Is Jarvis Jones a Von Miller Clone???

[Don Vito]

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

I think the moral of the story is that college sack totals are kind of meaningless. Sometimes a decent pass rusher will just dominate a terrible OL. Sometimes a player won't get the opportunities in college that he did in the pros. Sometimes a player is asked to play in a scheme that doesn't fit his talents very well which hurts production, and sometimes a player lands in a situation that is perfect for him.

I mean, for example:

In 2008 (their final college seasons)
Everette Brown - 13 sacks.
Clay Matthews - 4 sacks.

Since being drafted
Everette Brown - 6 sacks.
Clay Matthews - 38.5 sacks.

So I don't think just looking at cumulative college numbers is indicative of anything. Watch individual matchups of good pass rusher vs. good OT if you want to learn anything, just don't credit a guy overmuch because he got 4 sacks in a game against a FCS opponent lined up across from a guy who will be selling insurance next year.

I agree with this, but let's not lump him in with a bunch of guys who didn't do **** after college just because he has been prodcutive. Would he be a better prospect if he had less sacks? I understand that college success doesn't translate to NFL success but just because he is racking up numbers in college doesn't mean he is going to be Dan Bazuin in the NFL.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew

Watching njx9 hazing newbies is always worth the price of admission.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by njx9

it's not hard to spend 5 minutes watching tape on a guy to see what he fundamentally does well and what will or won't translate to the next level.

You really don't have to watch hours and hours of tape to see how a prospect basically plays. It's kind of surprising how some people seem to think a player's abilities slowly become evident through watching more and more film, and then figure they might as well just look at stats and highlight reels and take the opinion of bloggers, who've probably spent 5 minutes watching some of the players they're writing about. That route might take more time. I mean, if you want to post an opinion of a player just watch a 7-minute every-snap video against a top opponent on Youtube instead of a highlight reel. It's just not hard to find anymore.

[brat316]

Vandy's LT is going to be an all pro, in run blocking.

[DraftSwag]

Originally Posted by njx9

blah blah credentials blah i'm not in junior high blah blah still can't actually post anything about how he actually plays blah blah guarantee a bunch of utter **** without any citation or back up blah blah.

cool story, bro. care to cite any specific nonsense, or anyplace i've ever suggested i don't think he's a good player? your arguments are garbage. nothing you've said so far is a valid argument for jones. period. stats and crying about the sec is idiotic. notice how no one else is doing it? of course you don't. because you don't actually have any idea how scouting works. you saw a couple of good plays on saturday, heard the announcers mention some numbers, and decided the guy was incredible. pointing at numbers is worthless discussion. talking about how he plays is not. you've done one and completely failed to do the other. the fact that you simply want to attack me says enough.

Production and competing against top competition isn't valid? Your a clown. The dude has separated himself more than anyone you can name in College Football and your saying I have no valid arguments. Your not making any sense. Not only can I forget more about the scouting process than you could ever know, but I'm so good that I made a scouting report for you. It says your a fat couch potato that probably never played the game.

Dudes like you try to prove how much you know about football when trying to grade a guy out. How about this. Go asked every talent evaluator in the country about Jarvis Jones and they'll tell you he's a top 5 pick. Then toss on the tape and watch him perform at a higher level than anyone else on the field. Only thing stopping Jarvis Jones from being a big time player is any sort of medical or character issues or if he's not in a defense that puts him in positon to make big plays. When a guy continuously makes big plays like TFL's, Sacks, INT's it means they have a knack for the football. Certain stats indicate what kind of player a guy has the potential to be. If I was naming tackles and stats like that I could respect you stance on this ( Manti Te'o).

Like I said on my previous post. Scouting isn't rocket science particularly when your talking about guys that lead the country in relevant statistics. I'll take Jones over any guy you can name and I'll break it down in a scouting report for you. A REAL scouting report. I see your the Discussion Board HERO and probably think your God's gift to draftniks, but as far as i'm concerned your grade in evaluating talent is a undrafted free agent that has little chance to make the team.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

Production and competing against top competition isn't valid? Your a clown. The dude has separated himself more than anyone you can name in College Football and your saying I have no valid arguments. Your not making any sense. Not only can I forget more about the scouting process than you could ever know, but I'm so good that I made a scouting report for you. It says your a fat couch potato that probably never played the game.

