Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > New England Patriots Team Forum

New England Patriots Team Forum Discuss the Pats

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2012, 09:27 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,776
Reputation: 1685610
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

What we had in the secondary simply wasn't acceptable. While this could be an enormous swing and miss, at the end of the day it's only a 4th round pick and we've cut a ton of these kinds of picks in the past 5 years. If Talib can come in and put together acceptable cornerback play for the remainder of the year, we already come out ahead in this deal IMO. Continuing with Arrington playing a majority of the snaps was not an acceptable solution, and would ultimately end with us going nowhere again. It might not make any difference, but at least they're acknowledging an obvious problem with a possible solution.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 10:33 PM    (permalink
nameless
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
Reputation: 19241
nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
What we had in the secondary simply wasn't acceptable. While this could be an enormous swing and miss, at the end of the day it's only a 4th round pick and we've cut a ton of these kinds of picks in the past 5 years. If Talib can come in and put together acceptable cornerback play for the remainder of the year, we already come out ahead in this deal IMO. Continuing with Arrington playing a majority of the snaps was not an acceptable solution, and would ultimately end with us going nowhere again. It might not make any difference, but at least they're acknowledging an obvious problem with a possible solution.
That's a good way of putting things. Putting any kind of potential return aside, it's nice to see some kind of admission that we haven't played NFL caliber pass defense this year. After years of draft picks and free agent signings, things have yet to get better. If anything, they've gotten worse and worse. Even if Talib plays just average on the year(even slightly below average), it upgrades what we have at the position already. In a way, it's sort of hitting the reset button. The personnel we run out in the secondary in the second half could be very different than what we saw in the first five or so games.

Assuming his injury wasn't anything serious, Marquice Cole could be challenging for regular playing time between the injuries and general ineptitude. It's a very small sample size, but I'm interested to see what we have there. He played very well in the pre-season and never made it into the mix for whatever reason. I remember seeing a blurb from a writer, possibly Mike Reiss or one of the ESPN Boston guys, that scouts thought he was possibly worthy of starting over the guys we had been putting out.

Dennard has played much better than Arrington did early in the year and looks like he's starting to entrench himself on the outside. I certainly haven't liked everything I've seen there, but he's been serviceable at the very least. Hopefully he'll get even better as the season goes on.

The most interesting part of this trade is what we do with McCourty. There's some smoke out there that we would have moved him to safety at the start of the year if we had felt confident enough in the corners we had. I really think he's played a bit better than he's been given credit for this year(I thought he was every bit as bad as people made him out to be last year), but he's still struggled at times, with his missteps being huge and punitive. Gregory seemed to play decent when he was healthy, but not well enough to be entrenched. Chung is missing huge chunks of time yet again and has yet to show that he can be a part of the solution to the passing game.

We'll have to see how this all shakes out. There's not much to like about Talib off the field, but there's little doubt in my mind that he can potentially help us sort out some of our problems. It's a bit of a desperation move, but there SHOULD be a sense of urgency to finally take steps towards improving the secondary. I'm not completely convinced that the problem can be solved with simply bringing in different personnel, but complacency isn't the answer either.

Last edited by nameless : 11-02-2012 at 12:27 AM.
nameless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 07:49 AM    (permalink
Jvig43
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dropping Brady Passes
Posts: 15,963
Reputation: 4511504
Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Nice post, welcome to the boards. Just to add, McCourty has been playing a bit at safety at least last game he did which they said was due to injuries but I'm not sure if thats 100% why.
__________________



Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD View Post
Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
Jvig43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 09:51 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,630
Reputation: 1636615
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I know I am clearly in the minority but I think McCourty at safety could work really well. The issue is there's problems at both CB and safety. Moving McCourty from CB to safety is like taking a bandage off your cut knee to put on your cut arm. However if Talib can come in and even just be on the field then this could be good. I have no doubt at all that Talib is a massive upgrade over any Pats CB not named McCourty who as was mentioned may now be a safety.

A defensive backfield in base of

--------------------------McCourty

----------------Chung

Dennard------------------------------------------------Talib

could be really good. Likewise in nickel

---------------------------McCourty

------------------Chung
-----------------------------------Gregory/Wilson/Cole

Dennard---------------------------------------------------Talib


Pretty much what the Talib signing indicates to me is that Pats may look to simplify everything in the secondary and hopefully play more cover 1 man with McCourty as the deep safety. Chung can't do it. I have seen nothing from Gregory that says he can do it. Wilson definitely can't do it. McCourty has unbelievable range and make up speed to be perfect in that role. Plus, it also takes away his biggest weakness which is turning his head because everything should always be in front of him
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 09:57 AM    (permalink
BradysKnee
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brady's Leg
Posts: 2,550
Reputation: 209221
BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BradysKnee is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I know I am clearly in the minority but I think McCourty at safety could work really well. The issue is there's problems at both CB and safety. Moving McCourty from CB to safety is like taking a bandage off your cut knee to put on your cut arm. However if Talib can come in and even just be on the field then this could be good. I have no doubt at all that Talib is a massive upgrade over any Pats CB not named McCourty who as was mentioned may now be a safety.

