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Old 11-02-2012, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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???
If that's the case then his masking agents are the absolute best.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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If that's the case then his masking agents are the absolute best.
Good thing they don't test for HGH!


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Honestly, I don't see his particular skill set as being that valuable. He's not a great rusher. Coverage isn't nearly as valued (a good coverage backer can be gotten much later). His overall game definitely could make him a valuable LB, but if he's not an edge rusher, he likely won't command a top 20 pick - especially not with the volume of LBs that will be in this class.
I understand what you're saying in concept. Kind of the same thing with Barrett Jones where he can play every position and does everything well but doesn't do one thing exceptionally well (though that's more acceptable for an OLineman than a pass rusher). However, I don't agree about him not being a great pass rusher. Because of how they move him around and ask him to cover, he isn't rushing the passer on nearly the same percentage of plays as some of the other top pass rushers. If he had his hand in the dirt rushing the passer every play (or standing up attacking like Jarvis Jones), I really believe he would be one of the more productive pass rushers in college football. He has all the tools and ability to be a great pass rusher. Admittedly, he does lack any kind of bullrush. I've heard people say he doesn't really have a counter-move which I can understand but I tend to think that's because he's usually a wide stand up LB in an odd front (not to say he doesn't ever get opportunities as a DE in a 40 front), there is a greater emphasis on contain in that role because there is no LB behind him which limits his ability to make inside moves and risk losing contain. It's not like he's too stiff to change directions and come back inside. The guy still has 5 sacks in 7.5 games just from being so athletic and flexible turning the corner. Just trying to point out that stats (sack numbers) aren't always indicative of pass rush ability. We need to be cognitive that a player's role within their defense affects can their opportunities as a pass rusher.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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The guy is incredible. Anybody who liked Chandler Jones last year should be flipping out about Dion Jordan. He is a more productive version of Jones at the college level.

My only two worries with Jordan, and they aren't huge, is that he gets good, not great bend coming around the edge, and that sometimes he gets locked up because he just forgets to use his hands. Motor is phenomenal though, he is very strong (don't let his ht/wt ratio throw you off), and his athletic ability is through the roof. He operates so well in space.

This is an awesome class for needing defensive lineman. Jordan is one of four elite talents, and their is plenty of other options in the 1st and 2nd after Star, Hankins, Jarvis, and Jordan. Teams with their future QB and picking top 10 will be stoked (Panthers).
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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He's definitely not given the same responsibilities or techniques as a blitzing LB that a true 40 front DE would be given. He just tries to blow by and rip/dip under OTs, which either leads to a sack or a step up. When asked to bull rush, he simply doesn't have the strength though he does a good job holding the edge. He's got good speed too, so it's not like he has no pass rush - but I just wonder how many NFL teams will see him as a subpackage rusher, which is what gets drafted high.

If someone sees him as a DE/OLB conversion prospect, all bets are off. He could go top 15, because he has an ideal frame and athleticism. I'm just not sold on that idea.

The reason Bruce Irvin went that high is because of his special talent as a rusher.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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My only two worries with Jordan, and they aren't huge, is that he gets good, not great bend coming around the edge, and that sometimes he gets locked up because he just forgets to use his hands. Motor is phenomenal though, he is very strong (don't let his ht/wt ratio throw you off), and his athletic ability is through the roof. He operates so well in space.
Really? I think that's one of his strengths as a pass rusher and am always impressed by how well he bends for his height.

He's not powerful per se but I agree with you that he does have very good functional strength.

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Old 11-02-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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The guy is incredible. Anybody who liked Chandler Jones last year should be flipping out about Dion Jordan. He is a more productive version of Jones at the college level.
I don't see this at all. Chandler Jones is incredibly powerful with limited athleticism (not for a DE really, but for a LB/S type). This guy seems to have legit athleticism with limited power.