Dudes like you try to prove how much you know about football when trying to grade a guy out. How about this. Go asked every talent evaluator in the country about Jarvis Jones and they'll tell you he's a top 5 pick. Then toss on the tape and watch him perform at a higher level than anyone else on the field. Only thing stopping Jarvis Jones from being a big time player is any sort of medical or character issues or if he's not in a defense that puts him in positon to make big plays. When a guy continuously makes big plays like TFL's, Sacks, INT's it means they have a knack for the football. Certain stats indicate what kind of player a guy has the potential to be. If I was naming tackles and stats like that I could respect you stance on this ( Manti Te'o).

Like I said on my previous post. Scouting isn't rocket science particularly when your talking about guys that lead the country in relevant statistics. I'll take Jones over any guy you can name and I'll break it down in a scouting report for you. A REAL scouting report. I see your the Discussion Board HERO and probably think your God's gift to draftniks, but as far as i'm concerned your grade in evaluating talent is a undrafted free agent that has little chance to make the team.

I see you are a little upset with njx9's comments and you are lashing out. However, a little off topic I know, but in future could you please say you're instead of your when meaning you are??? Thanks in advance.

Now back to the lovely little post you made, could you please tell me how Jarvis Jones is this all world prospect without bringing up his competition? I'm not saying I disagree that he is but I would like to know why you believe it so much.

Tell me what he does well. Tell me what he needs to improve on. Tell me in what situation you think he will thrive in in the NFL and in what situation he will be disadvantaged.

If this is too tough for you to do maybe you can speak to one of the NFL scouts and decision makers you seem to know so well. Go on, just get Rex Ryan on speed dial and see what he thinks and then just write what he said.

[brat316]

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

Production and competing against top competition isn't valid? Your a clown. The dude has separated himself more than anyone you can name in College Football and your saying I have no valid arguments. Your not making any sense. Not only can I forget more about the scouting process than you could ever know, but I'm so good that I made a scouting report for you. It says your a fat couch potato that probably never played the game.

Dudes like you try to prove how much you know about football when trying to grade a guy out. How about this. Go asked every talent evaluator in the country about Jarvis Jones and they'll tell you he's a top 5 pick. Then toss on the tape and watch him perform at a higher level than anyone else on the field. Only thing stopping Jarvis Jones from being a big time player is any sort of medical or character issues or if he's not in a defense that puts him in positon to make big plays. When a guy continuously makes big plays like TFL's, Sacks, INT's it means they have a knack for the football. Certain stats indicate what kind of player a guy has the potential to be. If I was naming tackles and stats like that I could respect you stance on this ( Manti Te'o).

Like I said on my previous post. Scouting isn't rocket science particularly when your talking about guys that lead the country in relevant statistics. I'll take Jones over any guy you can name and I'll break it down in a scouting report for you. A REAL scouting report. I see your the Discussion Board HERO and probably think your God's gift to draftniks, but as far as i'm concerned your grade in evaluating talent is a undrafted free agent that has little chance to make the team.

Watch the video i just posted. He doesn't stand out in that game, he was washed out by the LT on run plays. He did a nice job holding the edge a few times. And has a good bull rush on a few plays, but never seemed to finish.

[DraftSwag]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I see you are a little upset with njx9's comments and you are lashing out. However, a little off topic I know, but in future could you please say you're instead of your when meaning you are??? Thanks in advance.

Now back to the lovely little post you made, could you please tell me how Jarvis Jones is this all world prospect without bringing up his competition? I'm not saying I disagree that he is but I would like to know why you believe it so much.

Tell me what he does well. Tell me what he needs to improve on. Tell me in what situation you think he will thrive in in the NFL and in what situation he will be disadvantaged.

If this is too tough for you to do maybe you can speak to one of the NFL scouts and decision makers you seem to know so well. Go on, just get Rex Ryan on speed dial and see what he thinks and then just write what he said.

Thanks for the grammar lesson. Maybe your more suited to teach English rather than evaluate football players. Jarvis Jones from the little bit of tape I have seen essentially has all the tools. Not only can he rush the passer, he also can drop back in coverage and is a relentless tackler. If you check some of his stuff out he's strong enough to engage then shed and athletic enough to just flat out get around unathletic lineman. He has the size to play in both a 4-3 and 3-4 so that adds more value. If he wasn't playing for Georgia and clearly separated himself as the best player on a team that has damn near more NFL talent than every other school in the country I would understand why you continue to have me justify why he is a stud. The proof is in the pudding buddy. Oh yeah and lets do a brief character check and find out if he's soft. Left USC because they wouldn't let him play with a devastating neck injury. 3 years later is the best defensive player in College football. I bet Lane wished he didn't doubt his abilities like you.

