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Old 10-29-2012, 04:00 PM    (permalink
sbh15
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I'm playing devil's advocate here as I have a strong rooting interest in Klein to win it, but why not McCarron? He's got 0 interceptions and is the best offensive player on the best team in the country.
because Alabama would, in all likelihood, still be undefeated without McCarron. he'll be a finalist at this rate, but I wouldn't bet on him to finish ahead of Klein (and I'd contend he doesn't deserve to at this point, anyway)
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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because Alabama would, in all likelihood, still be undefeated without McCarron. he'll be a finalist at this rate, but I wouldn't bet on him to finish ahead of Klein (and I'd contend he doesn't deserve to at this point, anyway)
They would definitely not be undefeated with Phillip "how did I ever get a D1 offer" Ely as their starting QB.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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given the teams they've played, their defense, and their running game? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were undefeated

edit: granted, I thought they had someone better when I made that post.. it would certainly be difficult with a crappy freshman at qb, but Alabama is talented enough to do it

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Old 10-30-2012, 07:22 AM    (permalink
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given the teams they've played, their defense, and their running game? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were undefeated

edit: granted, I thought they had someone better when I made that post.. it would certainly be difficult with a crappy freshman at qb, but Alabama is talented enough to do it
Running game would be hurting because you could load the box. McCarron at least keeps teams honest.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Maybe this is the year a non QB gets it?

Maybe Te'o.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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It is criminal how little Heisman hype Giovani Bernard of UNC gets.....

In 7 games he has run for 930 yards, 10 TDs, with an eye popping 7.4 YPC. On top of that he has 32 receptions for 319 yards and 3 TDs to go along with 12 punt returns for 249 yards (20.75 avg) and 2 TDs.

Scary what his numbers would look like if he hadn't missed 2 games (both likely wins if he played).
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Gio Bernard is no question the most overlooked guy in the country when it comes to this list. The numbers above prove that but the fact is the heisman goes to teams that win which is why I think people need to really think about McCarron for heisman.
Right now my list is (in order):
Te'o, Klein, Smith, Dat Thomas and McCarron
Dat doesnt get enough touches and the may lose games... McCarron will be the QB and offensive star of the #1 team at the end of the year which is a recipe for a heisman winner in these "up in the air" seasons.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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It's Klein IMO by a wide margin, 'his to lose' as they say.

No player is more valuable to the success of his football team. No player seems to be as unstoppable as Klein. His game is very reminiscent of Tebow's, except Klein's throwing motion is less funky.

It's hard for a guy like McCarron to win it, but I also doubt if Alabama would be undefeated with a lesser QB starting for the Tide.

I can't see a one way defensive player ever winning it unless he was a freakish pass rusher, or a DT who stopped the run AND had @ 20 sacks.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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So what did Alabama's win do to McCarron's chances?

Realistically, it is EASY to see he is not the most outstanding player in college football.

But, he will be arguably the most important player on the best team, which I think voters will look at.

Also, he'll likely finish the season with ZERO turnovers, which I'm sure will be a record.

But is there any argument for him after a 154-yard performance, even though he DID lead the game-winning drive?
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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If McCarron finishes the season undefeated AND with zero INTs, he would be a major darkhorse for the Heisman.

I don't care how dominant a team a QB plays for in college, there's never been a QB at a high profile program that's never thrown an INT during the season.
Even if McCarron throws only 3 INTs the entire season, I think he gets some Heisman buzz.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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What is this crap about McCarron and Te'o for Heisman? Game manager and a good linebacker (who wouldn't even be in the discussion if Notre Dame wasn't undefeated). Playing great defense is such a team effort so much moreso than offense, that is why defenders don't win the heisman unless they play both ways or make a bunch of TDs on turnovers and/or special teams. McCarron is riding the wave of a super taltented team to an undefeated season. Glorified game manager. I mean the guy's "signature heisman moment" is throwing a screen and then TJ Yeldon makes an awesome play to make a bunch of people miss and get in the endzone.

Heisman should be list: Collin Klein, Johnny Manziel, Kenjon Barner, Braxton Miller, Marqise Lee. Those 5 should go to New York at this point. They have been the 5 most outstanding players, and that is what the Heisman used to be. Really Manziel should be the clear frontrunner, but he happens to play for Texas A&M and not an undefeated super power. His total offensive statistics this season are insane and eclipse every other QB - and he plays in the "mighty" SEC. Klein should be a close second or 1A.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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What is this crap about McCarron and Te'o for Heisman? Game manager and a good linebacker (who wouldn't even be in the discussion if Notre Dame wasn't undefeated). Playing great defense is such a team effort so much moreso than offense, that is why defenders don't win the heisman unless they play both ways or make a bunch of TDs on turnovers and/or special teams. McCarron is riding the wave of a super taltented team to an undefeated season. Glorified game manager. I mean the guy's "signature heisman moment" is throwing a screen and then TJ Yeldon makes an awesome play to make a bunch of people miss and get in the endzone.