If anything, he's closer to Bruce Irvin than Chandler Jones. Whitney Mercilus may be a better comparison or even Shea McClellin.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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It's like Julian Peterson crossed with a (very young) Simeon Rice.
I think Julian Peterson of the early 2000s 49ers is a perfect comparison.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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I don't think he's as good of a prospect as Mathias Kiwanuka, but I could see him ending up with a somewhat similar career.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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The guy is incredible. Anybody who liked Chandler Jones last year should be flipping out about Dion Jordan. He is a more productive version of Jones at the college level.

My only two worries with Jordan, and they aren't huge, is that he gets good, not great bend coming around the edge, and that sometimes he gets locked up because he just forgets to use his hands. Motor is phenomenal though, he is very strong (don't let his ht/wt ratio throw you off), and his athletic ability is through the roof. He operates so well in space.

This is an awesome class for needing defensive lineman. Jordan is one of four elite talents, and their is plenty of other options in the 1st and 2nd after Star, Hankins, Jarvis, and Jordan. Teams with their future QB and picking top 10 will be stoked (Panthers).
I really do not like that comparison to be honest. Jordan may end up being measured at a similar height to Jones, however he is about 20lbs lighter than him.

Strengths to Chandler Jones' game are pretty much the opposite of Jordan's and vice versa. Jones plays with a tremendous functional strength and rushed almost solely with a bull rush. Jones as the prospect did not showcase the pass rush moves he has as a pro. Whereas Jordan wins on the edge with pure speed. The one similarity I see is that both guys don't play with great leverage due ti their size. Jones has found ways to get round that as a pro with excellent hand usage and lower body strength. It is yet to be seen if Jordan can do similar.

Jordan on the other hand is just such a fluid athlete. His strengths are that he can be so versatile. He has shown he can not only drop into coverage but he can be damn good at it. Chandler Jones didn't drop at Syracuse and in fact it was a big concern many analysts had of him if a team asked him to play stand up LB. Now don't get me wrong, when he has done it for the Pats he hasn't embarrassed himself but he just isn't on the same planet as a coverage guy that Jordan is.

All in all I think they are different players and will be different players in the NFL. I'm not sure if I like Jordan as a down end, unless in Philly or Detroit, and likewise I wouldn't want Jones as a full time stand up backer
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Something to remember about Jordan is that he came to Oregon as a WR but was switched to DE/LB after his second season. This is just his third year playing on the D side and in my opinion he is just starting to come into his own. Good chance to go in the first round.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like manny Lawson
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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If someone sees him as a DE/OLB conversion prospect, all bets are off. He could go top 15, because he has an ideal frame and athleticism. I'm just not sold on that idea.
I don't think it would be a conversion project. Oregon's defense (and Jordan's responsibilities in it) are much more like a 3-4 defense and a 3-4 OLB than they are like a 4-3 defense and a DE. Jordan plays all over the field.

I think the conversion project would be if a 4-3 team drafted him and asked him to play a traditional DE role.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like manny Lawson
I can see why you would think that and I agree in a sense but I think that is worst case scenario. If he doesn't turn out to be a great pass rusher there are still plenty of other things he can do to contribute. People have higher hopes for him coming out than him becoming another Manny Lawson, but when Lawson was coming out there were some similar questions. Great tools and pretty well rounded, but will he be great at what we really want him to do (rush the QB)?

A lot of good points are brought up in this thread. Someone said earlier if a team sees him as an edge rusher type, with all of his ability he could be a top 15 pick. If a team views him as a Kiwi or Lawson type player for their team he probably won't go that high.