[JHL6719]

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

Watch the video i just posted. He doesn't stand out in that game, he was washed out by the LT on run plays. He did a nice job holding the edge a few times. And has a good bull rush on a few plays, but never seemed to finish.

He was still injured against Vanderbilt after missing the game a week earlier against FAU because of a pulled groin. Go watch the dominant performance he put on against Missouri.... he did it with a pulled groin. Incredible.

He still had a fine game against Vanderbilt racking up 3 TFL's and a sack. In the video you posted what you'll see is a guy who plays with great leverage against Wesley Johnson, who is an offensive tackle he's giving up about 50 pounds to.

Jones is not getting blocked to the extent that you seem to think he is. He's able to keep one arm free in the proper gap which is what allows him to disengage and not stay blocked. If you want to see what staying blocked looks like, watch Mingo.

[DraftSwag]

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

Vandy's LT is going to be an all pro, in run blocking.

Just watched the tape and it's actually impressive and shows his versatility. Not only does he show that he can take on blockers, but the thing that I noticed the most about him is his balance and his ability to change direction when he is engaged. He has relentless pursuit to the football and I completely agree that this guy can play Inside Linebacker. Look how comfortable he is when he drops back into coverage. The dude looks like he's always trying to make a play. Look at the bounce he has and how he's always on his toes. If this guy is a All Pro at OT then Jarvis is gonna be a stud. Another thing that separates Jarvis from lot's of guys I've seen that get hyped up is that he is disciplined. He doesn't just pull his ears back and rush the passer. There is one play where he just blows up the tackle and pushes him back 3 yards. Those are the type of things evaluators look for and to add insult to injury I saw two sacks on that brief highlight????? What's your point.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

Thanks for the grammar lesson. Maybe your more suited to teach English rather than evaluate football players. Jarvis Jones from the little bit of tape I have seen essentially has all the tools. Not only can he rush the passer, he also can drop back in coverage and is a relentless tackler. If you check some of his stuff out he's strong enough to engage then shed and athletic enough to just flat out get around unathletic lineman. He has the size to play in both a 4-3 and 3-4 so that adds more value. If he wasn't playing for Georgia and clearly separated himself as the best player on a team that has damn near more NFL talent than every other school in the country I would understand why you continue to have me justify why he is a stud. The proof is in the pudding buddy. Oh yeah and lets do a brief character check and find out if he's soft. Left USC because they wouldn't let him play with a devastating neck injury. 3 years later is the best defensive player in College football. I bet Lane wished he didn't doubt his abilities like you.

I am a little confused here. I wasn't sure at any point I said I didn't think Jones was a top prospect. In fact Jones started the year in my top 3 draft eligible prospects. He hasn't had close to the type of year he had last year and pretty soon after the Georgia game (where he most definitely was not the best player on the field) he dropped into the mid teens of my rankings. He has played better in recent weeks though.

Here's the thing with Jones;

He doesn't have a varied pass rush repertoire - he beats guys with speed mainly
He is a straight line guy - not much fluidity to his game (may in part be due to a groin injury this year)
Is adequate in coverage, not great but not a liability
Is he scheme diverse or scheme specific??? - He looks like an ideal fit as a weakside rush backer in a 34. Can he play down end in an even front? Can he play standing up in a 43???

The guy can play though.

Every single prospect has weaknesses. What you are doing is covering up his weakness by saying he dominates on the field. So did Tim Tebow. So did Vernon Gholston. These guys didn't make it in the NFL because their strengths didn't translate to the big league. I think Jones will have infinitely more success in the NFL than these guys did but you can be damn sure it's not because he dominated in the SECZZZZZ

[JHL6719]

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

Just watched the tape and it's actually impressive and shows his versatility. Not only does he show that he can take on blockers, but the thing that I noticed the most about him is his balance and his ability to change direction when he is engaged. He has relentless pursuit to the football and I completely agree that this guy can play Inside Linebacker. Look how comfortable he is when he drops back into coverage. The dude looks like he's always trying to make a play. Look at the bounce he has and how he's always on his toes. If this guy is a All Pro at OT then Jarvis is gonna be a stud. Another thing that separates Jarvis from lot's of guys I've seen that get hyped up is that he is disciplined. He doesn't just pull his ears back and rush the passer. There is one play where he just blows up the tackle and pushes him back 3 yards. Those are the type of things evaluators look for and to add insult to injury I saw two sacks on that brief highlight????? What's your point.