Heisman should be list: Collin Klein, Johnny Manziel, Kenjon Barner, Braxton Miller, Marqise Lee. Those 5 should go to New York at this point. They have been the 5 most outstanding players, and that is what the Heisman used to be.
I agree with you but my questions have to do with what we think the voters think, not what's right...
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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I take it Braxton's signature moment is getting hurt and having the backup QB lead the team to an emphatic win over Purdue? As gaudy as Lee's numbers are there is no way he will win it over a QB or RB. Now we all know A.J. & Manti probably won't win it. No need to rag on them because Braxton is having a great season which basically equates to nothing because of your bowl ban.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Braxton should win it. He's not quite there as a passer and has been inconsistent despite being probably the best runner in the nation, including both runningbacks and quarterbacks. I think with a monster game against Michigan though would warrant him a trip to New York as one of the five finalists. Bowl ban has nothing to do with Braxton. The Heisman goes out before the bowls. Ohio State playing a weak schedule this year will have more to do with it than anything. I mean Griffin won last year on a 3 loss Baylor team that wound up in the Alamo Bowl.

Not really ragging on McCarron and Te'o as much as the system that puts team record over how dominant a player is. McCarron has good stats as a game manager on a great Alabama team with 30 something future NFLers on it. Te'o is a good player on a great defense of an undfefeated team. He's not that dominant though. There have been defensive players on undefeated teams in the past having better or as good of seasons in the past who got no where near the Heisman hype as he is. I think Notre Dame and the name recognition from the year before play a part in that.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Pretty much. It's almost like everyone forgets that they haven't done a damn thing of relevance since Holtz was lisping on the sidelines. I figure Klein leads now. But anything can happen in the next month.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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I just think it's a darn shame that Manziel isn't top 2 on like everyone's list by now. Maybe if he has a killer game against Alabama and upsets them he'll get it, otherwise it's probably Klein's to lose.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Johnny Football is killing it. That kid may give us some serious fits this Saturday.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Braxton should win it. He's not quite there as a passer and has been inconsistent despite being probably the best runner in the nation, including both runningbacks and quarterbacks. I think with a monster game against Michigan though would warrant him a trip to New York as one of the five finalists.
Braxton is a far, far better passer than the guy who is favored to win the Heisman and I agree with you that Brax is probably been the best runner in college football this year. Braxton is better than Klein as a player basically in every way, is more productive and also has carried his team to an undefeated record. I understand a lot of other narratives go into the Heisman voting but if the vote is for best offensive skill position player on a undefeated/1-loss team, Braxton would probably get my vote.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Braxton is a far, far better passer than the guy who is favored to win the Heisman and I agree with you that Brax is probably been the best runner in college football this year. Braxton is better than Klein as a player basically in every way, is more productive and also has carried his team to an undefeated record. I understand a lot of other narratives go into the Heisman voting but if the vote is for best offensive skill position player on a undefeated/1-loss team, Braxton would probably get my vote.
Klein is a better passer than Miller - makes better decisions, has great accuracy and good arm strength. He is makes the offense better. Miller got knocked out of the Purdue game and Guiton came in and pulled off the win. I would argue Martinez is equivalent to Miller as well. Klein is rightfully the Heisman favorite. Johnny Football should be number 2 behind him.

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Braxton isn't even a slightly better than Klein, much less far better. He is a beast of a runner though. He may be the best in college football, regardless of position.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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Is Manziel a true frosh??
He'll get his shot at the Heisman especially playing in the SEC.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:05 PM    (permalink
Cigaro
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Is Manziel a true frosh??
He'll get his shot at the Heisman especially playing in the SEC.
RS FR...............
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
Braxton isn't even a slightly better than Klein, much less far better. He is a beast of a runner though. He may be the best in college football, regardless of position.
I'll agree with this. Klein is a better passer right now. Miller has the tools to be a great passer - strong arm, nimble feet, lightning release. Very raw right now still. Inconsistent mechanics, decision making and accuracy not there yet.

Manziel should win the heisman this year though he won't. Klein should be a close #2.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Another thing to think about with Klein or Barner is that if they both go undefeated, the guy who DOESN'T get the title game bid might get some sympathy votes...
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21 View Post
Johnny Football is killing it. That kid may give us some serious fits this Saturday.
as much as I love a fellow Aggie, Collin Klein is undoubtedly the most deserving of the Heisman
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