I think there is a lot to like about Jordan. When someone mentioned the correlations between Jordan and Chandler Jones I agree with that too, but not because they are very similar as players. It is more because of that "ball of clay" philosophy, there is a lot of talent there but the next level fit could go in a few different directions. It is all how a team wants to use him.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Watching him, I'm seeing a lot of the things I saw watching Jason Pierre-Paul a few years ago. Which is kind of strange, because I didn't particularly like JPP as a prospect; I thought he was really raw and people were just projecting his NFL success off of his workout numbers. I see a similar style of play with Jordan - they've both got huge wingspans and a lot of the damage they do off of the edge has to do with how much range they have, how big of an area they affect because they're such lengthy players. Don't see a varied pass rush repertoire, but the natural bend is there. Also like JPP, I think Jordan looks like he has a lot of natural strength. One of the things I balked at a little was his being under 250 lbs at 6'7", but he looks bigger than that and he's not getting pushed around on the field. He also looks really smooth in coverage, which obviously isn't the most critical trait for a pass rusher, but nonetheless he's a really smooth athlete.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I only see Mingo and Montgomery ahead of him on my Big Board and see him as a top 15 prospect. He'll go pretty high in the draft without a doubt.
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Watching him, I'm seeing a lot of the things I saw watching Jason Pierre-Paul a few years ago. Which is kind of strange, because I didn't particularly like JPP as a prospect; I thought he was really raw and people were just projecting his NFL success off of his workout numbers. I see a similar style of play with Jordan - they've both got huge wingspans and a lot of the damage they do off of the edge has to do with how much range they have, how big of an area they affect because they're such lengthy players. Don't see a varied pass rush repertoire, but the natural bend is there. Also like JPP, I think Jordan looks like he has a lot of natural strength. One of the things I balked at a little was his being under 250 lbs at 6'7", but he looks bigger than that and he's not getting pushed around on the field. He also looks really smooth in coverage, which obviously isn't the most critical trait for a pass rusher, but nonetheless he's a really smooth athlete.
This. I think he'll show up at the combine in the 265 range. He;s pretty strong, and has the frame to add to that. I see definately see the same comparison.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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On a sidenote they'll need him at 100% if they have any chance of beating Alabama.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't look 6'7" based on the YT video above. 6'5" looks closer to accurate... or Oregon has a ton of really tall players on their team.
Nah, i walked past him the other day with my friend who's a legit 6'5" possibly going on 6'6" and he was definitely taller than him. Im 6'3" so i had a decent vantage point of it. If he's shorter than 6'6" i'll be REALLY surprised. Oregon has been pretty accurate on how tall people have been in past combines.

And my friend is a assistant OLB coach here. And other than the fact that its just because they freaking can, he said the main purpose of lining him up at boundary/Slot CB, is because it takes him out of the accountability of the OL because they only look at guys in the box most times. So when they rush him from there their hoping to get him on a clear run at the QB.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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This. I think he'll show up at the combine in the 265 range. He;s pretty strong, and has the frame to add to that. I see definately see the same comparison.
I doubt it. I think he'll be right around 255, just to show that he can gain weight but still keep his athleticism. 6'6" 255 isn't a bad height/weight for a pass rusher, especially if he has the natural strength and punch that Jordan has.
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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Yes please as a DE/LB for the Jets.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:02 AM    (permalink
coltDraftnik
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You guys convinced me, he should be a Colt. Yes, he is a project, but he is a prospect with LEVERAGE and a non-stop motor.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:54 AM    (permalink
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A lot of very good points here, both for and against him being a very high pick. I would like to add a couple.

Someone suggested that a lot of his strong attributes do not show up on the stat sheet, and I could not agree more. I think the fact that he has been used in coverage a lot in college will be very attractive to teams at the next level, especially if he is asked to bulk up. Maybe he is not an every down player his rookie year, but how valuable would he be to a team like Carolina or Tampa when they play great TE's like Gonzalez and Graham twice a year? I believe that with the evolution of the TE in the NFL, there will also be a coverage player to follow. I call it the "cornerbacker." Tall enough to cover a TE, quick enough to handle the occasional mismatch with a small RB or slot receiver, and enough long speed to stay with a deep pattern if necessary.

On the other side, he does lack polish when it comes to passrush moves, but he clearly looks comfortable with going after the QB. I agree that 20 lbs would be a great asset to him.

More than anything, though, from what I have seen he strikes me as a very smart player. So often in college you see players who do not have the capacity to analyze the game as they play it. Jordan has excellent recognition skills and is very much in control of his area of responsibility. I don't see him out of position often, if at all. You don't see big plays where he should have been.

I think most DC's would love to have a player like him. Gifted physically, extremely athletic, intelligent and coachable. 9th pick/Rams:-)
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