This is astute scouting here. Quality coaches don't just let their best pass rushers pin their ears back and rush the passer every down, especially against mobile quarterbacks who are a threat to hurt you with their legs.

It's called maintaining leverage on the football, as opposed to trying to gain leverage on the guy lined up across from you. One is disciplined football with gap integrity of the utmost importance, the other isn't.

This is why the most dangerous running threat QB's in the country like Denard Robinson have nowhere to go against a defense like Bama's. Saban preaches maintaining leverage on the football and staying disciplined. Do your job.

If the situation calls for rushing the passer in an undisciplined manner in which gap integrity isn't as significant, they'll do it.

[DraftSwag]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I am a little confused here. I wasn't sure at any point I said I didn't think Jones was a top prospect. In fact Jones started the year in my top 3 draft eligible prospects. He hasn't had close to the type of year he had last year and pretty soon after the Georgia game (where he most definitely was not the best player on the field) he dropped into the mid teens of my rankings. He has played better in recent weeks though.

Here's the thing with Jones;

He doesn't have a varied pass rush repertoire - he beats guys with speed mainly
He is a straight line guy - not much fluidity to his game (may in part be due to a groin injury this year)
Is adequate in coverage, not great but not a liability
Is he scheme diverse or scheme specific??? - He looks like an ideal fit as a weakside rush backer in a 34. Can he play down end in an even front? Can he play standing up in a 43???

The guy can play though.

Every single prospect has weaknesses. What you are doing is covering up his weakness by saying he dominates on the field. So did Tim Tebow. So did Vernon Gholston. These guys didn't make it in the NFL because their strengths didn't translate to the big league. I think Jones will have infinitely more success in the NFL than these guys did but you can be damn sure it's not because he dominated in the SECZZZZZ

I just watched that brief highlight against Vanderbilt and I have no idea what your talking about saying he is a straight line guy. Probably the thing that separates him the most is probably his ability to change direction and balance. Look at his ball pursuit and he's a linebacker not a defensive lineman so he doesn't need an array of pass rushing moves. Everything that I have seen on this guy shows that he is an all around linebacker that could play multiple positions. He's just a natural athlete, I wouldn't be surprised if you talked to his coaches and they didn't say he could play offense. I'll repost the video for you so you can reevaluate your evaluation of Jarvis Jones, because some of the stuff you said is completely wrong.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by JHL6719

He still had a fine game against Vanderbilt racking up 3 TFL's and a sack. In the video you posted what you'll see is a guy who plays with great leverage against Wesley Johnson, who is an offensive tackle he's giving up about 50 pounds to.

GUUUUUGH. I was going to make a post about that video, but you just made my point for me. Perfect example of a game where someone's going to look at him having a handful of tackles and statistical evidence of his presence behind the line of scrimmage and take it as proof that he's NFL-ready. You simply must look at the individual plays. He did nothing but run around making plays in other parts of the field. That's the thing about him that bugs me. He never makes plays where he lines up. If he lines up at OLB, and they run right at him, chances are they're making yards. It's almost like when they're defending against him, what they're really doing is making sure he doesn't catch the play from the backside. And that's why I think I don't see a top NFL talent here. Sure, he's a major disruptive force on his college team and he's put up a lot of stats, but he's not so much the hammer of his defense as the broom - he's always running cleanup after the rest of the front 7 locks it up.

On his sack, the guy assigned to block him was a pulling tight end. That's what outside linebackers dream about. He saw it coming, anticipated it, timed the snap count right and blew right by him. It was a good-looking play, he did it perfectly, but it's a +1 in the sack column that NFL scouts aren't going to take very seriously. It's just a number. It doesn't mean he can get past an NFL offensive tackle. Other plays behind the line of scrimmage were often situations where the play went away from him, got stuffed, and he gets the TFL from a trailing position. He's not doing anything wrong, and is doing exactly what you expect him to do in that situation, but that's where the stat is coming from. He's not bowling anyone over into the backfield. His game against Mizzou has also been mentioned as an example of how good he's supposed to be, but there were a few times in that game where they ran right at him and a single Mizzou lineman was able to wash him 5 yards towards the sideline and opened huuuuuuuge holes up the outside. He has a tendency to look completely ineffective when he gets locked onto.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

You really don't have to watch hours and hours of tape to see how a prospect basically plays. It's kind of surprising how some people seem to think a player's abilities slowly become evident through watching more and more film, and then figure they might as well just look at stats and highlight reels and take the opinion of bloggers, who've probably spent 5 minutes watching some of the players they're writing about. That route might take more time. I mean, if you want to post an opinion of a player just watch a 7-minute every-snap video against a top opponent on Youtube instead of a highlight reel. It's just not hard to find anymore.

absolutely agree, for the purposes of this board.