A defensive backfield in base of

--------------------------McCourty

----------------Chung

Dennard------------------------------------------------Talib

could be really good. Likewise in nickel

---------------------------McCourty

------------------Chung
-----------------------------------Gregory/Wilson/Cole

Dennard---------------------------------------------------Talib


Pretty much what the Talib signing indicates to me is that Pats may look to simplify everything in the secondary and hopefully play more cover 1 man with McCourty as the deep safety. Chung can't do it. I have seen nothing from Gregory that says he can do it. Wilson definitely can't do it. McCourty has unbelievable range and make up speed to be perfect in that role. Plus, it also takes away his biggest weakness which is turning his head because everything should always be in front of him
I think that's a great scenario. We need to maximize our talent and Mccourty is clearly playing better at safety. Dennard is really impressive as well, moreso sinced he missed a chunk of training camp. I didn't think anything special of him coming out but he has proven me wrong.

I think even going to some 3 safety looks with Mccourty Chung and Gregory/Wilson back there could be produtive.
__________________
Breed's QB Philosophy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breed View Post
At the end of the day...

Mobility > Accuracy
BradysKnee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:02 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,630
Reputation: 1636615
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradysKnee View Post
I think that's a great scenario. We need to maximize our talent and Mccourty is clearly playing better at safety. Dennard is really impressive as well, moreso sinced he missed a chunk of training camp. I didn't think anything special of him coming out but he has proven me wrong.

I think even going to some 3 safety looks with Mccourty Chung and Gregory/Wilson back there could be produtive.
Yeah I think the 3 safety look is something Belichick has tried to incorporate for the last few years but just hasn't had the talent to do so. He wants at least two guys who can play at the very least a deep half of the field. He also loves that "Money/Rover" type player. This is the guy who will walk down to the line of scrimmage and be an extra LB in the run game but be able to match up on TEs and slot guys in passing situations. He basically wants Rodney Harrison back. I really think Wilson is being primed for this role, however right now he is a liability in zone coverage. He is too aggressive and doesn't have great technique. However with coaching I see no reason why he can't develop into a decent player unless too much is asked of him
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:10 AM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,590
Reputation: 1789936
FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
What we had in the secondary simply wasn't acceptable. While this could be an enormous swing and miss, at the end of the day it's only a 4th round pick and we've cut a ton of these kinds of picks in the past 5 years. If Talib can come in and put together acceptable cornerback play for the remainder of the year, we already come out ahead in this deal IMO. Continuing with Arrington playing a majority of the snaps was not an acceptable solution, and would ultimately end with us going nowhere again. It might not make any difference, but at least they're acknowledging an obvious problem with a possible solution.
Well put.


I like the Talib move. As mentioned, we've been cutting our 3rd and 4th round picks at an alarming rate, anyway. Talib is clearly better than any talent we'd get with that pick, and could certainly be a long term solution to a pretty clear problem.

I'm surprised Wilson is taking so much heat. He is getting beat on double moves, which is pretty standard for rookies. Obviously he's a concern right now but I think he has a chance to be a very good player. He is always around the play, it seems.
__________________

Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs
FlyingElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:12 AM    (permalink
Wootylicous
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fernando Torres's bedroom
Posts: 12,700
Reputation: 2617987
Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Wootylicous is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I like this move. The last good 4th rounder I remember was Hernandez and Asante.
__________________

#MoncriefArmy
Wootylicous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:22 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,630
Reputation: 1636615
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The thing about the pick as well is this is a pretty deep team which is also pretty young. Realistically, best case scenario next year's draft gives them 5
players that make the roster.

A penetrating DT would be nice as would a strongside DE but neither are huge needs and I'm not sure a 4th round pick would upgrade either Myron Prior (if healthy) or Cunningham/Nink

An interior offensive lineman be it a OG or OC would be nice but once again not a huge need. Even with Mankins down and Waters not returning this offensive line is still one of the best in the league in both run and pass blocking. A 4th round pick adds depth with a potential to start but we are just as likely to pick another Rich Ohrnberger than a Dan Connolly.

A WR would help especially with Welker's contract up. However how many impact 4th round WRs are there in the league???

