens1991]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Then you would have had two ball dominating guards. How would the other guys ever get into rhythm offensively?

A Harden + Nene pick and roll would have been good. Everyone else on the team sucks offensively anyway. Harden is a efficient scorer who can spread the floor, run the pick and roll with Nene. He doesnt have to be the best player on the team and gives us a lot of marketability.

[Rob S]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Because Harden was going to leave anyway?

Not if they gave him the max....they should've paid him and amnestied Perkins if need be. Assuming the luxury tax scares you (which is a really dumb argument seeing as many small market teams have paid it in the past), it was still dumb to trade him now.....at least drag it out until October and see if he caves. It's not like you wouldn't get the same, if not a better, package from Morey who was insanely desperate.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Brodeur

If Brook Lopez is a max player, Harden is a max player. If 2011-2012 Deron Williams is a max player, Harden is a max player. If Joe Johnson is a max player, Harden is a max player. If Batum is nearly a max player, Harden is a max player.

You get my point yet?

There is so much fail in this post I don't know where to start. Lopez was a max player because he's a talented BIG. You can't justify saying Harden is a max player because Brooks got it. That's comparing apples to oranges. Bigs will always get valued higher in the NBA. Deron is a legit superstar at arguably the most important position, where the ball flows through him on nearly every possession. Joe Johnson getting the max is one of the worst decisions made. ...Batum isn't worth it either. Just because some stupid teams decide to dish out their cash like that, doesn't make it acceptable as a smart move. It's not ok to call Harden a max player because even if he got it, it would be considered a stupid move and people will still say he's not worth it.

[Raiderz4Life]

You let him have it D!!

[Wootylicous]

R4L change back your name.

[gpngc]

Originally Posted by yo123

I do like Favors as a player, but even if they trade Jefferson or Milsap, Kanter is going to get minutes as well and he's been playing very well in the preseason. Utah is stacked down low.

I don't think Kanter getting minutes will negatively impact Favors' minutes that much.

Jefferson and Milsap are prone to get injured and both should be on the trade block.

Milsap can also play some 3.

In poker terms, I just think there are so many 'outs' for Favors to get a chance to log big minutes.

Last year during the playoffs he averaged a 2x2 with 29 mpg. In the reg. season he logged 21.3 mpg. That WILL go up. If it gets near 30 he'll be a BEAST.

Unrelated, last time I posted a fantasy team in the MLB thread someone commented on it saying '3B is a bad weak spot for you'. It was Edwin Encarnacion..........

[LTgiants]

Originally Posted by Rob S

Not if they gave him the max....they should've paid him and amnestied Perkins if need be. Assuming the luxury tax scares you (which is a really dumb argument seeing as many small market teams have paid it in the past), it was still dumb to trade him now.....at least drag it out until October and see if he caves. It's not like you wouldn't get the same, if not a better, package from Morey who was insanely desperate.

Didn't you say James Dolan should be afraid of paying the luxury tax as a reason for letting Jeremy Lin go?

So its ok for a small market team to pay the tax but not Dolan who owns one of the biggest market teams in the league?

[MetSox17]

Originally Posted by Rob S

Not if they gave him the max....they should've paid him and amnestied Perkins if need be. Assuming the luxury tax scares you (which is a really dumb argument seeing as many small market teams have paid it in the past), it was still dumb to trade him now.....at least drag it out until October and see if he caves. It's not like you wouldn't get the same, if not a better, package from Morey who was insanely desperate.

Not that i disagree with any of what you're saying, but you made a huge deal about how owners are smart and rich and should not be criticized for making money moves when Jeremy Lin was short changed by the Knicks to avoid paying luxury tax money. The Thunder would have lost a ******** of their revenue if they had to dip that far into the luxury tax. It basically came down to whether ownership wanted to make $20-30 million in gains annually, or $15-20 million.

[bantx]

Harden a young 23 year old stud doesn't deserve a max contract you guys say? 6th man of the year to a very talented roster? He benefited from Westbrook and Durant?? You guys underrate teh **** out of Harden.

If Shawn Marion can get 20 mill a year and Brendan ******* haywood can get 55 million, but Harden isn't worth it.

No arguments has been made to why he doesn't deserve it except that he just he isn't a max contract guy.

[Raiderz4Life]

Just because they're getting tht type of cash doesn't mean they deserve it. You called out people because their argument is Harden isn't a max player but then some of y'all just use other players' contracts as a comparison which is just as weak imo. Just because you get paid X amount doesn't mean you deserve it.

[MetSox17]

It's not a very good argument when you list out some of the worst contracts in the history of the league. Those are they very reason why there was a long hold out and excruciating luxury tax penalties, to keep these stupid owners and GMs from constantly shooting themselves in the foot, and guess what? It's working. Sam Presti just traded away his 23 year old sixth man of the year to avoid paying luxury tax dollars. I don't think it was a good move, but i can't rag on them as much as you all because at the end of the day it was a financial move.

[bantx]

I'm not arguing for OKC I'm arguing the fact that people don't think he hasn't earned a max contract.

[thenewfeature06]

Harden was a highly touted recruit so it can't be too surprising as far as his backround... he went to Arizona State and wanted to be the man and was the man.

Difference is I don't know if you can do such things in the NBA unless you are a superstar or have a great cast around you. If it was me I would have stayed but still don't hate on him for leaving. Houston could be ok down the road but I can't be too confident with how good LAC LAL and OKC are.

[gpngc]

I like Harden a lot but three things stick out to me that I don't like and they all relate to how he's responded to big pressure/change in pressure situations throughout his career.

1) The first-round NCAA tourney game when he was a POY candidate and he shot horribly and they almost got upset.

2) The fact that his numbers are somehow HORRIBLE when he starts games.

3) His performance in last year's Finals after being so unbelievably big the series prior.

It's not fair to assume that he'd fold in the future to the point of not allowing OKC to win a title, but he has an undeniable history of inconsistent performances when circumstances change. I'm sure that was part of how OKC handled his situation.

[MetSox17]

I'm gonna chuckle when his efficiency goes out the window once he has to play 38mpg as a starter and carry the load offensively for a **** Houston team and he isn't getting the benefit of every single call in the lane.