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

Production and competing against top competition isn't valid? Your a clown. The dude has separated himself more than anyone you can name in College Football and your saying I have no valid arguments. Your not making any sense. Not only can I forget more about the scouting process than you could ever know, but I'm so good that I made a scouting report for you. It says your a fat couch potato that probably never played the game.

Dudes like you try to prove how much you know about football when trying to grade a guy out. How about this. Go asked every talent evaluator in the country about Jarvis Jones and they'll tell you he's a top 5 pick. Then toss on the tape and watch him perform at a higher level than anyone else on the field. Only thing stopping Jarvis Jones from being a big time player is any sort of medical or character issues or if he's not in a defense that puts him in positon to make big plays. When a guy continuously makes big plays like TFL's, Sacks, INT's it means they have a knack for the football. Certain stats indicate what kind of player a guy has the potential to be. If I was naming tackles and stats like that I could respect you stance on this ( Manti Te'o).

Like I said on my previous post. Scouting isn't rocket science particularly when your talking about guys that lead the country in relevant statistics. I'll take Jones over any guy you can name and I'll break it down in a scouting report for you. A REAL scouting report. I see your the Discussion Board HERO and probably think your God's gift to draftniks, but as far as i'm concerned your grade in evaluating talent is a undrafted free agent that has little chance to make the team.

*yawn* quote one time i've suggested, even implied, any assessment of jones on this board. can't? so is there a reason you're still talking about my scouting ability? there are a LOT of people here who are way better at evaluating talent than i am, but they also don't just post stats and put "SEC" on repeat and act like they've added something insightful. if that's all you've got, re-read the thread. re-read some of the valid criticism and praise people have given jones. then ask what the difference is between what they've said and what you've said.

you keep reposting opinion as if it's fact, making absurd guarantees about things, and going back to production as your sole benchmark, in spite of overwhelming evidence that it's a really bad one.

seriously. watch his tape. even a highlight reel. then talk about what he does, specifically, that you think is elite. talk about his speed, or his technique. talk about how the way he beats a tackle is something that will translate to the nfl. that's a real discussion about a prospect. repeating the same retread crap isn't.

[DraftSwag]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

GUUUUUGH. I was going to make a post about that video, but you just made my point for me. He did nothing but run around making plays in other parts of the field. That's the thing about him that bugs me. He never makes plays where he lines up. If he lines up at OLB, and they run right at him, chances are they're making yards. It's almost like when they're defending against him, what they're really doing is making sure he doesn't catch the play from the backside. And that's why I think I don't see a top NFL talent here. Sure, he's a major disruptive force on his college team and he's put up a lot of stats, but he's not so much the hammer of his defense as the broom - he's always running cleanup after the rest of the front 7 locks it up.

On his sack, the guy assigned to block him was a pulling tight end. That's what outside linebackers dream about. He saw it coming, anticipated it, timed the snap count right and blew right by him. It was a good-looking play, he did it perfectly, but it's a +1 in the sack column that NFL scouts aren't going to take very seriously. It's just a number. It doesn't mean he can get past an NFL offensive tackle. Other plays behind the line of scrimmage were often situations where the play went away from him, got stuffed, and he gets the TFL from a trailing position. He's not doing anything wrong, and is doing exactly what you expect him to do in that situation, but that's where the stat is coming from. He's not bowling anyone over into the backfield. His game against Mizzou has also been mentioned as an example of how good he's supposed to be, but there were a few times in that game where they ran right at him and a single Mizzou lineman was able to wash him 5 yards towards the sideline and opened huuuuuuuge holes up the outside. He has a tendency to look completely ineffective when he gets locked onto.

I'm not sure if you haven't check, but the NFL has turned into a passing league not a smash mouth see who the strongest guy on the field is. If you want tough guys then go watch Big Ten football. The NFL is about athletes this isn't the 1980's anymore buddy and Jarvis shows ability to fill gaps so I still don't know what your talking about. If the dude was getting caked it would be one thing. For the defender a stalemate is a win anything more is extra and with Jarvis you get a whole bunch of extra thats why he's a top 5 pick.