All in all, a 4th round pick is nice but I don't see how that pick could get us someone with the potential of Talib. If he keeps on the straight and narrow no one will care about this pick.

Who regrets the second the Pats gave up for Corey Dillon? What about the second for Welker? The fourth for Moss? If the guy turns out well and helps the team the pick is always worth it unless you give up the farm for a guy
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:33 AM    (permalink
Jvig43
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dropping Brady Passes
Posts: 15,963
Reputation: 4511504
Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Or he could turn out like Ocho and Fat Al. But I'm ok with the trade even if he does because at least were attempting to reconcile the problems we have right now. I love how young we are on defense and alot about our front seven, but I think we still need some major upgrades before it gets to where we want it to be. We still need help at Safety and Wilfork wont be around forever. I'd also like to give Jones some help on the left side. Ugh if only McCourty could play the way we envisioned he would.
__________________



Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD View Post
Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
Jvig43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,630
Reputation: 1636615
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
Or he could turn out like Ocho and Fat Al. But I'm ok with the trade even if he does because at least were attempting to reconcile the problems we have right now. I love how young we are on defense and alot about our front seven, but I think we still need some major upgrades before it gets to where we want it to be. We still need help at Safety and Wilfork wont be around forever. I'd also like to give Jones some help on the left side. Ugh if only McCourty could play the way we envisioned he would.
Oh for sure in fact right now I would say there is a bigger chance that Talib is in the same group as Haynesworth rather than Dillon or Moss when it's all said and done, however even though Fat Al didn't work out I don't recall many fans or analysts saying last year "Damn I wish we had that 5th round pick back".

Once you get past the second round (3rd if you're picking high) then the draft becomes a crap shoot. If you get a quality starter then you got a little lucky. If you get a potential #1 CB then you hit the jackpot
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:46 AM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,590
Reputation: 1789936
FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Fat Al was the only similar trade that I vehemently disagreed with. Trading these 4th round picks for clearly superior talent is always ok by me. Roll the dice. Unless it's a giant douchenozzle like Al who has no heart.
__________________

Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs
FlyingElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:49 AM    (permalink
Jvig43
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dropping Brady Passes
Posts: 15,963
Reputation: 4511504
Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm with you all the way on this one. I was very happy with the chance of value, even considering the potentiality of it not working out for us. Heres hoping that Dennards flashes work out for us and aren't just rookie luck like its appearing McCourtys season was two years ago.

I still
__________________



Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD View Post
Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
Jvig43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
nameless
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
Reputation: 19241
nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

You really can't put it all on personnel at this point. We've invested too much and gotten too little out of it to just put it that simply. Personnel is part of it, obviously...but you've got to at least put some of it on the coaching and scheme. It's not normal to draft as many defensive backs as we have and only come away with a few guys who are just serviceable at times. That's the best part about this move though. We're acknowledging that there's a problem. We finally made a similar admission with the pass rush a few seasons ago and things have only improved. Hopefully we start seeing similar trending with the defensive backs.

With regards to Talib specifically, perhaps the least discussed part of this trade so far from what I've read, there's some serious negativity coming out about the guy from the Tampa circles. I can certainly understand their perspective. The guy simply hasn't been a good citizen and they've had to deal with some serious locker room issues he's been a major part of for the past few seasons. He really does upgrade what we have here though. It's quick and dirty, but he ranked 7th in Football Outsiders cornerback rankings last season, surrendering 5.3 yards per pass on 45 targets. For a quick and uneven comparison, McCourty was target 94 times and gave up 10.6 yards per pass. So there's cause to be optimistic about what Talib can potentially do for us this year. Let's just hope he leaves his family problems and firearms in Texas.
nameless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 03:17 PM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: China
Posts: 13,612
Reputation: 1726070
Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Misc. thoughts on Talib:

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/...-on-talib.html
__________________
Matthew Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 04:39 PM    (permalink
Nalej
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,563
Reputation: 1094861
Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Nice write up, Matt. I really hope McCourty stays at CB long term and we get some better safety play. Wilson keeps getting beat deep and Ebner shouldn't be on the field yet.
__________________
-Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

Nalej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 05:02 PM    (permalink
Legacy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,044
Reputation: 103329
Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Pretty good analysis.

One thing:
Quote:
Talib is capable of pressing wide receivers at the line
Talib possesses the physical traits to press receivers at the line, but he is absolutely terrible at it. Any time you see Talib playing press coverage, it'll usually result in him getting beat deep.
__________________
Legacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 05:18 PM    (permalink
nameless
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
Reputation: 19241
nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
Nice write up, Matt. I really hope McCourty stays at CB long term and we get some better safety play. Wilson keeps getting beat deep and Ebner shouldn't be on the field yet.
I'm not really that down on Wilson. He's been beat over the top, but no worse than Chung has been consistently over the past few years. Even with his struggles, he's shown some likable traits. I think he gives us a little bit more range back there than Chung does.