[JHL6719]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

GUUUUUGH. I was going to make a post about that video, but you just made my point for me. He did nothing but run around making plays in other parts of the field. That's the thing about him that bugs me. He never makes plays where he lines up. If he lines up at OLB, and they run right at him, chances are they're making yards. It's almost like when they're defending against him, what they're really doing is making sure he doesn't catch the play from the backside. And that's why I think I don't see a top NFL talent here. Sure, he's a major disruptive force on his college team and he's put up a lot of stats, but he's not so much the hammer of his defense as the broom - he's always running cleanup after the rest of the front 7 locks it up.

On his sack, the guy assigned to block him was a pulling tight end. That's what outside linebackers dream about. He saw it coming, anticipated it, timed the snap count right and blew right by him. It was a good-looking play, he did it perfectly, but it's a +1 in the sack column that NFL scouts aren't going to take very seriously. It's just a number. It doesn't mean he can get past an NFL offensive tackle. Other plays behind the line of scrimmage were often situations where the play went away from him, got stuffed, and he gets the TFL from a trailing position. He's not doing anything wrong, and is doing exactly what you expect him to do in that situation, but that's where the stat is coming from. He's not bowling anyone over into the backfield. His game against Mizzou has also been mentioned as an example of how good he's supposed to be, but there were a few times in that game where they ran right at him and a single Mizzou lineman was able to wash him 5 yards towards the sideline and opened huuuuuuuge holes up the outside. He has a tendency to look completely ineffective when he gets locked onto.

You basically just described Von Miller's liability in the run defense at aTm. Furthermore, I just don't believe you've watched Jarvis Jones on a down to down basis in every game he's played this year. This guy plays outstanding run defense far too often to be considered a liability, and he'll be selected in the top 10 of the NFL draft for a reason. I watch him every week.

Clowney will probably be the #1 pick next year and I watch him get flat out pancaked. I've never seen that happen to Jones. Ever. I'm not sure what your point is...

He's most definitely the hammer of UGA's defense, that I'll guarantee. The difference is he's also athletic enough to be the broom.

Bad run defenses have the safeties cleaning up and being the broom, leading the team in tackles because the front 7 isn't doing their job.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

The proof is in the pudding buddy

oh, it's you. nice new account.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by JHL6719

You basically just described Von Miller's liability in the run defense at aTm.

I don't dispute that. The difference is that Jones doesn't have the same pass-rushing ability as Von Miller. That's why Von Miller was drafted so high. You don't draft a prospect in the top ten because he's gotten a lot of collegiate sacks and is a Von Miller-calibre run defender. It's not an insult, but maybe you take him in the second round. Point is, I think there are going to be more than ten other players in this draft who offer something more valauble than what Jones does, which is why I don't consider him an elite prospect. I'm not trying to make you think he sucks at football, you're trying to convince me he's an elite prospect.

Furthermore, I just don't believe you've watched Jarvis Jones on a down to down basis in every game he's played this year.

You don't have to watch every single game. I saw him do good things, I saw him do bad things, I came away not feeling like I was watching a future NFL Pro Bowler.

[y.f.s.]

That awkward moment when the idiot doesn't realize nobody is really disagreeing with him, and they're just pointing out that his argument sucks.

Aliquippa don't miss, y'all.

[JHL6719]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

I don't dispute that. The difference is that Jones doesn't have the same pass-rushing ability as Von Miller. That's why Von Miller was drafted so high. You don't draft a prospect in the top ten because he's gotten a lot of collegiate sacks and is a Von Miller-calibre run defender. It's not an insult, but maybe you take him in the second round. Point is, I think there are going to be more than ten other players in this draft who offer something more valauble than what Jones does, which is why I don't consider him an elite prospect. I'm not trying to make you think he sucks at football, you're trying to convince me he's an elite prospect.



You don't have to watch every single game. I saw him do good things, I saw him do bad things, I came away not feeling like I was watching a future NFL Pro Bowler.

He certainly has the ability to be a pro-bowl caliber player, but I won't guarantee that. There's too many variables that can affect something like that. The only concern I have in regards to Jarvis Jones is the injury history, but I feel good about it because I've seen him play hurt and literally dominate games.

However, Jones is not the same level of run defender that Miller was. Jones is significantly better in that aspect... to the point that it is considered a strength, especially for a guy who's always playing from a 2-point stance.

A lot of what he does will translate to the NFL. If he stays healthy the ability to be a pro-bowl player is there in the right system and he should back up what he displays on the field by testing well athletically. Although probably won't test quite as well as Von Miller, but who does?

Von Miller had special and rare athletic qualities, where Jones is more well rounded as a football player and in his physicality.

[AntoinCD]

Getting back to actually discussing Jones' abilities rather than how awesome he is for dominating SEC OTs here's a quick run down of 20 plays against Missouri. They are taken from youtube, but unfortunately we aren't all close with NFL GMs and scouts and don't get access to All 22 film

Against Missouri on youtube

First play – lines up to the left side of the offense. Hand off to the back to the right side. Jones runs across the line unblocked to assist in a tackle for 4 yards. Not a bad play but a play any college LB would make.
Second play – lines up over the RT. High snap over the QBs head. Play blown dead shortly after.
Third play – lines up over LT. Uses a bull rush and gets a little push. Quick throw by QB which was incomplete.
Fourth play – lines up over LT. Option play. Jones is unblocked in the backfield. Mis reads the play and ends up stuck in no man’s land while the QB gains 4 yards up the middle.
Fifth play – lines up over RT. High snap again to QB who manages to hang on. Jones is once again unblocked and hits the QB in the backfield but is unable to stop a positive gain of 2 yards.
Sixth play – lines up over LT. Blocked by pulling TE from far side of the formation. Quick throw for a first down by QB.
Seventh play – lines up over RT. Times snap perfectly and is past the RT before he gets out of his stance. Untouched to the QB who is forced to throw the ball away quickly. Intentional grounding.
Eight play – lines up over RT. Explodes past him up field, however the play is a designed QB keeper and the ball is run right where Jones had lined up for a big gain.
Ninth play – lines up over LT. Hand off the back who runs behind LT. Jones can’t disengage until the back is already passed him. Assist with tackle for approx. 5 yards
Tenth play – lines up over LT. Quick sneak. Jones had no chance on this play.
Eleventh play – lines up over RT. Option play, QB kept it. Jones stayed home on this play but his tackle lacked any violence and the QB fell forward for a gain of 2 yards.
Twelfth play – lines up over RT. Hand off to run behind RT. Jones is knocked back two yards off the line and finishes the play on his back.
Thirteenth play – lines up over RT. RT seals the edge allowing QB to make large gain up the middle. Jones shows good hustle to finally tackle the QB and cause a fumble
Fourteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield. Makes good read on RB and makes an athletic tackle. Fumble caused at handoff between QB and RB
Fifteenth play – lines up over LT. Initially blocked by LT and LG also helps out. Incomplete pass. Jones had no impact on incompletion though.
Sixteenth play – lines up over RT. Gets by him with speed but unable to get near QB due to quick throw.
Seventeenth play – lines up over RT. Good burst off the edge and RT can only get a slight hand on him. Runs QB down from behind and forces a fumble although arm coming forward so incomplete.
Eighteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield on QB run. Ankle tap saves this to no gain.
Nineteenth play – lines up over RT. Cut block knocks him down and he is unable to get back into the play.
Twentieth play – lines up over RT. Starts upfield and uses and up and under move to get inside. Ball already thrown though.


Very short sample but here's a few things from it. For such a feared pass rusher there were a lot of times he was unblocked.

The one play where he lined up off the line of scrimmage he appeared to be slow to diagnose the play.

He over ran far too many plays for a guy who has been labeled as "disciplined" in this thread.

I wouldn't be comfortable with him playing off the line of scrimmage on a play by play basis. Once again I am seeing a guy who could be a 34 OLB and a good one but not a lot else.

The big question I have is, is Jarvis Jones a good pass rusher or a good blitzer? I don't see a consistency of pass rush moves or counters in his game. He gets by with explosive burst and good timing of the snap. This aspect of his game is pretty close to Adalius Thomas. Both different types of LB, however neither strike me as a guy who can line up and rush the passer on a consistent basis and be continually successful ala Demarcus Ware

[DraftSwag]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Getting back to actually discussing Jones' abilities rather than how awesome he is for dominating SEC OTs here's a quick run down of 20 plays against Missouri. They are taken from youtube, but unfortunately we aren't all close with NFL GMs and scouts and don't get access to All 22 film