That's not to say I'm super confident in him either. I just don't see him as much of a downgrade from what we're used to.
nameless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 05:21 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,776
Reputation: 1685610
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless View Post
I'm not really that down on Wilson. He's been beat over the top, but no worse than Chung has been consistently over the past few years. Even with his struggles, he's shown some likable traits. I think he gives us a little bit more range back there than Chung does.

That's not to say I'm super confident in him either. I just don't see him as much of a downgrade from what we're used to.
I think the way he's been beat is much different than Chung. For as bad as Chung has been this season, he never bites as badly as Wilson has the past few weeks. He's generally a step late, but Wilson has been beat deep in a cover 2 look which is unforgivable. I'd still take Chung over him on the back end when everyone is healthy. Wilson needs more seasoning.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
nameless
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
Reputation: 19241
nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nameless is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm really not sure I would. I'm as close to 50/50 on that one as I could be. Ultimately, I think we'll end up playing some kind of rotation in an attempt to maximize the strengths and weaknesses of the personnel. I would love to see one group really stick out and emerge as the best one, but I think we'll be throwing out a deficient mix no matter which way you slice it.

Going back to Wilson specifically, your point about being beat in different ways is a valid one. I'm just not sure it works in Chung's favor for me. Chung generally makes the right read and still isn't able to help in the passing game. I think it's reasonable to assume that he's just always going to be a liability back there at this point. I'm not sure I know that about Wilson yet. The sample size is just too small. While it's true that the mistakes he's made have lead directly to big plays and points at times, I don't think Chung being consistently late to the party and giving up consistent chunks of yardage is all that much better.
nameless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 07:55 PM    (permalink
descendency
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NC State
Posts: 7,990
Reputation: 898032
descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
I think the way he's been beat is much different than Chung. For as bad as Chung has been this season, he never bites as badly as Wilson has the past few weeks. He's generally a step late, but Wilson has been beat deep in a cover 2 look which is unforgivable. I'd still take Chung over him on the back end when everyone is healthy. Wilson needs more seasoning.
The play you are referencing is as much Dennards fault as Wilsons. That was one of the worst bumps at the LOS I've ever seen. It was a love tap.

edit: My problem with Talib is that he's an inconsistent pain in the ass (off the field) that is likely to be gone at the end of the season and we just gave up a 4th rounder to rent him for a playoff run. (because he won't be ready to really contribute for a few weeks)
__________________
I was gone for 2 months doing things I can't talk about. It might happen again, but that's just the nature of what I do and who I am.

Last edited by descendency : 11-02-2012 at 07:58 PM.
descendency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 07:32 AM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: China
Posts: 13,612
Reputation: 1726070
Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
I think the way he's been beat is much different than Chung. For as bad as Chung has been this season, he never bites as badly as Wilson has the past few weeks. He's generally a step late, but Wilson has been beat deep in a cover 2 look which is unforgivable. I'd still take Chung over him on the back end when everyone is healthy. Wilson needs more seasoning.
Wilson's flat-footed deep zone coverage is disturbing considering he had the same problem in college and it has yet to be fixed.
__________________
Matthew Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:28 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,630
Reputation: 1636615
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Wilson's flat-footed deep zone coverage is disturbing considering he had the same problem in college and it has yet to be fixed.
I think it's still early so it's not a huge worry for the future. I think when rookies come in it is hard enough for them to learn the playbook and deal with how to be a pro. Then in the second offseason they can really concentrate on technique flaws. It reminds me of something Belichick said. It was along the lines of if a guy doesn't improve you know what you have, however if a guy is learning to improve his technique it may take some time and some mistakes will be made, however at least you see they are bettering themselves and it is worth keeping them to have a look - I believe the player in question was Ryan Mallett. I don't think Wilson will have a great year next year either, because this isn't a quick fix in technique. However he has the tools to be a player and with good coaching (not a given with how our DBs have been coached) he could turn into a good starter
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 09:42 AM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: China
Posts: 13,612
Reputation: 1726070
Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think Wilson may be a better fit at strong safety; my latest mock draft (which can also be found in the mock drafts section) has the Patriots drafting T.J. McDonald in the first round. Unfortunately, three other safety prospects ranked below McDonald (Elam, Lester, Vaccaro) seem like players the Patriots would like.
__________________
Matthew Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
Don Vito
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston/Ole Miss
Posts: 8,587
Reputation: 1535269
Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I am a functional experienced who is interested in your all goal handbags.
__________________


Feed Moncrief
Don Vito is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.