Against Missouri on youtube

First play – lines up to the left side of the offense. Hand off to the back to the right side. Jones runs across the line unblocked to assist in a tackle for 4 yards. Not a bad play but a play any college LB would make.
Second play – lines up over the RT. High snap over the QBs head. Play blown dead shortly after.
Third play – lines up over LT. Uses a bull rush and gets a little push. Quick throw by QB which was incomplete.
Fourth play – lines up over LT. Option play. Jones is unblocked in the backfield. Mis reads the play and ends up stuck in no man’s land while the QB gains 4 yards up the middle.
Fifth play – lines up over RT. High snap again to QB who manages to hang on. Jones is once again unblocked and hits the QB in the backfield but is unable to stop a positive gain of 2 yards.
Sixth play – lines up over LT. Blocked by pulling TE from far side of the formation. Quick throw for a first down by QB.
Seventh play – lines up over RT. Times snap perfectly and is past the RT before he gets out of his stance. Untouched to the QB who is forced to throw the ball away quickly. Intentional grounding.
Eight play – lines up over RT. Explodes past him up field, however the play is a designed QB keeper and the ball is run right where Jones had lined up for a big gain.
Ninth play – lines up over LT. Hand off the back who runs behind LT. Jones can’t disengage until the back is already passed him. Assist with tackle for approx. 5 yards
Tenth play – lines up over LT. Quick sneak. Jones had no chance on this play.
Eleventh play – lines up over RT. Option play, QB kept it. Jones stayed home on this play but his tackle lacked any violence and the QB fell forward for a gain of 2 yards.
Twelfth play – lines up over RT. Hand off to run behind RT. Jones is knocked back two yards off the line and finishes the play on his back.
Thirteenth play – lines up over RT. RT seals the edge allowing QB to make large gain up the middle. Jones shows good hustle to finally tackle the QB and cause a fumble
Fourteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield. Makes good read on RB and makes an athletic tackle. Fumble caused at handoff between QB and RB
Fifteenth play – lines up over LT. Initially blocked by LT and LG also helps out. Incomplete pass. Jones had no impact on incompletion though.
Sixteenth play – lines up over RT. Gets by him with speed but unable to get near QB due to quick throw.
Seventeenth play – lines up over RT. Good burst off the edge and RT can only get a slight hand on him. Runs QB down from behind and forces a fumble although arm coming forward so incomplete.
Eighteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield on QB run. Ankle tap saves this to no gain.
Nineteenth play – lines up over RT. Cut block knocks him down and he is unable to get back into the play.
Twentieth play – lines up over RT. Starts upfield and uses and up and under move to get inside. Ball already thrown though.


Very short sample but here's a few things from it. For such a feared pass rusher there were a lot of times he was unblocked.

The one play where he lined up off the line of scrimmage he appeared to be slow to diagnose the play.

He over ran far too many plays for a guy who has been labeled as "disciplined" in this thread.

I wouldn't be comfortable with him playing off the line of scrimmage on a play by play basis. Once again I am seeing a guy who could be a 34 OLB and a good one but not a lot else.

The big question I have is, is Jarvis Jones a good pass rusher or a good blitzer? I don't see a consistency of pass rush moves or counters in his game. He gets by with explosive burst and good timing of the snap. This aspect of his game is pretty close to Adalius Thomas. Both different types of LB, however neither strike me as a guy who can line up and rush the passer on a consistent basis and be continually successful ala Demarcus Ware

I think your looking to hard.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

I think your looking to hard.

*shrug* i'm pretty sure you're not even looking.

[FUNBUNCHER]

UF is better than Mizzou. Jarvis Jones had a better game against the Gators, and he basically beasted at will against Missouri.

Don't forget that Von Miller didn't become a consensus top 3 pick until AFTER the combine. When you added his elite measurables to his outstanding game film, Von became the best 43 OLB/DE prospect in the 2011 draft.

Jarvis Jones could run a 4.8 at Georgia's pro day and still be a lock top 12 pick. The positives in his game far outweigh any potential downside.
BTW to get a real feel for what a prospect can and cannot do, you need to watch them play consecutive series, not a handful of plays.
How do they play when they're tired?? How do they adjust to an offense schemed to neutralize their effectiveness?? How do they play late in close games??

There are some things you can't get a read on about a prospect unless you watch them play 25+ consecutive snaps in a game.

I've never seen so much jawing over a prospect many already consider one of the top 5 defenders available in the 2013 draft!lol